Lancia Motor Club Forum Banner
12 November, 2019, 06:17:38 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Fried Fulvia anyone?  (Read 4259 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
lee69
Guest
« on: 25 July, 2008, 09:36:20 PM »

It's not been a good day.

This morning I took the 2C out for a run and to do the banking and some other odd jobs.  On the way home, the car spluttered once which was immediately followed by a strong odour of burning.  I managed to get off the road, into a layby.  Now I had accrid smoke billowing from the dash, front grille and bonnet edges.  Fire extinguisher poised I opened the bonnet to find a number of cables smoking and melting.  A good spray of the powder extinguisher soon cooled things down, the smoke subsided and I managed to disconnect one of the battery terminals. 

The plastic coating on both the throttle and choke cables had melted and the hot throttle cable had subsequently melted into the brake fluid reservoir.  Hence I've lost all pressure in the brake system.  It looks like there's a disconnected/broken earth cable which has resulted in something electrical occurring. I have no idea what's caused this to happen.  Has anyone experienced similar?

The AA towed me home a couple of hours later.  A call to the insurance company tomorrow to see if they'll cover it.

Photos on flickr (at the bottom of my Fulvia set) if you'd like a look http://flickr.com/photos/80688018@N00/sets/72157606371734891/ Cry

Lee - still getting the smell of burning plastic out my nostrils
Logged
Neil Lewis
Guest
« Reply #1 on: 25 July, 2008, 10:50:47 PM »

So if I read you right, the engine was earting through the throttle and choke cables.

Theres supposed to be at least three earth cable on a Fulvia engine but, in my experience, the crimped on ring connectros tend to snap off with vibration fatigue.  Mine cooked a few electrical cables so I fitted one of those big braided earth type cables to my Fulvia just to be sure.

Neil
Logged
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 5730



« Reply #2 on: 25 July, 2008, 11:19:18 PM »

Hi Lee,
Sorry to hear your bad news.
I've just been out to "Fay" with a torch to see if I could relate to what may have caused your problem.
Not being an electrician it looks to me like you've had a dead short and it's gone to earth using any metal cable it could, does this mean that the battery to engine earth had failed at some point Huh? in one of the photos it looks like the the Battery/Engine earth may have rubbed through by the battery trayas it appears to be completely broken?
Have you had a look at the fuse box? what state is it in?

Your battery to engine earth seems to be a considerably smaller diameter than that fitted to "Fay", it also bolts to the bellhousing in a different place although I can't see that in itself that would be a problem.

As I've now fitted a Lucas Sports Coil that was necessary when I put on the electronic ignition trigger & did away with the old coil and ballast resistor; I have a lot less wiring than your 2c around that part of the engine , there also seems to be some changes that were probably done when the 1300cc engine was fitted.

Brian
8227 Cry

If you need any wiring let me know as I have a harness or part of one amongst my spares
 
« Last Edit: 25 July, 2008, 11:24:07 PM by fay66 » Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
Jai Sharma
Megaposter
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 354


« Reply #3 on: 26 July, 2008, 06:54:28 AM »

I remember something similar where a Fulvia I had was using the melting throttle cable as an earth.
I have a plastic brake fluid reservoir /bits if you need it (S2)
Jai
Logged
Scarpia
Lapsed
Rebel Poster
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 723



« Reply #4 on: 26 July, 2008, 07:10:29 AM »

thank goodness it wasn't worse, these things can spread quickly.

I don't want to add to your misery but you may need to check your alternator/generator relays haven't been damaged and the charging circuit still works afterwards. I had the same thing on my aprilia when I forgot to tighten the negative lead on the battery. The cable bounced loose going over a bump and resulted in a cooked generator.

Logged
rogerelias
Rebel Poster
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 934


MY 1600HF IN HEARTBEAT GARAGE


« Reply #5 on: 26 July, 2008, 09:13:00 AM »

Lee sorry to hear of you taking up smoking, when i was an AA Patrol in the distant past, ford sierra's used to do the same thing very often ,to the extent that i used to carry at least 2 throttle and clutch cables in my van. 99% sure that the broken earth, as neil rightly says would be the culprit, simply put, if the earth is broken all of the amps being used has to go to earth the easiest way, straight down the cable centres. Did your starter seem slower than usual before this happened?Regards Roger.
Logged

FULVIA 1600HF LUSSO
1958 VELOCETTE MAC
Triumph Bonneville t120v 1972
1968 MGC ROADSTER
1958 Series 2 Appia berlina
lee69
Guest
« Reply #6 on: 26 July, 2008, 09:56:27 AM »

Thanks for the comments and kind offers of bits.  The car started as normal prior to the incident.

My insurers couldn't find my policy number when I phoned them this morning, but fingers crossed they'll sort it out.  If not you're all invited to a Fulvia rewiring party at my house at some point in the future!

Lee
Logged
FulviaFiend
Guest
« Reply #7 on: 26 July, 2008, 10:37:13 AM »

I sympathise with you entirely, a broken engine earth problem caused a similar short across throttle and other cables on my first Fulvia, unfortunately this caused a meltdown on the fuel pipe feed to the carbs, you can guess what happened next!

Glad you managed to stop and prevent too much serious damage, I would agree with previous comments all owners should regularly check and if need upgrade earth connections. These cars are getting old now and the chance of not having any corrosion problems on electrical connections is very slim…

Hope you get the car up and running again soon!

FF
Logged
angelorange
Megaposter
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 317



WWW
« Reply #8 on: 26 July, 2008, 03:17:00 PM »

Same problem many moons ago with my Fiat 127 Sport of 70s vintage. I was driving back to Bedford at the time when she caught fire.  Pulled into lay-by but had no extinguisher. It was a very hot day - clutch cable was burning as the earthing strap had rubbed through on the driveshaft.  In the end i looked in the boot (had been shopping) and ended up putting the fire out with a couple of cans of cheap lager ! No i am not kidding!

This was before mobile phones were the Shocked vogue and I went to the nearest village - no phone box and the residents were none to helpful. Eventually a chap in a Mini (the original model) stopped and gave me a lift to nearest phone box (Cranfield Aerodrome)!

RAC then towed me home.
Logged

I'm entitled to my ignorance!
nistri
Megaposter
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 247


« Reply #9 on: 28 July, 2008, 01:22:16 PM »

Hi Lee,

Very sorry to hear of your problem with the 2C. I agree that there was probably something wrong with the earth lead/connections/etc. However, it is important to recall that, on many Fulvias that have gone through various services/repairs and so on, the earth wires which actually ground the engine and gearbox are often missing or misplaced. Please note that the engine bellhousing must be grounded to the gearbox (originally via a black wire), the sump must be grounded to the engine crankcase (again via a black earth wire). The gearbox,  of course, is connected to the battery earth via a fat cable. Again, it is common that this lead is in poor conditions. It is useful to remove it and clean it to bright metal. If the engine is not grounded to the gearbox, the electrical circuit will go to ground only via the choke and throttle cables...
Good luck
Andrea

think
Logged

Andrea Nistri

Ardea S2
Appia S2
Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
Fulvia Coupe 1.3 S
lee69
Guest
« Reply #10 on: 28 July, 2008, 04:16:51 PM »

Well, they managed to trace my policy which is a start!  Norwich Union are dealing with my claim and have already contacted me to arrange an inspection.  I spoke with the inspector tonight and he sounds like he knows what caused it - as identified here - the earth.  Hopefully I'll have some news tomorrow.

Lee

Logged
sparehead3
Administrator
Permanent resident
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2636



« Reply #11 on: 28 July, 2008, 07:52:51 PM »

Sorry about the problem Lee - and glad it looks like it'll be sorted Smiley

Without wishing to sound too stupid could someone enlighten me (separate thread if you like Smiley ) as to why cars need to be earthed and how you earth something on rubber tires (which I assume insulate things!)

Steve
Logged

Regards,
Steve Pilgrim
No.13575

1993 Delta HF integrale Evo II (Hammond's Icon - No.4)

http://www.lanciadb.co.uk/
FulviaFiend
Guest
« Reply #12 on: 28 July, 2008, 10:03:12 PM »

In reply,

'Earthing' as a description is misleading, when used in motoring terms its relates to a connection to the negative (or sometimes positive) terminal of the battery or alternator/dynamo, many cars use the term in relation to the fact that most of the bodywork of the vehicle is generally used as a negative terminal or connection to the negative side of the battery. In essence the entire vehicle is used as part of the electrical circuit, but due to the nature of metals and oxidisation (corrosion/rust) these connections can be interrupted, and a connection to the negative terminal of the battery can be lost through the preferred route causing a short circuit (or re-routing of the electrical current).
This shorting of the preferred system can lead to too high a current been transmitted though cable systems (clutch/throttle in this case), this high current can result in a over heating of the cables and result in melting of insulting plastics and any other contacted surfaces, and possibly result in fire.

Hope this explains a little…?

FF
Logged
sparehead3
Administrator
Permanent resident
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2636



« Reply #13 on: 29 July, 2008, 10:56:48 AM »

Yep, that makes a lot more sense to me now !
Logged

Regards,
Steve Pilgrim
No.13575

1993 Delta HF integrale Evo II (Hammond's Icon - No.4)

http://www.lanciadb.co.uk/
Lima
Megaposter
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 298


Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows.


WWW
« Reply #14 on: 29 July, 2008, 09:44:00 PM »

Oh dear Lee, you're not having  much luck  Undecided  Hope all turns out okay in the end
Logged

Lima

1968 Lancia Fulvia Coupe (Rallye)
1995 Lancia Delta Integrale (Evo2)
2001 Lancia Y (Cosmopolitan)
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Contact the Forum Administrator

LMC Forum copyright © 2007 - 2018 Lancia Motor Club Ltd

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines