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Author Topic: Fuel system - making compatible with E10 petrol  (Read 378 times)
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andyps
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« on: 18 August, 2018, 11:05:55 PM »

As my car has been off the road for nearly 30 years before I put it back in use it makes sense to replace fuel system hoses (I'm still working on brakes at the moment though). I was thinking that as the ethanol content in petrol is increasing and older cars aren't designed for it maybe I could change necessary components so it would be OK when I get to the fuel system.

Has anyone got any experience of this and know what would need changing on a Series 2 1300? Partly thought it whilst in France last month where most of the 95RON petrol is now E10 - I want to have some trips to France in the Fulvia when it is sorted so compatibility would be helpful.
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stanley sweet
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« Reply #1 on: 19 August, 2018, 12:10:05 PM »

I live in France and have a series 2 1.3s. I haven't changed any part of the fuel system and use 95 octane pumps with Millers VSP lead replacement. I thought it was the 98 fuel which is E10? Anyway, whichever, I avoid the one marked E10. I don't have hardened valve seats which is why I use the VSP and haven't had any problems so far after 12 years.When I was living in the UK I used Castrol Valvemaster Plus. The Millers is supposed to counteract the effects of modern fuel as well as protecting the valve seats. I chose the Millers and the Castrol because years ago they both passed stringent tests carried out by the Federation of Historic Motor Vehicles.
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1971 Fulvia 1.3S 'Leggera'  1999 Lancia Lybra 1.9JTD LX SW
Richard Fridd
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« Reply #2 on: 19 August, 2018, 05:57:30 PM »

Is it true that alluminium head post WW2 valve inserts are sufficiently hard to cope with unleaded petrol? I have read this more than once.


* valve%20seats%20article.jpg (1159.53 KB, 2560x1920 - viewed 5 times.)
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Richard Nevison Fridd
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« Reply #3 on: 19 August, 2018, 06:19:52 PM »

Is it true that alluminium head post WW2 valve inserts are sufficiently hard to cope with unleaded petrol? I have read this more than once.
Richard don't know about another models but series 1 Fulvia's have no problems coping with unleaded fuel, I've been using straight unleaded fuel in Fay for the past 15 years, and about
 30, 000 miles with no problems, not sure and with conflicting opinions, for her first 2-3 years on the road I used Millers VSP, as Stan said there was extensive testing early on after we lost leaded fuel, and only a very few products passed the stringent tests, miller's VSP and the castrol one were included.
What amazes me is that people still get away with claiming all sorts of benefits, and selling the pellets that you drop in the petrol tank, which completely failed to prove they were of any benefit whatsoever.
Brian
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stanley sweet
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« Reply #4 on: 19 August, 2018, 07:26:08 PM »

I've always been under the impression that 1300's need some sort of protection but 1600's were OK from the moment they were produced.  I don't know enough about the S1's and their valve inserts.
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1971 Fulvia 1.3S 'Leggera'  1999 Lancia Lybra 1.9JTD LX SW
andyps
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« Reply #5 on: 20 August, 2018, 09:56:22 AM »

I'm not too concerned about the unleaded issue as I know it is easy to add a suitable replacement for that. It's the ethanol content I was thinking of as I'm sure it will be increased in the UK in the future. Whilst I was in France in the summer most places I bought fuel had 95 octane with 10% ethanol but 98 octane with lower amounts (I assume) but that could change in the future to more ethanol.

I've found this - https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2009/09/02/safe-at-the-pump - which is quite helpful. I'm planning to replace all hoses anyway so seems I need to ensure they aren't natural rubber and possibly replacing gaskets etc is also a good plan - I'm not rushing to put E10 fuel in but might as well make sure the car is OK with it if needed. I also found this product which could be useful - https://www.frost.co.uk/ethomix-corrosion-inhibitor-additive-ethanol-protection.html
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lancialulu
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« Reply #6 on: 20 August, 2018, 10:36:15 AM »

I see more and more E85 in France....

E85 (Super Ethanol): A mixture of ethanol (70% to 85%) and gasoline/petrol (essence) (15% to 30%, depending on the season). This fuel may not be suitable for most gasoline/petrol-powered cars.

I wonder what runs this fuel??

As an aside Sarah &I competed in the Cotswolds Classic Drive this weekend which measures the economy of your car against your estimate. I had to fill the car nearest to the start (Esso Supreme) then drive a tulip nav route for c 100 miles up and down dale. What I noticed was the car ran a lot worse than normal and the stumble point inherent on 1600HF's at c2200 rpm had increased to 2000-2700 rpm and the car would not pull at those revs in 3rd 4th or 5th up hills. When we finished the car was refilled with Harvest 95 (no choice as this was the end of the rally where fuel is use is measured), and we pinked and stumbled our way home to Colchester (160 miles). I now have a full tank of shell Vpower and the stumble has all but disappeared (it is there ll the time in the background but is happy to be driven through). Ethanol content certainly affects the tuning of the car!
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andyps
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« Reply #7 on: 20 August, 2018, 11:02:13 AM »

I think E85 does require a different stage of tune, I think some cars can be converted but effectively need to switch between two settings for fuel types - I'm not thinking of going down that route with the Fulvia!

Interesting how much difference fuel types can make, I try to avoid supermarket fuel in my cars (other than Tesco Momentum) as they are generally lower quality, or at least, don't have the additives which the main brands use.
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neil-yaj396
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« Reply #8 on: 23 August, 2018, 06:54:47 AM »

I think E85 does require a different stage of tune, I think some cars can be converted but effectively need to switch between two settings for fuel types - I'm not thinking of going down that route with the Fulvia!

Interesting how much difference fuel types can make, I try to avoid supermarket fuel in my cars (other than Tesco Momentum) as they are generally lower quality, or at least, don't have the additives which the main brands use.

Some argue that supermarket fuel, with a decent additive of your own, is the best option for older cars, as the additives in higher quality fuel are aimed at modern engines and can theoretically damage old fuel lines etc.
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1979 1300 Beta Coupe, 1983 2000ie Beta Coupe, 2014 Ypsilon 1.2 S Series Momo
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