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Author Topic: Fulvia inlet valves  (Read 2356 times)
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rogerelias
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MY 1600HF IN HEARTBEAT GARAGE


« on: 14 January, 2017, 05:07:04 PM »

Hello all.Question.  What are the inlet valves on the Fulvia 1600HF made of, as they are not magnetic   Huh? Huh?
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FULVIA 1600HF LUSSO
1958 VELOCETTE MAC
Triumph Bonneville t120v 1972
1968 MGC ROADSTER
1958 Series 2 Appia berlina
davidwheeler
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« Reply #1 on: 15 January, 2017, 11:23:46 AM »

Stainless steels with a few percent nickel are not magnetic so I suggest some sort of iron/nickel alloy.
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
rogerelias
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MY 1600HF IN HEARTBEAT GARAGE


« Reply #2 on: 15 January, 2017, 06:04:30 PM »

Thanks David, so has probably had new valves at some point . presuming they were not this material from new?
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FULVIA 1600HF LUSSO
1958 VELOCETTE MAC
Triumph Bonneville t120v 1972
1968 MGC ROADSTER
1958 Series 2 Appia berlina
lancialulu
Press Officer
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« Reply #3 on: 15 January, 2017, 07:17:55 PM »

Found on the interweb..... Looks like you have Austenitic material.....

There are essentially two basic types of steel used to make valves. One is “martensitic” steel and the other is “austenitic” steel. The difference is in the microstructure of the steel and how the various ingredients in the alloy interact when the molten steel is cast and cooled. This affects not only the hardness and strength of the steel, but also its corrosion resistance and magnetic properties. As a rule, martensitic steels are magnetic while austenitic steels are non-magnetic.
In martensitic steel, the steel is “quenched” (cooled) very quickly from a molten state to freeze the grain structure in a particular configuration. Under a microscope, the grain structure has a needle-like (acicular) appearance. This makes the steel very hard but also brittle. Reheating and cooling the steel (a process called “tempering”) allows some of the martensite crystals to rearrange themselves into other grain structures which are not as hard or brittle. By carefully controlling the heat treatment and quenching process, the hardness and tensile strength of the steel can be fine tuned to achieve the desired properties.
Steel alloys with a martensitic grain structure typically have a high hardness at room temperature (35 to 55 Rockwell C) after tempering, which improves strength and wear resistance. These characteristics make this type of steel a good choice for applications such as engine valves.

But as the temperature goes up, martensitic steel loses hardness and strength. Above 1000° F or so, low carbon alloy martensitic steel loses too much hardness and strength to hold up very well. For this reason, low carbon alloy martensitic steel is only used for intake valves, not exhaust valves. Intake valves are cooled by the incoming air/fuel mixture and typically run around 800° to 1000° F, while exhaust valves are constantly blasted by hot exhaust gases and usually operate at 1200 to 1450° F or higher.
To increase high temperature strength and corrosion resistance, various elements may be added to the steel. On some passenger car and light truck engines, the original equipment intake valves are 1541 carbon steel with manganese added to improve corrosion resistance. For higher heat applications, a 8440 alloy may be used that contains chromium to add high temperature strength. For many late model engines (and performance engines), the intake valves are made of an alloy called “Silchrome 1” (Sil 1) that contains 8.5 percent chromium.
Exhaust valves may be made from a martensitic steel with chrome and silicon alloys, or a two-piece valve with a stainless steel head and martensitic steel stem. On applications that have higher heat requirements, a stainless martensitic alloy may be used. Stainless steel alloys, as a rule, contain 10 percent or more chromium.
The most popular materials for exhaust valves, however, are austenitic stainless steel alloys such as 21-2N and 21-4N. Austenite forms when steel is heated above a certain temperature which varies depending on the alloy. For many steels, the austenitizing temperature ranges from 1600° to 1675° F, which is about the temperature where hot steel goes from red to nearly white). The carbon in the steel essentially dissolves and coexists with the iron in a special state where the crystals have a face-centered cubic structure. By adding other trace metals to the alloy such as nitrogen, nickel and manganese, the austenite can be maintained as the metal cools to create a steel that has high strength properties at elevated temperatures. Nitrogen also combines with carbon to form “carbonitrides” that add strength and hardness. Chromium is added to increase corrosion resistance. The end product is an alloy that may not be as hard at room temperature as a martensitic steel, but is much stronger at the high temperatures at which exhaust valves commonly operate.
Though austenitic stainless steel can handle high temperatures very well, the steel is softer than martensitic steel at lower temperatures and cannot be hardened by heat treating. To improve wear, a hardened wafer tip may be welded to the tip of the valve stem. Or, on some applications an austenitic stainless valve head may be welded to a martensitic stem to create a two-piece valve that has a long wearing stem and heat resistant head. The only disadvantage with a two-piece valve is that it doesn’t cool as well as a one-piece valve. The junction where the two different steels are welded together forms a barrier that slows heat transfer up the stem.
21-2N alloy has been around since the 1950s and is an austenitic stainless steel with 21 percent chromium and 2 percent nickel. It holds up well in stock exhaust valve applications and costs less than 21-4N because it contains less nickel. 21-4N is also an austenitic stainless steel with the same chromium content but contains almost twice as much nickel (3.75 percent), making it a more expensive alloy. 21-4N is usually considered to be the premium material for performance exhaust valves. 21-4N steel also meets the “EV8” Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) specification for exhaust valves.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
Jay
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« Reply #4 on: 16 January, 2017, 02:01:53 PM »

This reminds me of a program a few years back on Metallurgy (must be somewhere on the net), which ended up with RR casting turbine blades in one crystal, called surprising enough ‘single crystal casting’. So no crystal structure meaning super hard and no expansion with heat, as it’s the gaps and movement between the crystals which makes metals expand.

That’s the steal valves should be made of.   
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Julian Wood, Kingston, London
stanley sweet
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WWW
« Reply #5 on: 16 January, 2017, 06:48:17 PM »

Yes - I remember that. The blades grow almost organically so there are no flaws to gradually increase and cause failure.
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1971 Fulvia 1.3S 'Leggera'  1999 Lancia Lybra 1.9JTD LX SW
rogerelias
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Posts: 951


MY 1600HF IN HEARTBEAT GARAGE


« Reply #6 on: 18 January, 2017, 09:14:00 PM »

The exhaust valves are magnetic  Huh? Huh?
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FULVIA 1600HF LUSSO
1958 VELOCETTE MAC
Triumph Bonneville t120v 1972
1968 MGC ROADSTER
1958 Series 2 Appia berlina
davidwheeler
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Posts: 1203



« Reply #7 on: 18 January, 2017, 09:43:29 PM »

Well, all that for nothing - but a fascinating article on steel metallurgy.   Now, what about sodium cooled exhaust valves as in the Aurelia?  I've always wondered how they were made.
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
the.cern
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« Reply #8 on: 19 January, 2017, 04:20:42 PM »

Well, all that for nothing - but a fascinating article on steel metallurgy.   Now, what about sodium cooled exhaust valves as in the Aurelia?  I've always wondered how they were made.

This is the best I could find to answer your question David. I had not realised that the sodium does not completely fill the void in the valve nor that the sodium would liquify!!! We learn a little every day!!!

                         Andy
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