Dilambda For Sale

[Dilambdaman]

No, not mine!

The one time Victor Lane car to be auctioned at the Bonhams December sale.

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&screen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=3759750&iSaleNo=15348

[fay66]

Had me worried there for a moment Robin
It looks wonderful and hopefully it should be well sorted if victor Lane owned it.
Wish I could afford it and join you.

Brian
8227

[Scarpia]

If only those prices were in euro's ...

Looks very nice, I'd have it tomorrow if I thought the wife wouldn't notice it in the garage ,(I suspect she just might.)

I'm curious what it will fetch.Whilst it looks a good car and is undoubtably desirable due to its relative rarity,  I suspect most people laying out that sort of cash will be looking for a Lambda. That might keep the price down a little but that said , its a magnificent vehicle and there are enough collectors with money out there that will buy to fill a gap in their collection.
The message is with these things , buy when you see what you like as you usually kick yourself later for not doing so.

[rogerelias]

Heres an idea. How about we use The Ted Bates money and buy this, and get the club a company car. i.e. a Dilambda. Thoughts please.

[Scarpia]

the thought had also crossed my mind. I didn't like to mention it as I was worried someone would use the "on the horns of a dilambda" joke again with reference to the ensuing club debate...

[Dilambdaman]

In my book, way more desirable than a Lambda. But then I'm just a little bit biased!

Joking aside, I can honestly say, that much as I love the Lambda I would not swop my car for one. IMHO the Dilambda is a much easier car to own, most of the shortcomings with the Lambda having been engineered out.  Spares and information are the only real problem areas. The major advantage is the rarity value and that naturally affects the sale value. I lost count of the number of times I was asked at the NEC what my car was worth, I genuinely don't know. With only 3 known of in GB and around 22 world-wide, they very rarely come up for sale. The last one sold at auction 2 years ago in America made £135,000, but it had a very beautiful body and was in absolutely pristine condition. Mine is insured for considerably less than that.

I went to visit Victor Lane when I started my rebuild and was most impressed with his Dilambda, although there were one or two things which didn't appeal to me in respect of the replica body. It also suffered from severe wheel imbalance which Vibration Free eventually cured. Having said that, it is a very fine motor.

The present owner loves the car but is selling due to his health problems. I just hope that it stays in England.

Robin.

   

[Scarpia]

I couldn't agree more Robin.Dilambdas are so rare that it would be difficult to value one hence my comment that I'm curious to see what his one fetches.I have a similar facination with a less well known model, the Artena.
Largely ignored as unglamorous and slow they have a record of huge reliability which is just what you need for events in my opinion. I have only come across a handful of  saloons for sale in years of looking. The first was in holland but was so tired, and largely un original (all the nicer detail features had been lost) that I was put off.The second was a very nice car. We travelled to Switzerland and test drove it around geneva.Tried to bargain on the price and didn't resolve it.I then got distracted and bought an Aprilia. A certain Mr DW bought it shortly afterwards and I kicked myself ever since for having not followed it up.

Like I said in the previous posting , when you see what you like you should buy if possible rather than regret later....

[donw]

Robin/William

What are the shortcommings of a Lambda?  I my 6th torpedo has successfully driven to Italy and back 4 times now.

I have to say though William if you saw the Artena and did not buy I am very pleased!  There was however a major problem with the engine due to lack of use it required a full rebuild due to running a camshaft bearing and big ends, fortunately before the purchase was completed and the rebuild was done in Geneva.  It has since proved to be very reliable, only very minor things to sort out.

It is much more sedate than even a Lambda limousine but I would not call it slow it cruises happily at 85 to 90 KPH but a Lambda is more fun on winding roads.

Why are Dilambda/Austura/Artena gear changes the "wrong" way round?

The only other thing is rarity does not always equate with value, 2 Thetas sold last year for very low 20ks and a Lambda needing much work sold for >40k theres no logic.

Don

Don

[Scarpia]

Don,

 the only problem with the lambda is that I do not have one (yet).

When I saw your Artena it was via a conversation with Kord Beddig during a combined skiing holiday and vehicle search (partner's patience permitting) The artena was simply one of the best cars I've seen anywhere.I remain jealous...But it was right on the top end of my budget (without selling the children) and I couldn't quite commit to it whilst on holiday.Once back home I happened to get a lead on a pristine Aprilia with an Abarth conversion and couldn't resist that either.I heard subsequently that there were some engine troubles but you wouldn't have expected that during the drive we did.

incidentally, the car is featured in a 1970's dutch auto history book (just a photo I'm afraid) so was reasonable well known in Geneva.I just wish I'd had the capital to buy the artena and the aprilia.....

[Dilambdaman]

Robin/William

What are the shortcommings of a Lambda?  I my 6th torpedo has successfully driven to Italy and back 4 times now.
Don

Sorry Don, perhaps a bit of a generalisation on my part but the impression I have from listening to the owners of and reading of their experiences with the Lambda is of complexity and fragility. There always seems to be a Lambda in distress on most events. Just 6 head studs and over heating often the cause.  That's not to say that they should be regarded as anything less than magnificent machines, for they undoubtedly are just that.
 
In contrast, the Dilambda is a much more robust construction with it's cruciform chassis (15" deep in places) and 19 head studs! to name but two advantages. Steady Barker's only note of caution to me when I bought my car was that the conrods were a weak spot.
 
I agree that rarity alone doesn't necessarily lead to high value and I accept that many if not most Lancisti would choose a Lambda over a Dilambda. However, has a Lambda ever made £135,000 at auction? 
 
Robin.
 
 
 
 

[donw]

Robin

Its probably due to Lambdas being used rather a lot.  I agree that the number of head bolts is minimal, radiator problems are generally solved by having one of the correct original type rather than a tired more modern replacement.

I am not sure that going back to a separate chassis after a proper monocoque can be said to be design advance.

I just hope the the Dilambda at auction remains in UK but I fear it will probably go to Italy where there seems to be more money for older Lancias.

If Lambdas get to £100k they may stop getting used and become mere collectors items which would be sad, its a worry as one sold in 2006 for £95kand prices this year have risen dramaticaly!

Lets keep all the "Vincenzo" cars running so that the more modern car owners can see the heritage of the marque.

Don

[Dilambdaman]

Was not the provision of a chassis version of the Lambda in response to the demand from customers to be able to clothe their chosen chassis with more exotic coachwork than the monocoque allowed? Shrewd move by Vincenzo.

The Dilambda to be auctioned may not appeal to the Italian market due to it's carrying English coachwork and a copy at that. They seem to prefer their Lancia with Italian bodies, although if the price is right I suppose it could be re-bodied. Let's hope it stays here.

Most Lancia models have seen increased values this year and as Don points out, that is a worry. I'm already astonished at how few pre Delta cars are in regular use, something that is not peculiar just to Lancia. If values continue to rise we will see less and less classic and vintage cars being driven. This was brought home to me on my journey home from the NEC. Yes, I was hooted and waved at by other show exhibitors but almost without exception their cars were on trailers!

Robin.

[Scarpia]

I think the arguements are a touch flawed. My feeling is that if people are interested enough to own such a specialist vehicle they will generally drive it if its practical. I don't think the value is really a deterrent.(and yes I know there are some collectors that aren't so interested in driving them)

In practice an awful lot of these older vehicles are driven on a wing and a prayer and that's no criticism of the owners.Even with significant expertise, mechanical knowledge and long ownership it's a sigh of relief for most to get a 50 + year old car home again in one piece after a lengthy journey.Its nice to drive these things but don't kid me there's much pleasure in standing next to the motorway with a blown gasket waiting embarressed for a recovery truck!
So I think its often more the uncertainty of attempting trips than the value that would minimise use.
The english are also not typical in being very hands on in their approach.We make journeys with much worse condition cars than most europeans would.Trailering cars is quite common here and whilst I see a challenge in making the long journey, I don't blame those that see it otherwise. Plodding along between the lorries on endless motorways in a vintage car is also no great thrill and time doesn't always permit to take the extra days of a scenic route. When you see how immaculate many italian and swiss cars are its a shame there isn't more use in fact.

[ColinMarr]

Robin’s point about “demand from customers” of Lambdas wanting something other that the works option of bodywork, and hence the move back towards a chassis based construction for the later Lambdas and Dilambdas needs questioning. The thing is that the coach-building tradition in Italy means that companies like Farina, Casaro and Zagato wanted to produce their own versions based on the chassis/platform that the works usually provided – that was their whole way of staying in business – without a chassis they couldn’t produce a body. And it is perhaps more likely the coach-builders who put pressure on the works to produce platforms that they could work on.

The point is, it may not be the final customer who drives this process, more likely an intermediary who has a vested interest in keeping things traditional. In the long run, it’s the logic of technology advance that wins the day and the early Lambda had this in its form of integral chassis-less construction.

Colin

[Sliding Pillar]

It Sold for £41,100