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Author Topic: Iíve crossed the Rubicon! - advice on replacement of Rear Panel and Valance  (Read 4691 times)
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nthomas1
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« on: 25 August, 2016, 01:44:29 PM »

Iíve been debating whether to replace or repair the rear panel and lower rear valance on my S2 Coupe - even though Iíve already bought new panels from David Ashworth. Vacillating may be a better word than debating!  So, I made the decision yesterday and crossed the Rubicon by cutting away part of the rear panel in order to start preparing for the fitting of the new panels.  Crossing the Rubicon seems an appropriate phrase for the rebuilding of an Italian car!  Iíd like to do as much preparation work as possible myself before taking the car to the workshop for the welding - which Iím not equipped to do myself. 

Iíd appreciate any pointers on the process of removal of the rear panel.  I managed to separate the flange at the bottom of the rear panel where it was attached to the valance.  The fact that the seam was heavily corroded made it not too difficult. I used a hammer and a (sacrificial) palette knife.  Splitting the seam around the sides of the panel and across the top lip will be more difficult as there is not much corrosion and the joins seem quite tight.  Does anybody have any hints as to how to do this?

Iíd also appreciate any tips on removal of the lower rear valance.  Thereís a weld seam where it is attached to the boot floor.  It looks like the vertical brace in the centre will have to come out.  Also, Iím puzzled as to what the circular studs either side are for - see pictures 2 and 3.  Can anybody advise?


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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 5997



« Reply #1 on: 25 August, 2016, 10:31:07 PM »

Iíve been debating whether to replace or repair the rear panel and lower rear valance on my S2 Coupe - even though Iíve already bought new panels from David Ashworth. Vacillating may be a better word than debating!  So, I made the decision yesterday and crossed the Rubicon by cutting away part of the rear panel in order to start preparing for the fitting of the new panels.  Crossing the Rubicon seems an appropriate phrase for the rebuilding of an Italian car!  Iíd like to do as much preparation work as possible myself before taking the car to the workshop for the welding - which Iím not equipped to do myself. 

Iíd appreciate any pointers on the process of removal of the rear panel.  I managed to separate the flange at the bottom of the rear panel where it was attached to the valance.  The fact that the seam was heavily corroded made it not too difficult. I used a hammer and a (sacrificial) palette knife.  Splitting the seam around the sides of the panel and across the top lip will be more difficult as there is not much corrosion and the joins seem quite tight.  Does anybody have any hints as to how to do this?

Iíd also appreciate any tips on removal of the lower rear valance.  Thereís a weld seam where it is attached to the boot floor.  It looks like the vertical brace in the centre will have to come out.  Also, Iím puzzled as to what the circular studs either side are for - see pictures 2 and 3.  Can anybody advise?

Hi Norman,
Is it spot welded? which I would think it is, if so buy a zip drill and drill out the spot welds as it will make it a lot easier to separate the panels.

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #2 on: 26 August, 2016, 11:31:40 AM »


It looks too big to me...  How big is it?  Does it look like it joins "important" bits to the other side of that panel?

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
nthomas1
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« Reply #3 on: 26 August, 2016, 09:51:52 PM »


It looks too big to me...  How big is it?  Does it look like it joins "important" bits to the other side of that panel?

David

David - The studs are located directly above the circular metal tubes that project out through the rear valance for the rear bumper. They may be the fastenings for some sort of hanger.  Having said that, they are smooth on top, so I'm not sure how they're fixed in place.   I'll take a closer look over the weekend to see if I can see whats attached - but when I took a  cursory look the other day I couldn't see anything. 
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 769



« Reply #4 on: 26 August, 2016, 09:58:12 PM »

Brian - when you ask if it was spot-welded I assume you were referring to the rear panel.  Yes, it does appear to be spot welded.  I've started chipping/sanding all of the paint from both sides of the flange.  I'll try gently drilling half way through a run of 4 or 5 of the spot welds from the rear panel side of the flange and see if I can prise a thin blade between the two surfaces. Thanks for the tip.
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 5997



« Reply #5 on: 27 August, 2016, 10:43:20 PM »

Brian - when you ask if it was spot-welded I assume you were referring to the rear panel.  Yes, it does appear to be spot welded.  I've started chipping/sanding all of the paint from both sides of the flange.  I'll try gently drilling half way through a run of 4 or 5 of the spot welds from the rear panel side of the flange and see if I can prise a thin blade between the two surfaces. Thanks for the tip.
Norman, Yes I was referring to the rear panel but the same applies with any panel, rather than just use an ordinary drill get a Zip drill from Frosts? as that will cut the complete spot weld out, so you won't have to use so much force to get the panels apart.
http://www.frost.co.uk/8mm-cobalt-spot-weld-drill.html
Or even better http://www.frost.co.uk/spot-weld-cutter-set.html


Brian
8227 Cool
« Last Edit: 27 August, 2016, 10:47:56 PM by fay66 » Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
nthomas1
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Posts: 769



« Reply #6 on: 28 August, 2016, 01:59:56 PM »

Thanks Brian, that's great. I've never heard of zip drills. Looks like a really good option so I'll get hold of one.
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
the.cern
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Posts: 1491


« Reply #7 on: 28 August, 2016, 05:02:23 PM »

To be honest Norm, a zip drill is the only way to make anything like a neat job of separating spot welded panels! You will not regret your purchase. It is not often that the correct and best way to do a job is so inexpensive!!!

Good luck with it all and please keep posting photographs.

                             Andy
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nthomas1
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« Reply #8 on: 29 August, 2016, 09:34:03 AM »

Brian/Andy - I've researched the drills for spot-weld removal and there seems to be two types:  One (the Cobalt drill that Brian referred to) is like a conventional drill bit but with a small central point to stop the drill from wandering, and flat shoulders to drill through the weld.  The other (also referred to by Brian) is like a mini hole-cutter that cuts a circular hole around the weld. With the second type I guess it would be necessary to grind off the weld once the top panel is removed.

In your opinion, is either one better than the other?  I guess in both cases the skill that needs to be acquired is knowing when to stop drilling before cutting into the second panel.
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
the.cern
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 1491


« Reply #9 on: 29 August, 2016, 09:35:08 PM »

Jim and I use the cobalt drill. I have not come across the spot weld cutter and thus am unable to comment on it. You are right about the 'when to stop' bit. If there is a little tension between the panels then they 'pop' apart. If necessary tension may be induced by inserting a slim chisel between the two panels. Jim favours a chisel simply made by grinding an edge on a short (say 150mm) length of a used machine hacksaw blade!

Whichever you choose, I consider that you will find there will be a fair amount of cleaning up with a grinder before any new panel may successfully welded in!!! Good luck.

                                                    Andy
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fay66
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« Reply #10 on: 29 August, 2016, 11:21:40 PM »

Brian/Andy - I've researched the drills for spot-weld removal and there seems to be two types:  One (the Cobalt drill that Brian referred to) is like a conventional drill bit but with a small central point to stop the drill from wandering, and flat shoulders to drill through the weld.  The other (also referred to by Brian) is like a mini hole-cutter that cuts a circular hole around the weld. With the second type I guess it would be necessary to grind off the weld once the top panel is removed.

In your opinion, is either one better than the other?  I guess in both cases the skill that needs to be acquired is knowing when to stop drilling before cutting into the second panel.

Norman,
Pays you're money a makes your choice, as Andy said both will do the job, the one that cuts a hole will probably make it easier to split the panels but you'll have a bigger hole to fill if you are replacing only one of the panels, that said I've only seen the cobalt one used but I haven't used either myself.
Bearing in mind how cheap both are it would probably pay to have both handy and see which one you get on with.
Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
nthomas1
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Posts: 769



« Reply #11 on: 30 August, 2016, 04:36:28 PM »


It looks too big to me...  How big is it?  Does it look like it joins "important" bits to the other side of that panel?

David

David - The studs are located directly above the circular metal tubes that project out through the rear valance for the rear bumper. They may be the fastenings for some sort of hanger.  Having said that, they are smooth on top, so I'm not sure how they're fixed in place.   I'll take a closer look over the weekend to see if I can see whats attached - but when I took a  cursory look the other day I couldn't see anything. 


David - I looked again at the studs.  It's not possible to see anything underneath the valance.  However, looking more closely at the two circular tubes that hold the rear bumper mountings, there appears to be a metal strap around each.  The tops of the straps coincide with the studs inside the boot so they must be holding them in place.  I haven't yet figured out how to remove them!!
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 5997



« Reply #12 on: 31 August, 2016, 01:21:43 AM »


It looks too big to me...  How big is it?  Does it look like it joins "important" bits to the other side of that panel?

David

David - The studs are located directly above the circular metal tubes that project out through the rear valance for the rear bumper. They may be the fastenings for some sort of hanger.  Having said that, they are smooth on top, so I'm not sure how they're fixed in place.   I'll take a closer look over the weekend to see if I can see whats attached - but when I took a  cursory look the other day I couldn't see anything. 


David - I looked again at the studs.  It's not possible to see anything underneath the valance.  However, looking more closely at the two circular tubes that hold the rear bumper mountings, there appears to be a metal strap around each.  The tops of the straps coincide with the studs inside the boot so they must be holding them in place.  I haven't yet figured out how to remove them!!
Norman,
I've spent sometime pouring over my Tavoli and I can't find anything that refers to these studs, but that said it doesn't break the rear floor assembly down into component parts, but only in to the sub assembly itself, the only way I can see that you can remove these are to grind the heads off of the weld bolts, but before doing that do these actually need removing, or will the round tube bumper fixings remain in place?
Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
nthomas1
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Posts: 769



« Reply #13 on: 31 August, 2016, 07:42:49 PM »

Brian - thanks for your efforts. The studs pass through the metal strip that is spot-welded to the rear of the rear valance. This strip in turn is welded to the rear of the boot floor. The new rear valance has the same sort of strip spot-welded to it. So they will have to come out. Very puzzling!
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 769



« Reply #14 on: 01 September, 2016, 07:32:51 AM »

Here's a picture showing the back of the new lower rear valance.  You can see the strip that I referred to.  It gets welded to the rear of the boot floor.   The mysterious studs pass through that strip of metal.


* $_57-6 copy.JPG (318.51 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 229 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
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