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Author Topic: Aprilia prop shaft lubrication  (Read 1058 times)
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welleyes
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« on: 16 December, 2020, 03:21:32 PM »

In the English language Instruction book page 15, the lubrication of the prop shaft centre bearing is as follows:-
Central bearing of transmission shaft
Each 5000 miles this part wants lubricating by screwing up the special syringe. This is done through the hole...[/b]  etc

On page 13, under lubrication, it advises:-
… front suspension and central bearing of transmission shaft  Mobiloil A or Veedol Medium 3...

But in what appears to be a 1948 Series 2 Instruction book, Mobilgrease No 2 is recommended

On our 1937 Series One, the nipple on the bearing housing has no thread, so cannot be lubricated with the syringe: it appears to be a normal grease nipple. Which is correct? If anyone replies, “Oil,” my next question would be, where on earth do you get a nipple with a thread for the syringe? There is a further question, since if a normal grease nipple is used, it is usual to turn the gun to one side so that it is released from the nipple. That appears to be impossible due to the size of the access hole.

The part number for the nipple shown in the Italian Instruzioni e catalogo pezzi di ricambio in TAVa 17a is 38-73047 (Lubrificatore per asse transmissione) but the picture is too small to tell if it has a thread for the syringe.

What advice, please?

Stuart

PS In these troubled times, I wish you all the happiest Christmas you can manage under the circumstances. Eat and drink well.
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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #1 on: 16 December, 2020, 05:38:36 PM »

Hi Stuart
Not sure what other people do, but I tend to grease them. Both my cars have the screw nipples, but I had another S2 with a slide on greaser which was very clean and easy and you did from underneath when you did the driveshafts

I fill the oiler with grease and then use that - not especially easy , hence the slide on greaser. But I haven't found a slide on greaser thread to fit the central without re-threading it

If you want a threaded oiler/greaser I have a couple of spares , let me know

But a couple of photos of them before and after refurbishment


* DSCN3556.JPG.jpeg (180.14 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 69 times.)

* DSCN3609.JPG.jpeg (198.29 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 71 times.)

* IMG_3739.jpeg (137.56 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 67 times.)
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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, , R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, '65 Mini Moke,R60 Tractor,R60 S, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 63,Fulvia Berlina GT, 2019 Royal Enfield Himalayan,JTD Ypsilon - Mathilda
Mikenoangelo
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« Reply #2 on: 16 December, 2020, 09:11:03 PM »

The threaded grease nipple is of the same design as the Enots oilers on vintage Rolls Royces although of a smaller size so the oil gun fittings which can be bought, do not fit the Lancia nipples. The oilers on the Augusta sliding pillars are the same - I leave the orignals on for show (!) but replace them with a modern nipple when I oil the suspension.

Mike
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davidwheeler
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« Reply #3 on: 16 December, 2020, 10:59:57 PM »

How curious.   I spent today stripping mine out to investigate prop shaft vibration (despite Ben type discs), suspecting the roller bearing.  However, when I got it out the bearing seemed perfect so I've just put it all back in again!   I cannot find any play anywhere else in the transmission either.
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #4 on: 17 December, 2020, 07:33:30 AM »

I presume the rubber suspension plates are in good condition ? As you can see from the top picture they sag and get soggy and can wobble here - but I'm sure you've sorted that already .....

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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, , R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, '65 Mini Moke,R60 Tractor,R60 S, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 63,Fulvia Berlina GT, 2019 Royal Enfield Himalayan,JTD Ypsilon - Mathilda
Mikenoangelo
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« Reply #5 on: 17 December, 2020, 02:24:11 PM »

How curious.   I spent today stripping mine out to investigate prop shaft vibration (despite Ben type discs), suspecting the roller bearing.  However, when I got it out the bearing seemed perfect so I've just put it all back in again!   I cannot find any play anywhere else in the transmission either.

Why do vibrations plague so many Lancias? I'm on the same search in the Augusta David and I see that Omicron have specialised in curing vibrations in Aurelias so It's not just a V4 issue.

Mike
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davidwheeler
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« Reply #6 on: 17 December, 2020, 11:00:02 PM »

I presume the rubber suspension plates are in good condition ? As you can see from the top picture they sag and get soggy and can wobble here - but I'm sure you've sorted that already .....

Yes, Simon, Ben type aluminium discs with inset rubber bushes.
Mike, it is because they all have solid shafts and fixed rear drives connected by rubberised discs.  Lambda connections are very similar to the Aprilia though they have a live rear axle.     Many Lambdas have had their shafts replaced with modern ones using Hardy Spicer UJs
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
Mikenoangelo
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« Reply #7 on: 18 December, 2020, 02:32:17 PM »

Yes David - I'm coming to the conclusion that the the use of fabric discs which have to absorb the small lengthwise variation of the distance from the gearbox flange to the back axle as the springs flex is a problem - certainly for the life of the discs. As mentioned on the Augusta Progress thread I've just fitted new discs to our Augusta but so far due to salt and rain have not had a chance to test the result. Perhaps replacing the front fabric disc with a splined Hardy Spicer U/J would help and would allow retention of the beautifully light propshaft. Has anyone tried this?

Axial flexing of the discs due to axle movement would apply to Lambda and Augusta but surely not to Aprilia or Aurelia?

Mike
« Last Edit: 18 December, 2020, 09:04:47 PM by Mikenoangelo » Logged
davidwheeler
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« Reply #8 on: 19 December, 2020, 10:30:26 AM »

The problem with using Hardy-Spicer type UJs when there is no axial movement is that they wear rapidly as there is no movement between the rollers and the bearing surfaces.    Having said that, the front one on my VIIth Lambda was modified to Hardy-Spicer some 20 years ago in Oz, whence she came, and all is well so far.    The solid Lambda shafts are very heavy and many are a bit bent - those on Old Boot certainly were.  The rear shaft I replaced with a Hardy - Spicer and the front one I took to my local engineer and we put it in his big lathe and straightened it by trial and error.    Lambdas have a centring ball and socket like device to centre the shafts so the discs take only radial load and the Aprilia of course has its spiders that attach to the disc to do a similar job.   I forget now the set-up on the Aurelia but I am sure there is some sort of centring device.    The main problem with the Aurelia is that the shaft runs at engine speed and so has to be perfectly balanced.   In the Aprilia the Ben type discs pretty well solve the problem.  Nikki still has a set left, Simon!
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #9 on: 19 December, 2020, 11:11:56 AM »

Thanks for the «  prod » but i have Ben type on both cars
However I will give Nicci a call
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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, , R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, '65 Mini Moke,R60 Tractor,R60 S, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 63,Fulvia Berlina GT, 2019 Royal Enfield Himalayan,JTD Ypsilon - Mathilda
Mikenoangelo
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« Reply #10 on: 19 December, 2020, 08:11:05 PM »

The problem with using Hardy-Spicer type UJs when there is no axial movement is that they wear rapidly as there is no movement between the rollers and the bearing surfaces. 


The main problem with the Aurelia is that the shaft runs at engine speed and so has to be perfectly balanced.   In the Aprilia the Ben type discs pretty well solve the problem.  Nikki still has a set left, Simon!


I fitted an overdrive to a 20hp Rolls Royce using a short propshaft between the gearbox and the overdrive which was mounted 300mm further back in the chassis. To avoid the problem you mention of U/J roller bearings getting no exercise the trick is to mount the overdrive about 12mm higher than the centerline thus introducing a little angularity.

Re Aurelia - it only differs from other cars because the propshaft runs at engine speed in the lower gears - in top gear, unless fitted with an overdrive, engin and propshaft do run at the same speed. Is the Aurelia propshaft unusually long?

Mike

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