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Author Topic: Dedra Turbo, Update Pt1  (Read 13213 times)
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fay66
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« Reply #15 on: 05 October, 2016, 05:01:01 PM »

Just a quick question regarding the head lining of the Dedra.

Is it possible to remove it from the car via a door opening, or does a front / rear window need to be removed?

Also, does anybody have any tips for the above? (other than don't do it!)

Many thanks

Lee
Never removed one myself but I would have thought it should come out of the door or perhaps the boot with the back seat dropped down.

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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Dermist
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« Reply #16 on: 05 October, 2016, 06:54:39 PM »

Many thanks for the prompt reply.
I will see what happens over the weekend. Currently all the interior is out awaiting the start of the weldathon!  Just wondering about possibility of sparks as the car is at 90 degrees at the moment!
Thanks
Lee
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fay66
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« Reply #17 on: 06 October, 2016, 11:05:26 PM »

Many thanks for the prompt reply.
I will see what happens over the weekend. Currently all the interior is out awaiting the start of the weldathon!  Just wondering about possibility of sparks as the car is at 90 degrees at the moment!
Thanks
Lee

Lee,
Iv'e just had chance to check the Manual and it shows it coming out of the front passenger door on it's side, makes sense as the front doors open 90 deg.

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
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« Reply #18 on: 07 October, 2016, 02:02:06 PM »

I've removed a Thema headlining without taking out any windows. From memory, I already had the front seats removed and that would make it a lot easier. Make sure that the roof lining is supported as you remove the various screws. I've seen some that have been creased / snapped as they were still attached at the A pillars when they dropped.

It's not a bad job, just take your time and keep aware about how the weight is being supported.
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Current Cars: 1994 2.0 VIS Thema Station Wagon, 1967 Flavia 1.8 PF Coupe.

Previous cars:
1983 Prisma 1600
1991 Thema 16v i.e. SE
1988 Thema 8v Turbo
1992 Thema 16v i.e.
1983 Gamma Coupe (manual)
1993 Thema VIS
1994 Thema VIS LE
1990 Thema 2.8
Dermist
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« Reply #19 on: 01 February, 2017, 10:39:31 PM »

The awkward third block
The story so far. 
Original block wrecked due to a failed head gasket allowing water to sit in the bore. 
Replacement block found to have been over bored for first size Pistons. This wouldn't be a problem usually but the block was a non turbo version and therefore had higher compression Pistons. This block also need a small amount of machining to turn it in to a turbo block. 

So. Last weekend the good people of the TDC (thema dedra consortium) of which I have become a fully paid up member pulled out another engine and striped it down to the bare block for me! 
This time it comes with the turbo oil drain pipe already machined (boo!) and the pleasant addition of piston skirt oil jets. 
Interestingly the piston crown design is different to that of my originals ones in that there is a depression over a greater surface area. I assume this is to lower the compression ratio? I should add that this is a block from a 16v turbo engine. So what should I do? Install my original Pistons or use the Pistons that were with the block? 

Doing some research into fiat / lancia engines ( as you do). It appears that there is a top level basic matching of Pistons to cylinder bore dimensions. I.e. A cylinder that is slightly under nominal ( but still within overall tolerance) is stamped up 'A'. This might typically be with a new tool / start of the day. As the tool wears and the machine warms up, the size the machine cuts might change and is now on nominal. These are marked 'B'. This carries on to a 'D' catagory dimension. 

When the engines are assembled a similar process has happened with the actual Pistons themselves, being marked 'A -D'. So as the block is assembled, an A piston is used in an A cylinder bore. This is to reduce the chance of piston skirt wear on the bores (so I believe). 
The issue that might crop up is that if i use my original Pistons in the 'new' block these were marked 'A'. The 'new' block has bores marked 'c'. 

Will nuns and kittens die? I'm not sure. But at the moment I am going down the route of sacrificing OMGMAXPOWER for let's get it on the road and taxed!

Enough with the theory, we aren't here to look through text books and poor over engineering drawings. What we want to see is ferrous oxide Italian style, man against rust. 

Luckily the Dedra chassis was fully galvanised when assembled so there isnt really a lot to show.................... who am I kidding, what follows is an orgy of rust, patches, sacrifices and months and months of work. Sit back, relax and be glad it wasnt you.



Rear corner, Sun roof drain pipes



Removing the Gear change tin work



Rust where the cable management clips are




Front wheel arch, rust cut out and the dreaded expanding foam seen behind!




Another patch cut out, but importantly the Foam has been removed.



This doesn't look to bad, Front wheel arch, 



Cutting out the rot still, but now we are the root of the problem


Mmm, maybe not.





Front Bumper hanger and oil cooler support.  Looking a little battle scared.


The area around the jacking point was just universally condemned.  It was all just Urghhh.  Therefore the decision was taken to cut out and reinstate in a simplified manor.  That’s quite easy to say, but what maybe doesnt come through in the picture is that most of the jacking point is sunk between the sill and the chassis member meaning that the disc cutter was only of some use and a pad saw had to be deployed.


Jacking point partially removed, undersea lifting off, every thing red raw with rust.


Almost out, more rot under the ‘as new’ underseal!


Other jacking point.


Jacking point completely removed, and more rust removed from behind it.  The jacking point had rotted out part of the chassis member so this was cut out as well.


Passenger side, worse than the drivers with gaps along the sill / floor.  Cable management holes cause of rust patched seen felt tipped for removal.


Rear Floor perforation in evidence.


Front floor perforation in evidence.



Sill end, rear wheel arch.


Continued wheel arch woes


Other sill and wheel arch.


Random rust spot


The outside of the sill look very good, would you consider changing it?  Cutting it out and looking inside reveals a very different story!


Whats in the box? Only pattern parts! God bless  the internet and all who surf in her.

Bumper hangers!! 16euros each!
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Dermist
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« Reply #20 on: 01 February, 2017, 10:40:25 PM »

Continued....

Lets start, any good body work repair thread should start with a TonyBMW bender.  See his excellent retrorides thread for build details.


A quick sacrifice to the welding gods!




Out with the old, Drivers side floor / Sill.



Cutting out the rot



New metal Patch being tried for size, Drivers side floor / Sill.


Metal coming out! Drivers side floor / Sill.


Rear wheel arch


Rear wheel arch was reconstructed as patch work quilt with large patches ‘blended’ in.


Brace, brace.


Passenger floor patch being fitted.  Brace welded in to stop the car from ‘spreading’.


Front Drivers side piece being tested.


Actual metal being put back in!


More strength



Inside front wheel arch, repair to the bulkhead that had rotted through due to the
cavity being full of expanding foam.  The Foam trapped the water against the bulkhead
and rotted through, then allowing water into the cabin and rotting the floor out!


Closing piece now with complimentary inspection / waxing hole.


There is no such thing as a simple patch


Internal sill strengthener replaced


Rot cut out, this is under the rear seat.


Rear corner of the boot, sunroof drain hole to be added still.


Other rear corner, same problem.


Front wheel arch


Inside the rear of the sill, strengthener has been cut out and will be replaced.  All the rust (hopefully) removed and painted.


Rear wheel arch finished.


Other rear wheel arch


Spare wheel well patched in.


Front sill closure plate (with the strengthener spot welded through)


Patches, Patches


Patches Patches


Patches Patches.  Even the threaded upstand had to be remade as it had rotted off!


Rear sill and end closure plate made awaiting welding in, note again the complimentary waxing point.  The jacking point has been simplified.  It is now made from 3mm plate and welded with a support plate on the sill edge

Heres a better view

And again,

There is an additional drain hole which was gently punched through to assist with draining of the sill.  Plus the sill covers have plastic inserts that fit in rectangular holes, these had to be filed out.




Rear seat patches in


Front turret


Rear of Spare wheel well.


When I had an evening spare I noticed that the Fuel Filter bracket was falling apart.  Measuring the old one, i cut up some spare sheet and warmed up the old mangle.



Old and new.


Finished, just needs a lick of paint


The Italians it would seem are not with out a sense of humour.  After weekly updates to a friend in work, he came out with typical comment “You should call the car patches!” very drool I thought and moved on.  But this throw away comment stuck in my mind and I thought I wonder what patches is in Italian.  Well, google came back with the answer "Cerotti", it even has rot in the word! Brilliant.

So what have we learnt.  Thank god for galvanising, just imagine how bad it would have been without it.
Don’t get sucked into reading forum pages where multiple months work is condensed into a 45second skim read through.  The above work took months and months and months every weekend and multiple evenings getting things ready for another weekend bash.

I fell in to this trap of skimming through other peoples excellent rebuild threads, and letting my mind wonder about how easy and effortless it all seemed.  This isn't a don't do it rant, but realise that this stuff takes hours and hours to achieve sometimes very little!
Would I do it again, no.

Anyway, onwards and upwards, top coat and under seal, then engine rebuild and subframes!.
« Last Edit: 02 February, 2017, 12:10:44 PM by Dermist » Logged
frankxhv773t
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« Reply #21 on: 01 February, 2017, 10:53:50 PM »

You won't regret it once you can drive it.
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Dermist
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« Reply #22 on: 01 February, 2017, 11:01:19 PM »

Frank, I must admit that I have had moments of clarity, where I wonder why I am doing this!  When I explain what I am doing to my non-car friends, it sounds mental even to me!

Part of the problem is that I have not had the benefit of bonding with the car before total strip down and great expense broke out.  I have to focus on the end game (as you say driving it!) and then it will be all worth while, but I have to maintain focus and push it over the line.

Phil and Dave from the TDC have been a great help, I am slightly ahead of where the story finished, and they feature strongly in the next instalment.
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neil-yaj396
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« Reply #23 on: 02 February, 2017, 07:18:11 AM »

You have my utmost admiration!
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« Reply #24 on: 02 February, 2017, 09:14:24 AM »

You have my utmost admiration!

+1!

Am in awe of lots of the guy's talents on the forum, its utterly fabulous to see.

Keep at it you will get your reward!

P
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Frank Gallagher
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« Reply #25 on: 02 February, 2017, 11:03:47 AM »

I agree, great to see such effort, dedication and workmanship. Good luck with everything to come!!!

                     Andy
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fay66
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« Reply #26 on: 02 February, 2017, 11:23:25 AM »

Brilliant, a real labour of love and the first Dedra I know of that has been bodily restored to this level, it will be nice to see another on the road.

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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Jaydub
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« Reply #27 on: 02 February, 2017, 05:29:33 PM »

With the skills you have shown so far, I think you should fabricate yourself a bloody great medal for all that effort. Good on yer!

John
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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #28 on: 02 February, 2017, 07:00:16 PM »

You can also bear in mind that you are learning skills and gaining experience as part of the reward for your labours and the expense.
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #29 on: 02 February, 2017, 08:38:33 PM »


I loved the Dedra Turbo we had. Really good to drive and as a passenger.

Is the big "U" between sill and floor to stablise it in-and-out or up-and-down?   I noticed the card and tape on the corner and looked for the matching pool of blood on the floor.

A link to the bender build:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/simple-bender.15516/

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/70135?page=4#973572

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David Laver, Lewisham.
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