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Author Topic: Dedra Turbo, Update Pt1  (Read 13254 times)
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Dermist
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« on: 18 April, 2016, 11:38:44 AM »

Just a quick question, (I will give more info. later on when I have a bit more time) I have come by a Dedra Turbo needing a little (Read a lot) of TLC to return it to the road.

There are some rust spots in the front chassis rails.  On further inspection they seem to be filled with foam.

I have done a little googling around the subject and it appears that this is done to either help reduce road noise and/or increase chassis stiffness.

Could any of the gurus advise if this a standard feature for the Dedra and if so, has anyone attempted to weld in the area with this foam behind it?  

The last thing I need is the car to car fire!

I will post some more pictures in a little while.

Many thanks for your help,

Lee
« Last Edit: 30 July, 2018, 10:03:34 PM by Dermist » Logged
frankxhv773t
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« Reply #1 on: 11 May, 2016, 04:16:40 PM »

It seems nobody can help. I don't know if foam is standard but it would seem prudent to get rid of it before welding. I wonder if the spray cleaner for clearing the tubes of builder's foam cans would shift it?
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fay66
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« Reply #2 on: 11 May, 2016, 05:01:57 PM »

I'm with Frank,
As the Dedra Technical Advisor and having owned 5 Dedra's I can't recollect ever seeing this on a Dedra, probably a previous owner at some point did this for whatever reason, even if you are successful in removing it with the method recommended by Frank, a fire extinguisher is something always that should be kept CLOSE when welding, just in case Shocked Shocked

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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Dermist
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« Reply #3 on: 16 May, 2016, 06:38:46 PM »

Sorry for the delay in updating this thread, and many thanks for the feedback regarding the foam.

I came across the Dedra 2 years ago, it had been found in a barn after a 7 year slumber.  It was suspected that the head gasket had failed and there she lay.  With the barns ownership changing the dedra had to be moved, and this meant that for two years she was parked outside waiting for something to happen.

, on Flickr

Head off:


Piston 1, that doesn't look good!


Head Gasket 0, water passage 1.


So that will be the problem then!

Closer examination of the block surface showed that there was corrosion (pitting) between the cylinder bore and the water passage.  This meant that even if I had the head skimmed, the block may still be a weak point.  Dam.

Therefore the engine block came out and that meant I could get better access to the engine bat and the sub frame that had some surface rust on it.  This is both a good and bad thing.

The brake callipers are seized solid (Front and rear) the hydraulic pipes have perished (to be expected).

And there is now the issue of the expanding foam in the front chassis rails.
This unforeseen 'upgrade' has caused quite a lot of damage in terms of trapping rain water and holding it against the inside of the chassis rail and bulkhead.  Rust has come through in a few places which will need to be attended to.

Where the bulkhead has rusted through has meant that the drivers side carpet is wet and the sound deadening is soggy and causing the inside of the floor to become rusty as well. Cry

There are some more horrors to be revealed I fear but I will face those when I get to them.

There maybe forum member that recognises the car as there is a Lancia Motor club sticker in the back and there are still the original number plates and dealer sticker (which will have to be carefully reinstated)



I am in need of a Jack, wheel wrench, screwdriver and tool bag/tray.  All seem to be missing.
Passenger roof grab handle (Blue)

So any word of encouragement greatly received!

As a sign off heres my other Lancia


Thank as all ways,
Lee


* 14221816064_cef2840ef4_b.jpg (377.37 KB, 1024x683 - viewed 190 times.)
« Last Edit: 18 May, 2016, 11:23:43 AM by Dermist » Logged
lancianut666
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Slow but rough


« Reply #4 on: 16 May, 2016, 08:40:27 PM »

respect for taking this bad boy on! I used to have one about 16 years ago a car with real ability engine wise but so thirsty. good luck
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Fulvia Coupe S2 Flavia Coupe 1967 1.8 Kugelfischer Prisma 1.6 carb Y10 Fila Y10 Touring Dedra 1.8 Dedra 2.0 Turbo Appia S1
the.cern
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« Reply #5 on: 16 May, 2016, 09:32:15 PM »

Woodmans Garage was in Hadleigh Essex. Quite a successful dealership for a short while, but I never thought of them as real enthusiasts for the marque!!!

Good luck with your endeavours and, as ever, please keep us informed.

                                    Andy
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fay66
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« Reply #6 on: 16 May, 2016, 11:44:38 PM »

I've probably had more to do with Dedra than most so I thought the number rang a bell, but it isn't the one I was thinking of, I've also checked the registers of owners and their vehicles going back to 2000, but it doesn't show, so I'll have to go back to my original Dedra consortium lists of ownersthat I made up when I ran the Dedra Consortium, and my photos to see if I can find anything there.

Do you have the manuals? not much good for the Turbo engines as they weren't covered in the original manuals but had one of their own, that I've never seen in English, but was reputedly seen, I do however have the Dedra integrale manual which had the same engine, although it's all in Italian, but if you can work with the pictures and diagrams, or even better read Italian I can help, if you need a copy of the standard manual that more or less covers everything else I can burn you a copy CD in English, one of the CD's has the electrical fault finding, nearly a manual on it's own, that most other copies of the manuals I've seen don't have.
I can also supply a CD of the manual in German Cheesy

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
frankxhv773t
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« Reply #7 on: 17 May, 2016, 08:21:37 PM »

You also have my respect for tackling this one. As the sub-frame seems to be both rusty and encumbered with foam and you are tackling such a major job I wonder if a second hand sub-frame might be found. Also I have the factory "Overhauling Petrol Engines" manual which I believe covers the turbo which is in English.

Brian, would you like to have a look and scan anything useful to add to your resources?
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fay66
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« Reply #8 on: 17 May, 2016, 11:36:42 PM »

You also have my respect for tackling this one. As the sub-frame seems to be both rusty and encumbered with foam and you are tackling such a major job I wonder if a second hand sub-frame might be found. Also I have the factory "Overhauling Petrol Engines" manual which I believe covers the turbo which is in English.

Brian, would you like to have a look and scan anything useful to add to your resources?

Yes Please Frank.

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
Dermist
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« Reply #9 on: 18 May, 2016, 11:21:51 AM »

Just to clear up any confusion:
The subframe only has surface rust (cosmetically challenged) and just needs a good rub down and painting.

The foam is in the engine bay chassis rails, which whilst awkward, is get at able thanks to some access holes all ready there.  Once this is sorted out I will cover the holes with rubber grommets to stop the elements from getting in.

I will take a picture tonight to hopefully show what is going on!

On a more positive note, I went to Tanc Barretts yesterday for some bits and pieces and Oh my god!

Having missed the whole Lancias for sale in a showroom experience in 80's and 90's (being a product of the 70's) this was heaven.  To see rows and rows of spares, on the shelf! no less, was fantastic.  Compare this to my local fiat dealer who can't even get spares for my Seicento!

Anyway rambling over - hopefully some progress will be made soon!
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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #10 on: 18 May, 2016, 07:14:32 PM »

Sorry Dermist, I missunderstood. Good luck though.
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Dermist
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« Reply #11 on: 18 May, 2016, 09:18:29 PM »

Frank, No problem - I should have explained it better.

Brian, Ref the Turbo manual.  I have a paper copy of the Turbo manual in English, however the pictures are quite dark where they have been photocopied.  Would you CD version have better quality pictures?

If you want to copy my english 'Turbo' version you are welcome to.

As promised here are the pictures:
Looking into the drivers wheel arch


(With engine removed) The screwdriver is pointing to the main clump of foam, but the hole top left and bottom right are full of foam.


Again looking inside the wheel arch, with the grommet removed from the front of the sill.  When I was digging around inside the rusted hole and dislodging the foam - the foam found its way into this space.


So, once the engine has been rebuilt it will be out with the sparkly stick and foam eater!
« Last Edit: 19 May, 2016, 11:35:28 AM by Dermist » Logged
fay66
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« Reply #12 on: 19 May, 2016, 11:12:49 PM »

Frank, No problem - I should have explained it better.

Brian, Ref the Turbo manual.  I have a paper copy of the Turbo manual in English, however the pictures are quite dark where they have been photocopied.  Would you CD version have better quality pictures?

If you want to copy my english 'Turbo' version you are welcome to.

As promised here are the pictures:
Looking into the drivers wheel arch


(With engine removed) The screwdriver is pointing to the main clump of foam, but the hole top left and bottom right are full of foam.


Again looking inside the wheel arch, with the grommet removed from the front of the sill.  When I was digging around inside the rusted hole and dislodging the foam - the foam found its way into this space.


So, once the engine has been rebuilt it will be out with the sparkly stick and foam eater!
Hi Dermist,
I don't have the engine manual on CD only the rest that is common throughout the model range. The photos in the integrale manual are clear.
Might I suggest that rather than block the holes in the chassis rails you  give the insides a coat of waxoyl or your preferred anti rust treatment, and leave them open, as if I remember correctly they don't get a lot of mud in there, but being open allows the air to dry out anything that does.
Couple of related questions,How soon will you be starting on the engine?
Will you be coming to the AGM at Northampton? I'll be there on the Sunday and I'll bring the whole Dedra integrale manual that you can borrow, if you can wait that long which is only just over a month away.
Where are you based? I'm in Bedfordshire between Luton & Bedford off the A6.
Brian
8227 Cool
« Last Edit: 19 May, 2016, 11:15:21 PM by fay66 » Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
Dermist
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« Reply #13 on: 05 June, 2016, 05:30:15 PM »

Sorry for the delay in replying, work and then half term have got in the way of the important things!

I hope to go to the AGM, I am attending car show just outside Milton Keynes, so I will stay over.

I am based in Somerset.

I have PM'd you my contact details.

In breaking news, having honed the bejesus out of the cylinder that had water sitting in it (to remove the discolouration and slight pitting) I test installed a new piston ring into the cylinders.

Using a feeler gauge, cyl 1. was +.4mm, cyl.2 was +.4mm, cyl.3 was .85mm!! and cyl.4 was .5mm

I which I had done this before buying loads of stuff already for it.  It looks like I'm going to have to get it rebored and oversize pistons.

 Angry
I'm going to speak to my engine machinist tomorrow.
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Dermist
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« Reply #14 on: 05 October, 2016, 01:42:46 PM »

Just a quick question regarding the head lining of the Dedra.

Is it possible to remove it from the car via a door opening, or does a front / rear window need to be removed?

Also, does anybody have any tips for the above? (other than don't do it!)

Many thanks

Lee
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