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Author Topic: Fulvia fuel pump priming issues  (Read 7512 times)
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RobD
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« on: 04 November, 2015, 02:10:36 PM »

 My house has a steep driveway and I've noticed if I park with the bonnet pointing upwards the Fulvia is hard to start. I've traced this to a fuel pump priming issue and nowadays park it on the drive with its bum in the air which seems to cure the problem. I haven't measured the efficiency of the mechanical pump but judging by Moby Dick style plume of fuel it spouts when the carb feed is disconnected from the carb I'd say the pump was in pretty good fettle.
Is this priming issue a common fault?
 I should point out that modern cars struggle to reverse up my drive and it's usually accompanied by a pungent smell of clutch lining. It's quite an incline.
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'75 Fulvia 1.3S
'68 works Laverda 125cc ISDT
KTM 640 Adventure
Yamaha TDM 900
Numerous Gas Gas trail bikes...
www.adventureride.co.uk
lancialulu
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« Reply #1 on: 04 November, 2015, 02:57:06 PM »

Fulvias do have a priming issue whic I have never really understood as contemporary Alfas with same carbs do not appear (from owners comments) to have this issue and start "on the button". Perceived wisdom is to fit an inline Facet solid state pump or similar, or a more complex parrallel plumbing of same. And a switch under the dash to prime the carbs before starting. The priming pump changes its "rattling" noise as the carbs get full and the excess is being pumped down the return pipe (not 1st Series). I have this on my Fulvia and saves grinding the starter motor and battery to death....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
fay66
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« Reply #2 on: 04 November, 2015, 04:44:20 PM »

Fulvias do have a priming issue whic I have never really understood as contemporary Alfas with same carbs do not appear (from owners comments) to have this issue and start "on the button". Perceived wisdom is to fit an inline Facet solid state pump or similar, or a more complex parrallel plumbing of same. And a switch under the dash to prime the carbs before starting. The priming pump changes its "rattling" noise as the carbs get full and the excess is being pumped down the return pipe (not 1st Series). I have this on my Fulvia and saves grinding the starter motor and battery to death....

Works a treat and well worth fitting.

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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RobD
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« Reply #3 on: 04 November, 2015, 09:35:06 PM »

Funnily enough there's a new-looking Facet pump fitted to the car but not connected. I'd always assumed the pump was there because the previous owner had been running a set of Dells or Webers and had removed them before sale. In desperation when I was looking for the cause of the fuel starvation I hooked the Facet up and it too struggled to prime itself and pull any fuel up.
In desperation I connected a syringe full of fuel to the mechanical pump inlet and gave it a squirt until fuel came out of the [disconnected] outlet to the carbs. After re-connecting everything  the car then fired up readily until left overnight at which point it gave up the ghost again.
I can understand why folks fit Facets but surely these cars ran without issue and would start up easily when new? Is this not just a case of accumulated wear in the system which needs eradicating and bringing up to spec? Or perhaps my driveway is just too steep?
I should point out I am a self-confessed Luddite  and like to keep things simple... Grin Grin Grin
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You're all entitled to my opinion.
'75 Fulvia 1.3S
'68 works Laverda 125cc ISDT
KTM 640 Adventure
Yamaha TDM 900
Numerous Gas Gas trail bikes...
www.adventureride.co.uk
lancialulu
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« Reply #4 on: 04 November, 2015, 10:37:08 PM »

Maybe you have a partial blocked supply pipe maybe at the bottom of the tank where it goes right to the bottom of the tank in a curious filter arrangement (which could be blocked with fine rusty stuff).
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
neil-yaj396
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« Reply #5 on: 05 November, 2015, 07:05:22 AM »

Betas suffer in a similar way. I think it is usually that the diaphragm in the mechanical pump becomes weak, or even holed, so much less efficient.

Air leaks can be another issue too. I once had a crack in a plastic filter, which didn't leak fuel, but must have let in air. Once changed it made a massive difference to starting.
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1979 1300 Beta Coupe, 2014 Ypsilon 1.2 S Series Momo
chriswgawne
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« Reply #6 on: 05 November, 2015, 10:25:17 AM »

Can I suggest you check both the valves in the mechanical fuel pump, particularly the non return valve? Our GTE starts virtually immediately if it has only sat for a week or less and if it's longer than that it just takes a little longer. That's without choke but pumping the accelerator.
Replacement pump valves used to be available but I am not sure these days.
Chris
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #7 on: 05 November, 2015, 12:32:48 PM »


Logically it can only be "draining" rather than "pumping" which would fit with Chris's advice.

In terms of "were they like that when new" is petrol these days more volatile to disappear from the float chamber or less viscous to sneak past the non return valve?

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
fay66
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« Reply #8 on: 05 November, 2015, 04:02:08 PM »


Logically it can only be "draining" rather than "pumping" which would fit with Chris's advice.

In terms of "were they like that when new" is petrol these days more volatile to disappear from the float chamber or less viscous to sneak past the non return valve?

David
My 2c has never been any different even with a new fuel pump and a filter king, my 1969 Rallye Coupe was the same, and it would seem most Fulvia's are the same, they just churn and churn away but eventually firing, very hard to listen to if you have any mechanical sympathy, no one seems to know why it is, but it is a fact they all seem to do it, with my previous 32 solexes, and my current 32 Dellorto's.
So it's really a case of do you want to ponder the problem or fix it? it's up to you Rob.
Although it does sound like you might have rubbish floating around at the pickup point in the tank.

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
RobD
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« Reply #9 on: 05 November, 2015, 06:32:24 PM »

The rubbish in the tank theory is plausible, although I have to say the tank was drained about 8 months and didn't show signs of mischief. I think this non return valve warrants further investigation... the fact the longer the car is parked the harder it is to start would certainly support Chris's suspicions. Thanks to all for the input, it's very much appreciated.
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You're all entitled to my opinion.
'75 Fulvia 1.3S
'68 works Laverda 125cc ISDT
KTM 640 Adventure
Yamaha TDM 900
Numerous Gas Gas trail bikes...
www.adventureride.co.uk
lancialulu
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« Reply #10 on: 05 November, 2015, 07:18:43 PM »

Even on the level they drain back...... I overhauled my mech pump and got a nice 3.5psi pressure but still had need to fit a small prime pump. The secondary benefit is if the mech pump fails (hopefully the valve as otherwise fuel just goes into the crank case) you have another fuel pump to get you home.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
davidwheeler
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« Reply #11 on: 09 November, 2015, 09:16:13 AM »

Fit the Facet and bypass the mechanical pump - I have done this on both my Fulvias and never looked back.    Fit a Filter King as well if you like to regulate the pressure but I have not needed to do this on the Fulvia (but I have done it on the Aprilia as there is no return pipe).
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
chriswgawne
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« Reply #12 on: 09 November, 2015, 10:01:34 AM »

Over my 40+ years of Aurelia ownership (with generally only intermittent usage of the cars) I have always fitted a Facet typepump with Filter King regulator. However recently I bought some replacement pump diaphragms which I used to be unable to source and, as I had kept the old mechanical pumps, I have started refitting them and fitting switches to the Facet electrical circuit leaving the electrical pump in situ for priming.
Two reasons for this. Firstly I have had 2 Facet failures in the last 10 years and when that happens and it is the only pump, it's a problem unless you are carrying a spare (I was fortunately. One failure was on my race car at a meeting and the other was on a long Continental trip in our original beige 4th Series) and secondly, I still run with original dynamo + voltage regulator set up. In the event of a problem with the charging, one can travel considerably further, particularly in daylight running on just the battery.
Christopher
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Chris Gawne
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davidwheeler
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« Reply #13 on: 09 November, 2015, 01:48:06 PM »

That's why I said "bypass" not "remove" - but does running dry harm a mechanical pump?
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
lancialulu
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« Reply #14 on: 09 November, 2015, 03:33:10 PM »

should run them through the mech pump why not it flushes the valves....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
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