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Author Topic: Fulvia Berlina Normale - Nardi Kit advice  (Read 7374 times)
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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #15 on: 19 April, 2015, 07:37:12 AM »

A very interesting tale Neil.

It's all a question of what the tuning setup is designed to achieve.
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Seara Cardoso
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Posts: 33



« Reply #16 on: 21 April, 2015, 10:46:16 AM »


Hello Ricardo,
I did a bit of Fulvia reading and checking, There doesn't appear to be any difference between normale and 2c camshafts nor the 'V' angle, if you check specifications in 'La Lancia' they are the same, the increase in power is mainly due to twin solex Carburettors & inlet manifold, and with the increase of compression ratio to 9-1 instead of I think it was 7.2 -1 with the Normale.
I'm not sure if this was achieved with a change of pistons or the 2c cylinder head, so if you don't achieve what you want from the Nardi kit, then it would seem a relatively easy upgrade if the pistons are not involved, if they are, skimming the  cylinder head may help.
Dellorto 32 DHLB's are better built than the solexes, they have the advantage of all the jets etc being accessible from the top rather than having to take the solexes off to get at them as they are underneath.
There is no visible difference in overall performance but the dellorto's run and idle smoother than the solexes, and seem to stay in tune for a long time. in fact I think it's something like 6 years since mine were touched, if not longer.
I also fitted a 'filter King' filter & pressure regulator about 2000, as the early Fulvias didn't have a fuel filter and I was pulling all sorts of rubbish up from the petrol tank, I have also fitted an electric fuel pump up near the fuel tank with a lighted switch on the dash, this is only used for priming the carburettors; after the pump stops ticking I pump the accelerator pedal 6 times, pull the choke fully out, then operate the ignition switch, she always fire 1st or 2nd pull, I don't touch the pedal until the running has settled, then push the choke nearly home, and pick up the revs on the pedal,  touching the pedal before then may result in flooding the plugs and or stalling.
I also have a simple electronic ignition system fitted which only use the points as a trigger so there's no wear on the contacts.

Brian
8227 Cool

Hello Brian,

I dont have the "La Lancia" book, and on the books that I have there is no indication of the camshaft. Do they say if  the 1C and 2c camshafts are the same? Same opening angles etc?

If they are I'll keep mine, and skim the cylinder head to reach the 2C compression ratio. I know the 2C valves have a greater diameter.

I also have the same starting ritual! But I dont have an electric pump yet, so every time I have the car stopped for more than one week I have to take out the fuel hose going to the carb, suck the fuel back up the hose and connect it again. Not very practical!

Can you give me the specifications of the pump you have?

Ricardo
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1956 Aurelia B20GT
1957 Appia Vignale
1963 Fulvia Berlina
1964 Flavia Berlina
1967 Flavia Coupe 1.8 Iniezione
1972 Fulvia 1600 HF
1972 Fulvia Berlina
1974 Beta Berlina 1800
1994 Thema LX
2008 New Delta
Seara Cardoso
Member
***
Posts: 33



« Reply #17 on: 21 April, 2015, 10:51:49 AM »

Regarding the Nardi manifold with Weber carb, I wonder what difference this would make on its own without changing camshaft, compression ratio, valve sizes, gas flowing the ports,  exhaust manifold etc etc.
Its certainly an attractive looking tuning modn but simply putting more fuel and air into an engine doesn't really do a lot on its own in my experience.
When I was at school in the 60's, a schoolfriend had a Renault Dauphine to which he fitted twin single choke Webers (as opposed to the original stock single carb). Apart from putting negative camber on the rear wheels to improve handling (apparently!), he did nothing else. The twin carbs looked great, the induction roar sounded great.......but the car was actually slower! We timed it along the Great West Road between the Cherry Blossom roundabout at Chiswick and Rivercourt Road at Hammersmith and no matter how the car was driven it was a little slower than before. Mind you, my friends street credibility rose so he would say the exercise was worth it.
Chris

""Regarding the Nardi manifold with Weber carb, I wonder what difference this would make on its own without changing camshaft, compression ratio, valve sizes, gas flowing the ports,  exhaust manifold etc etc.""

It's a question of whether the engine is under carburated or not. I remember David Vizard's book "How to modify your mini" recommending carb work as the simplest upgrade on an "A" series engined car and putting a gas flowed 1.5 inch SU on my Morris Minor certainly made a difference. But if you put too big a carb on an engine it can slow down gas velocity in the induction tract with adverse effects.

If the original carb on the Fulvia was specified for economy and larger carbs were fitted to heads with similar porting for the more sporting models then the upgrade would probably be worthwhile.

Nardi probably knew what they were doing? Give it a try. You can always switch back.

Frank

I really dont know what more differences cars with the nardi kit had. I think that at least they must had a different camshaft and higher compression ratio , so I'm trying to do that for now. Then combining different jets on the Webber to reach a smooth ride and nicer to go uphill.

If it doenst work I'll go back to how it was!
Logged

1956 Aurelia B20GT
1957 Appia Vignale
1963 Fulvia Berlina
1964 Flavia Berlina
1967 Flavia Coupe 1.8 Iniezione
1972 Fulvia 1600 HF
1972 Fulvia Berlina
1974 Beta Berlina 1800
1994 Thema LX
2008 New Delta
fay66
Permanent resident
**
Posts: 6063



« Reply #18 on: 22 April, 2015, 05:25:34 PM »


Hello Ricardo,
I did a bit of Fulvia reading and checking, There doesn't appear to be any difference between normale and 2c camshafts nor the 'V' angle, if you check specifications in 'La Lancia' they are the same, the increase in power is mainly due to twin solex Carburettors & inlet manifold, and with the increase of compression ratio to 9-1 instead of I think it was 7.2 -1 with the Normale.
I'm not sure if this was achieved with a change of pistons or the 2c cylinder head, so if you don't achieve what you want from the Nardi kit, then it would seem a relatively easy upgrade if the pistons are not involved, if they are, skimming the  cylinder head may help.
Dellorto 32 DHLB's are better built than the solexes, they have the advantage of all the jets etc being accessible from the top rather than having to take the solexes off to get at them as they are underneath.
There is no visible difference in overall performance but the dellorto's run and idle smoother than the solexes, and seem to stay in tune for a long time. in fact I think it's something like 6 years since mine were touched, if not longer.
I also fitted a 'filter King' filter & pressure regulator about 2000, as the early Fulvias didn't have a fuel filter and I was pulling all sorts of rubbish up from the petrol tank, I have also fitted an electric fuel pump up near the fuel tank with a lighted switch on the dash, this is only used for priming the carburettors; after the pump stops ticking I pump the accelerator pedal 6 times, pull the choke fully out, then operate the ignition switch, she always fire 1st or 2nd pull, I don't touch the pedal until the running has settled, then push the choke nearly home, and pick up the revs on the pedal,  touching the pedal before then may result in flooding the plugs and or stalling.
I also have a simple electronic ignition system fitted which only use the points as a trigger so there's no wear on the contacts.

Brian
8227 Cool

Hello Brian,

I dont have the "La Lancia" book, and on the books that I have there is no indication of the camshaft. Do they say if  the 1C and 2c camshafts are the same? Same opening angles etc?

If they are I'll keep mine, and skim the cylinder head to reach the 2C compression ratio. I know the 2C valves have a greater diameter.

I also have the same starting ritual! But I dont have an electric pump yet, so every time I have the car stopped for more than one week I have to take out the fuel hose going to the carb, suck the fuel back up the hose and connect it again. Not very practical!

Can you give me the specifications of the pump you have?

Ricardo

Hi Ricardo,
Just found the specification for timing for Normale & 2c, as well I checked the Tavoli Parts list, and I'm afraid first look in La Lancia that I thought indicated the camshafts are the same, was incorrect.

I've attached 3 documents that are self explanatory, I've also highlighted the differences in pink for the timing.

Information from the Tavoli regarding part numbers and use.
818.00 Normale Cylinder Head Part Number 1107160
818.100 2c Cylinder Head Part Number 1107674, this was also used for GT and 1.2 Coupe.

818.00 Inlet Valve Part Number 1107188
818.100 2c Inlet Valve Part Number 1191412

818.00 Exhaust Valve Part Number 1107191
818.100 Exhaust Valve Part Number 1191413.
So in fact there seems to be nothing in common whether or not you could fit a 2c Cylinder Head Complete I'm not sure. but you'd also need to fit the Solex twin Choke carbs and manifold to go with the head.

The Final Drive on 818.100 2c is higher than that for the 818.00 Normale.
hope this helps
Brian
8227 Cool


* Fulvia Normale 818.00 & 2c 818.100 Timing.jpg (498.46 KB, 1275x1754 - viewed 286 times.)

* Fulvia Normale 818.00 Power Curve.jpg (289.88 KB, 1275x1754 - viewed 249 times.)

* Fulvia 2c 818.100 Power Curve.jpg (336.78 KB, 1275x1754 - viewed 267 times.)
« Last Edit: 22 April, 2015, 05:31:54 PM by fay66 » Logged

Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
Seara Cardoso
Member
***
Posts: 33



« Reply #19 on: 08 May, 2015, 04:19:52 PM »


Hi Ricardo,
Just found the specification for timing for Normale & 2c, as well I checked the Tavoli Parts list, and I'm afraid first look in La Lancia that I thought indicated the camshafts are the same, was incorrect.

I've attached 3 documents that are self explanatory, I've also highlighted the differences in pink for the timing.

Information from the Tavoli regarding part numbers and use.
818.00 Normale Cylinder Head Part Number 1107160
818.100 2c Cylinder Head Part Number 1107674, this was also used for GT and 1.2 Coupe.

818.00 Inlet Valve Part Number 1107188
818.100 2c Inlet Valve Part Number 1191412

818.00 Exhaust Valve Part Number 1107191
818.100 Exhaust Valve Part Number 1191413.
So in fact there seems to be nothing in common whether or not you could fit a 2c Cylinder Head Complete I'm not sure. but you'd also need to fit the Solex twin Choke carbs and manifold to go with the head.

The Final Drive on 818.100 2c is higher than that for the 818.00 Normale.
hope this helps
Brian
8227 Cool


Hello Brian,

Thank you very much for the images, they will be very helpful! If I fit the 2C head I'll need a new intake manifold and the Nardi one wont fit.

 The 2C camshaft stay open longer, if I fit them and grow a little on the compression I think I'll have a good result.

My car has already the 2C gearbox, so less one trouble and closer to the 2C!

Ricardo
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1956 Aurelia B20GT
1957 Appia Vignale
1963 Fulvia Berlina
1964 Flavia Berlina
1967 Flavia Coupe 1.8 Iniezione
1972 Fulvia 1600 HF
1972 Fulvia Berlina
1974 Beta Berlina 1800
1994 Thema LX
2008 New Delta
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