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Author Topic: Dead dedra  (Read 8304 times)
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ben
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« Reply #15 on: 19 December, 2014, 09:56:39 PM »

Hi there and a Merry Christmas to all you helpful souls out there.

As you might deduce from my lighthearted tone I think I have had a break-through.

My Latvian crank position sensor arrived this morning. The output voltage check on the original one was inconclusive so I installed the new one but the response when I tried to start the car was the same as before. Intermittent firing but failure to catch and run. Also it seemed as though the ignition was over advanced as it tried to kick back.
I decided to check the timing.I had put off doing this because being an automatic it is very difficult to manually turn the engine.Anyway having got No1 piston to TDC I removed the cam covers expecting to see either No1 or No4 valves on the rock and they were clearly not where they should be.
The only possible conclusion is that the timing belt has jumped a few teeth---presumably at the time of the original failure to start. It is not broken and looks ok but is a bit slack.I am just hoping that there has not been any valve to piston contact.

As I had bought a complete set of belts to fit anyway it should be all downhill from here!!

Watch this space.
                             Ben
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #16 on: 19 December, 2014, 11:49:34 PM »


Just goes to show - I'm thinking earths and sensors and its something really fundamental. 

Might still be earths and sensors AS WELL, but ALWAYS got to start with the basics...
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David Laver, Lewisham.
fay66
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« Reply #17 on: 20 December, 2014, 01:59:19 AM »

Hi there and a Merry Christmas to all you helpful souls out there.

As you might deduce from my lighthearted tone I think I have had a break-through.

My Latvian crank position sensor arrived this morning. The output voltage check on the original one was inconclusive so I installed the new one but the response when I tried to start the car was the same as before. Intermittent firing but failure to catch and run. Also it seemed as though the ignition was over advanced as it tried to kick back.
I decided to check the timing.I had put off doing this because being an automatic it is very difficult to manually turn the engine.Anyway having got No1 piston to TDC I removed the cam covers expecting to see either No1 or No4 valves on the rock and they were clearly not where they should be.
The only possible conclusion is that the timing belt has jumped a few teeth---presumably at the time of the original failure to start. It is not broken and looks ok but is a bit slack.I am just hoping that there has not been any valve to piston contact.

As I had bought a complete set of belts to fit anyway it should be all downhill from here!!

Watch this space.
                             Ben

Ben,
Pleased to hear that the end might be in sight, although the belt isn't broken I wouldn't be surprised if you find the belt has a bare section with missing teeth as it sounds pretty much the same what happened to my Thema as I said in an earlier post, keeping fingers crossed for no valve damage.

Your mishapreminds me that when I bought my second auto it wasn't clear if the belts had been changed so I booked her in to have the belts and idler bearings done, half way to my garage (about 14 miles) the engine died with a smell of burning rubber, I manage to coast it into a layby and found that the counterbalance belt had come of, in the process it had immediatly got tangled up with the crankshaft sensor which snapped off, instanly killing the engine, but it was quick enough to stop the vavles getting bent, so while it cost me to have the head pulled to change the head gasket which was leaking oil at the front right corner (common) , I didn't have the extra expense of replacing bent valves.

Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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peterbaker
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« Reply #18 on: 20 December, 2014, 11:51:26 AM »

Hi Brian, slightly off topic. I purchased a beautiful, low mileage, Gamma. Collected it on the Saturday and it was booked in to have belt changed and a service the following Monday. Couldn't resist a ten mile spin on a sunny Sunday morning. You can guess what happened next.
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1961 Lancia Flavia 1.5 Berlina. 2005 Lancia Ypsilon. 1954 Daimler Conquest. 2003 MG ZT-T 135. 1998 SAAB 9-3 Conv.
fay66
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« Reply #19 on: 20 December, 2014, 12:02:21 PM »

Hi Brian, slightly off topic. I purchased a beautiful, low mileage, Gamma. Collected it on the Saturday and it was booked in to have belt changed and a service the following Monday. Couldn't resist a ten mile spin on a sunny Sunday morning. You can guess what happened next.

OH Dear Sad Very much damage?

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
lancialulu
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« Reply #20 on: 20 December, 2014, 12:08:21 PM »

Hi Brian, slightly off topic. I purchased a beautiful, low mileage, Gamma. Collected it on the Saturday and it was booked in to have belt changed and a service the following Monday. Couldn't resist a ten mile spin on a sunny Sunday morning. You can guess what happened next.
How did it run on one bank Peter?Huh? Have you joined the Consortium to get your valves etc. There are 2 diameters of valve I believe. The club the the locking pins for doing a gamma belt change but some suitable grooved 10mm rod/M17bolt will do the job....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
peterbaker
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« Reply #21 on: 20 December, 2014, 02:59:40 PM »

The car is long sold. There is one locally I have my eye on.
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1961 Lancia Flavia 1.5 Berlina. 2005 Lancia Ypsilon. 1954 Daimler Conquest. 2003 MG ZT-T 135. 1998 SAAB 9-3 Conv.
lancialulu
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« Reply #22 on: 20 December, 2014, 03:32:03 PM »

The car is long sold. There is one locally I have my eye on.
peter you have been Lancialess for too long......
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
peterbaker
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www.retro-speed.co.uk


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« Reply #23 on: 21 December, 2014, 10:22:13 AM »

I Know. I know.
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1961 Lancia Flavia 1.5 Berlina. 2005 Lancia Ypsilon. 1954 Daimler Conquest. 2003 MG ZT-T 135. 1998 SAAB 9-3 Conv.
ben
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« Reply #24 on: 29 December, 2014, 02:48:37 PM »

   As this thread has drifted off into reminiscences of broken belts generally I have posted my final chapter of the story under a new more positive title. (I have now suffered broken or slipped belts on a Gamma, a Prisma,and a Y10 as well as the current episode!)
   My Dedra belt was very slack but had no teeth missing and actually was apparently in good condition as was the balance shaft belt. I guess it must have stretched to have become slack enough to jump teeth.
   Also there does not appear to have been any valve to piston contact.

   With hindsight I now realise that the reason I got strange results when I did the basic checks for sparks (and was therefore sure I had an ignition failure of some sort) was because the inputs to the ECU from the crank sensor and the hall effect probe in the distributor were out of step (due to the distributor being driven from the end of the exhaust camshaft).
   As somebody has already said-----You live and learn!!
 
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