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Author Topic: Everyday Appia  (Read 105746 times)
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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #165 on: 20 September, 2014, 08:22:36 PM »

At last - a few minutes on the Appia !

The vendanges were completed at the beginning of the week, we got all the grapes in before the storms were due (but never arrived !) . It was all hands on deck for 2 very long days. 10 people picking, 3 or 4 people in the caveau de-steming and filling the tanks and a tractor/Ercole driver.

The yeast has been added and now the interesting bit starts ..... still lots to do because we have to drain the juice twice a day on the carignan - to help extract flavours and the syrah is punched down to help achieve the same thing. Both are cooled to make sure the fermentation is not too fast .................

Anyway , back to Appias.

I would like to try and start the Appia by the end of the week, so I have restarted on the bits that matter - first off the starter motor. It was like everything else, filthy , so it has been stripped and cleaned. Commutators cleaned, brushes (4) checked and de-burred, continuity checked, bearings cleaned and greased - all ready to refit. Dynamo tomorrow

Not necessary for starting but, I am a bit suspect of the front suspension, it is a bit tight on one side and would not allow oil into the damper, so I stripped the adjuster on the top of the sliding pillar , freed off the damper and backed it off. Once done the unit was refilled with oil. I am hoping that with some "exercise" it may get better , if not I will have to dismantle the whole unit at a later date

Finally for a bit of fun, a picture of a beetroot that turned up in our weekly veg basket ......do we cook it or send Cinderella to the ball ?


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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, , R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, '65 Mini Moke,R60 Tractor,R60 S, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 63,Fulvia Berlina GT, 2019 Royal Enfield Himalayan,JTD Ypsilon - Mathilda
chugga boom
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« Reply #166 on: 21 September, 2014, 04:23:58 PM »

Simon check the insulation in the brush housing for the starter, absolute rubbish as standard and fails with heat, we usually replace with a modern insulation material and get no real trouble with them afterwards , also the fork off the solenoid fractures so check carefully and try not to do anything with it as they shatter easily, j
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1935 augusta lusso (chugga)
1935 belna saloon
1935 augusta lusso
1938 ardenne
1939 aprilia lusso
1958 appia s2
1963 appia s3 
195? appia camioncino
1972 fulvia 1600HF
1976 fulvia coupe
194? ardea SUV  "THE BEAST!!!"
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #167 on: 21 September, 2014, 04:56:38 PM »

James
I checked the bridge because I remembered seeing something in the Appia Consortium newsheet, fortunately it is OK. I also checked the continuity of the housing and all appears well, but thanks for the advice and I will check my spare starter motor and change the insulation and have it ready because that would seem wise !

(photo to show the bit James refers to)

Due to strip and clean the dynamo - any advice there ??

Starter motor rebuilt, refitted and connected up, sump plug fitted and engine filled with oil. I found that the starter motor needs to be part dismantled (photo) to fit the solenoid suggesting that it is not possible to change it in situ - not that there is much room !

 More tomorrow ??


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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, , R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, '65 Mini Moke,R60 Tractor,R60 S, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 63,Fulvia Berlina GT, 2019 Royal Enfield Himalayan,JTD Ypsilon - Mathilda
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #168 on: 24 September, 2014, 05:33:40 PM »

Major step forward today - she started !

Not without some fettling and headaches, but she runs and sounds lovely !

Briefly - starter motor fitted, battery connected and turned her over without plugs to check oil pressure - none ! Disconnected the pipe to the gauge but no oil, so dismantled the distributor drive and manually primed the oil pump with a specially made rod in a cordless drill. All OK

It took an age to re-align the oil pump, drive and distributor and even then I had it all 180 out as I found out later ! (Set TDC on #4 not #1 because I didn't take the rocker covers off ...... note to self for the furgoncino) If you do not get the drive in exactly the right place, ie slot perpendicular to the block, then it is very difficult to do the ignition timing because the greaser will foul the block, clamp or inlet manifold

I made a new set of leads and fitted new plugs then stripped, cleaned and rebuilt the carb (lots of bits and VERY dirty) including replacing the broken emulsion tube. New one is brass not the horrible alloy. So 10 mins in the freezer and it fitted nicely.

Choke set to full on, tip petrol down the carb and press the key - bit of backfiring through the carb suggested that I'd got it wrong - no probs, remove the dizzy drive, rotate 180, refit, reset and repour.

Ran first time ! Lots of oil pressure and no rattles ..... I only ran her for a few seconds because the pump is not connected and neither is the cooling system

Next off is the fuel supply, dynamo and then the cooling system









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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, , R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, '65 Mini Moke,R60 Tractor,R60 S, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 63,Fulvia Berlina GT, 2019 Royal Enfield Himalayan,JTD Ypsilon - Mathilda
DavidLaver
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« Reply #169 on: 24 September, 2014, 09:57:38 PM »


Made MY day so I can imagine how pleased you are.

Was the new emulsion tube much of a project?

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
lancialulu
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« Reply #170 on: 24 September, 2014, 10:07:07 PM »

Atta boy  Cheesy
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
chugga boom
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« Reply #171 on: 25 September, 2014, 07:26:06 AM »

well done  Wink
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1935 augusta lusso (chugga)
1935 belna saloon
1935 augusta lusso
1938 ardenne
1939 aprilia lusso
1958 appia s2
1963 appia s3 
195? appia camioncino
1972 fulvia 1600HF
1976 fulvia coupe
194? ardea SUV  "THE BEAST!!!"
Dikappa
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« Reply #172 on: 25 September, 2014, 05:36:14 PM »

Way to go Simon!
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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #173 on: 26 September, 2014, 06:34:32 AM »

Thanks for your support !

Gallon of petrol in the tank, fuel line modified and Filter King fitted in front of the rad and she will tick over nicely and rev freely. Oil pressure is just above half at tick over and cold

A couple of points that maybe the wise out there can help me with, I had to bypass the mechanical pump because the electric pump would not push through it. Is it blocked, seized or normal ?

Even with the Filter King backed off 1/2 turn (ie reducing pressure) I still get a slight seep around the carb gasket. You cannot go mad with the bolts because there are only 3 of them .....it is only evident when you leave the pump on with the engine not running, but I would like to stop it anyway !

I have changed the gasket for a NOS piece and also replaced the float valve with a new one. Today I have ordered new,new gaskets so will change them again. Is it worth shimming the float valve so it closes more firmly ??

I am going to replace the mechanical pump with another unit, so will having the pump in line reduce the pressure ??

Another option is to put the pump on to a "prime-only" circuit ....

Any thoughts ?

(Beautiful, crisp morning here - a "good to be alive day" - hope it is the same with you)


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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, , R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, '65 Mini Moke,R60 Tractor,R60 S, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 63,Fulvia Berlina GT, 2019 Royal Enfield Himalayan,JTD Ypsilon - Mathilda
lancialulu
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« Reply #174 on: 26 September, 2014, 07:18:51 AM »

I normally feed the electric through the mech pump and use the mech pump after priming with the electric so your mech pump seems suspect. I plumbed the other way ie parallel bypassing but got fed up with all the extra cavis benz pipes. I have been running series on 2 fulvias and a gamma for years....

On the fuel weep it seems you have too much pressure / poor float needle valve. Filter king I thought screwed in for less pressure but I could be wrong. I set up with an inline pressure gauge and no more than 3psi although carbs seem to be quite happy at lower down to 1.5psi.

Sunny and about 20c here so nice in Essex
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
the.cern
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« Reply #175 on: 26 September, 2014, 07:20:17 AM »

Simon, that is excellent work you have done there and so quickly, congratulations.

Carb, I had a lot of problems with mine when I first got the car and stripped it several times. I must admit that in the end I resorted to Hylomar, albeit the very lightest smear. After that no problems.

Fuel pump, I have an electric pump as well as the mechanical one which I try to remember to use only for priming. However, I occasionally forget to switch it off after the engine has started and run with it active without any problems. That would seem to suggest there is a problem with your mechanical pump.

Good luck with an early fix and thank you for keeping us posted.

                                           Andy
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lancianut666
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Slow but rough


« Reply #176 on: 26 September, 2014, 09:58:56 AM »

Nice one Simon! bet that is a big relief...interesting stuff about the fuel pumps, is it to do with modern petrol or is the mechanical pump just poor? being brought up on Vivas, Victors, Imps, Cortinas, Herald,Anglias,Fiat 127, Peugeot 104s I have only had fuel pump trouble with one of the Imps.
Clarkey
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Fulvia Coupe S2 Flavia Coupe 1967 1.8 Kugelfischer Prisma 1.6 carb Y10 Fila Y10 Touring Dedra 1.8 Dedra 2.0 Turbo Appia S1
GG
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B20 s.2, Appia C10 unrestored


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« Reply #177 on: 26 September, 2014, 12:13:13 PM »

Be careful and check the pressure of the mech'l pump. On the Aurelia, the pump is very sensitive to the gasket thickness, which can change the pressure up to 7 psi if one isn't careful. Its not well known, but make sure the pressure at RPM (say 3,000) is where you want it as well as low down. I run an elec pump through the mech'l as well, as its role is to prime the carb and also the odd moment of vapor lock. But had no problems on the Appia, where only a mech'l pump is run. And yes, change in gas composition raises hell with the rubber diaphragm. Most of these have to be changed to a different type of rubber.
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B20 s.2, Appia C10 unrestored
ben
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« Reply #178 on: 26 September, 2014, 12:42:27 PM »

I have just cleaned up a mechanical fuel pump for my "test bed" Aprilia engine and can confirm there must be a blockage if the electric pump wont push the fuel through it. However I have never resorted to an electric pump as I have found the mech one to be more reliable anyway and the more plumbing you have the more chance of leaks.
Also as a point of interest the AC pump on the Aprilia does have a weakness wrt to the screw that holds the lid on---viz it is very easy to strip the thread in the Mazac into which it screws. Normallythe pressure under the lid is only that arising from the head of fuel in the tank as it is the pump inlet chamber.However when you put an electric pump in the line the zone under the lid will see the full feed pressure so if a fuel weep occurs at that point be very careful not to try to cure it by over-tightening the lid screw.
I stick to the view that original is best although I am aware that many people have good experience with added electric pumps.


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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #179 on: 26 September, 2014, 04:44:54 PM »

Interesting comments, I came across the same issue with my Aprilia pump as well, I must admit to a smear of hylomar just to be sure and I always carry a short piece of copper pipe in case I need to bypass it. I know the use of electric pumps on old cars is contentious but they do save so much churning on the starter motor !

I stripped and cleaned the fuel pump this afternoon and although the pump was in reasonable condition, one of the "penny" valves was stuck. It just needed the slightest twist of a small screwdriver to shift it and all seems fine. Next time I have the car in the air I will put it back "in-line".

Other things done today were stripping, cleaning & regreasing the water pump, then refitted with new gaskets. All the threads and bolts/set screws were properly cleaned so they fit and torque up correctly.

Final job was to strip and rebuild the dynamo. Apart from being filthy it is all OK. I removed and degreased the front bearing whilst at it. I had some difficulty refitting it until I realised that in order to clip in the retaining ring, you have to compress the flat spring washer at the front (see photo of the front plate in the vice)

Another small note for first time dynamo dismantlers, in order to remove the brushes-plate you have to undo the tiny screw (pictured) - it isn't always obvious because all the dynamos I looked at were caked in muck and you could not see it !

I have avoided "over-blinging" this engine, just clean and refit, but the dynamo was so rusty, it got a coat of paint !!


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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, , R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, '65 Mini Moke,R60 Tractor,R60 S, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 63,Fulvia Berlina GT, 2019 Royal Enfield Himalayan,JTD Ypsilon - Mathilda
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