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Author Topic: Thema water pumps  (Read 5508 times)
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A1.6HPE
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Posts: 89


« on: 08 April, 2007, 03:25:30 PM »

 Will the water pump for an 8V engine fit a 16V engine ? In particular the VIS engine. 
Are they basically the same on all Thema 4 cylinder engines?

Leo
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fay66
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Posts: 5990



« Reply #1 on: 08 April, 2007, 04:09:53 PM »

Hi Leo,

Just checked eper and the answer is no.

8V 1988-1992 takes 7173968 which when this was issued 2004, cost 65.50 & was still available.
All thema 16v 1992 on including turbo & vis take 7173964 which was 95.28 at the time.

Brian Hilton
8227
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
A1.6HPE
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Posts: 89


« Reply #2 on: 09 April, 2007, 01:36:52 PM »

Thanks Brian,
I suspect that they are all compatible, just that there was some production change that ended up with different part numbers. (perhaps simply changing from metal impeller to plastic) The EPER doesn't show the replacment path though so I am guessing. Will ask my local motor factors tomorrow to check their catalogue to see if the same "pattern" pump fits all.

The basic situation here is that the pump on my friend's VIS has "gone" and he has a pump from a 16V Turbo S2 which he says is different. I have a new pump for an 8V Turbo that looks the same as the 16 V Turbo one. (He lives 45 miles away from me so not easy to confirm other than e-mailed photographs)

The pump I have came from the late Barry Waterhouse and was destined for a Dedra 2 Litre engine - Bazza said that the Thema 8V Turbo pump was the best to use as it was the cheapest and they were all the same.

Confused of Scotland.

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Rodders
Guest
« Reply #3 on: 09 April, 2007, 01:58:23 PM »

Leo

Don't forget the standard Beta pump fits the Montecarlo but in fact the impeller is narrower so you don't shift so much eau around the system, which makes the cooling marginal unless you fit the correct Montecarlo item.  Could be the same with the Thema, different pumps for different cooling requirements.

Rodders
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A1.6HPE
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Posts: 89


« Reply #4 on: 09 April, 2007, 02:05:09 PM »

Thanks Rodders,
The Beta pump is a bit different though, there is a seperate duct (as you will know).
Just had a call from Peter who tells me that there is a slight difference in the body of the two pumps he has and that it will be possible to modify the body to suit.
I am going to drive over there now with the new (8V pump) so will take pictures and report back (probably tomorrow).
Asked Peter if the weather there was Montecarlo or Trevi weather - he said Trevi.

Ciao for now,  Leo
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A1.6HPE
Member
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Posts: 89


« Reply #5 on: 10 April, 2007, 09:21:27 PM »

OK, we're back...
The original design of pump was modified to allow more space for the timing belt on the 16V engines. The 8V specification pump has a much more robust body casting. However with a bit of surgery the 8V type pump will fit the 16V engine. Needs a bit hacking of the pump and also the metal cover that goes over it (to clear one of the bolts). So not plug and play but a definite if you have a good 8V pump "on the shelf".
Essentially the basis is of course that the reccomended solution is to fit the correct pump.
However, pictures here - http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/leocapaldi/tech/thema_water_pumps.htm

Unconfused of Scotland


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fay66
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« Reply #6 on: 10 April, 2007, 11:12:03 PM »

Hi Leo just had a look at your photos, as you say not that easy but certainly it could be done, are you going to relay this also to TDC as no doubt Pete would be happy to have the information.

Brian  Wink
8227
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
A1.6HPE
Member
****
Posts: 89


« Reply #7 on: 12 April, 2007, 08:34:06 PM »

Hello Brian,
Have put the same note on the TDC forum - no one there had responded.
The car is back in daily use and we are confident with the modification.

Ciao for now,  Leo
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inthedark
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« Reply #8 on: 12 April, 2007, 09:08:08 PM »

Now that's the sort of technical info we need on the forum.
very clear photos and well explained solution.

Well Done

Geoff 'thecolonel'
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Kevin MacBride
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Posts: 451



« Reply #9 on: 26 April, 2007, 04:43:48 PM »

Part no is 71737964, available ex stock Volvea Italy delivery 1st May price 128.50Euro plus VAT retail. Discount 20% to club members plus postage.
After 30 years wth Fiat I still cannot understand why people do not try thier local Fiat /Lancia/Alfa dealer. If anyone out there is looking for info on 'modern' Lancias please do not hesitate to call me. kmacbride@eircom.net and I will do my best to help. All I need is a chassis no.  Regards Kevin
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B20 4th series (having a 'facelift')

2000 sedan
Fiat Multipla
Fiat Cinquecento
inthedark
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« Reply #10 on: 26 April, 2007, 05:44:05 PM »

Thanks Kevin,
I'll keep you in mind, it is noticable that a lot af FIAT dealers are not interested or do not
have the relevant fiche or CD ROM to assist, hopefully that will change with the return
regards
Geoff 'the colonel'
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Kevin MacBride
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« Reply #11 on: 27 April, 2007, 01:11:59 PM »

No matter what Fiat dealership you are in , wheither its in Botswana or Ballygobackwards, they have access to Fiat Alfa or Lancia. The Eper system is now on-line, CD's are not used by ourselves anymore except as a backup.
For example the Lancia Eper dates back to the Delta '86. I would imagine its laziness, or dis-interest. I have an interest in Lancia as I have a few different models (B20, Beta, Thema, Flaminia). As far as i'm concerened if its available, and someone wants to buy it, I'll sell, doesn't matter to me if its off a Fiat 500 or an Integrale. All the parts for the UK and Ireland either come from Warrangton or Volvera. Once you have the correct part no, the system will spew it out, computors are souless. All you need to find is a partman with a bit of interest, and time, unfortunatly in our modern and fast living lives both are a bit lacking. Maybe we need more 'old fogies', oh and by the way I'm only 47 !!
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B20 4th series (having a 'facelift')

2000 sedan
Fiat Multipla
Fiat Cinquecento
fay66
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Posts: 5990



« Reply #12 on: 27 April, 2007, 11:41:43 PM »

I would recommend Desira Group Plc in Diss Norfolk, 01379 650111, ask for parts or Andy,  I often order parts from them, I usually get a discount, pay by card, & they usually post parts off pretty quickly. Grin

Ebay worldwide "Lancia Dedra" will usually turn up Dedra water pumps, I suspect they maybe pattern parts but usually sell for well under 50, & even with postage, is a worthwhile buy.
I recently picked up a complete exhaust from the Kat back, for my 1992 Dedra 2.0ie Auto, from Berlin, my copy of Eper (2005) listed this genuine item at 250, I know from experience that a pattern part in the UK would cost in the region of 125; The cost of the pattern item including UPS delivery from Germany was 51, it appears to be of a similar quality to the pattern part available in the Uk.
Slight problem with brackets not being quite right, although that didn't stop it being fitted securely.
I know all the arguments for fitting genuine parts, but bearing in mind the value of even a good Dedra these days, it's very hard to justify buying an exhaust that costs something like 40% the value of the car! even if the exhaust only lasts twelve months I can still buy 5 of these for the cost of one genuine system, that going by my considerable experience of running 5 Dedra's over the last 15 years, is unlikely to last much more than 3 years.

That said, going by my own recent experiences, I very much agree with Kevin in that it is quite surprising how much stock Lancia do hold for Dedra Y10 & Thema, & in many cases being cheaper than you see the same parts on Ebay, with bidders paying far more than they would pay for the item from Lancia! Huh?

When Lancia quit the UK a system was set up that only certain dealers would be able to obtain Lancia parts, but if you find a dealer that suites you, I would recommend, Desira, John Whalley, LC Motors in Newport South Wales, all I have dealt with over the years. No doubt others would also be able to recommend others.

Brian Hilton
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
TimV1969
Guest
« Reply #13 on: 28 April, 2007, 07:29:11 AM »

I second the recommendation for Desira (01379 650131 should be the direct number for the parts desk, the fact that I know that should tell you how often I call them!) and as I've just found with the Y10LX back box, if they can't get their hands on what you're looking for, they'll happily suggest someone who might.  In that case, it was Zagato Lancia.  I'll withold judgement on them until the exhaust turns up (ordered on Wednesday afternoon, should be delivered today) but my experience with them has been pretty good so far.  Some interesting stuff on their website too.
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Turbo_Ie
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« Reply #14 on: 11 May, 2007, 12:16:06 AM »

the 8v turbo wather pump is not the same of the 16v turbo.....(i've tried that allredy in my thema),if you dident purcase yet an water pump for your thema i'll be glad to help you with a spare one from my spare engine that i have!
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