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Author Topic: Tapping/Knocking Noise  (Read 29372 times)
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the.cern
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« Reply #15 on: 01 May, 2013, 08:13:03 AM »

This really is becoming a challenge !!!!!

I have replaced the gearbox mounting !  Not an easy job, especially when there is no lift or pit. I started on my own and stripped it all down. Disconnect top hose, disconnect clutch linkage, disconnect exhaust, disconnect gear linkage, lose bush from gear linkage !!!!!!  That wasted an hour !!!! I had given up and asked Jim to make a new bush when it reappeared, in a place I swear I had checked five times previously !!! I tried to drive the bush out (it is a voided silentblock) but I had not appreciated there was a clamp. Call to 'good ole Jim' who made an extractor and appeared on Saturday morning for what we thought would be a couple of hours work!!!  Well, 8hrs later we had replaced the bush, the old one was in desperate need of renewal and reassembled everything except the interior. Sunday morning I replaced all the interior bits, it always take so long to get those bits back in properly and went for a test drive. Well, as you might have guessed from the opening sentence of this post, no change !!!!!  I have consoled myself with David's statement, it was A problem, albeit not THE problem.

Having looked back through the suggestions in this thread I decided to check the push rods. Off with the rocker covers and rocker shafts, thank you Don for the tip to put an elastic band round the shafts before withdrawing them to stop the rockers etc sliding off the shaft !! Out with the push rods, not tubular ali as suggested by Christo but steel !!! All seem in good order although one is very slightly bent some 40mm from the top. Not readily visible to the naked eye but discernible when the rod is rolled along a plane surface.

I now need to consider the next move, I do not believe the push rods or rocker gear are the problem, so I think I will replace all that and do a test run, miracles have happened you know !!! Anticipating failure, I think the next move must be to remove the fan belt and go for a run, that should identify any problem with the dynamo, fan or water pump.

If all that does not identify the fault I will sulk ............. then seek professional help ...... for the car, not me (although the latter has been suggested by several members of the family) !!

 I wonder how long it will be before I am ready to report again ?

                                     Andy

PS  Any more thoughts from anybody ?  We are getting desperate here !!
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Parisien
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« Reply #16 on: 01 May, 2013, 10:28:30 AM »

Not sure this has been mentioned......thought about one of these or similar?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-AUTOMOTIVE-ELECTRONIC-STETHOSCOPE-diagnostic-specialty-tool-tools-car-cars-/370773276306?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item5653cf3692#ht_605wt_932

I remember I had a problem like this in a 1949 Citroen, turned out to be water pump, can't remember the exact part was worn, but packing it with grease temporarily solved it. It was a very definite heavy metallic knock, occurred when engine well warmed up after 30 mins or so


P
« Last Edit: 01 May, 2013, 10:40:42 AM by Parisien » Logged

Frank Gallagher
DavidLaver
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« Reply #17 on: 01 May, 2013, 01:32:51 PM »


Did the propshaft check out ok?  If so excellent news of itself.

You WILL get there with it...

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
the.cern
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« Reply #18 on: 01 May, 2013, 01:47:52 PM »

Thank you for the thought Frank. The problem is that the noise only appears when under way and under load. Whilst I think four of my grandchildren are actually small enough to get into the engine bay with the bonnet closed, I have yet to get parental consent. Some people are so picky !!!!

I will keep seeking !!

                          Andy
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Parisien
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« Reply #19 on: 01 May, 2013, 02:56:17 PM »

There is a more advanced system, which gets you away from the putting your children up a chimney scenario, were using a series of probes ( 4/6/8) you can listen whilst driving to the various noises the engine etc makes and allows you to pin point exactly where its coming from......ask at local decent indie garage if they will hook up for you


P
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Frank Gallagher
Parisien
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« Reply #20 on: 01 May, 2013, 04:20:34 PM »

One of these bits of kit....

http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_28342_103/j_s_products_steelman_06600_stethescope_electronic.html


P
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Frank Gallagher
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« Reply #21 on: 01 May, 2013, 04:22:22 PM »

Same item on ebay...am sure there are UK suppliers

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steelman-Electronic-6-Channel-Chassis-Ear-Listening-Kit-New-/321101400652?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac3228a4c


P
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Frank Gallagher
ColinMarr
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« Reply #22 on: 01 May, 2013, 08:30:04 PM »

This all reminds me of an experience that I feel I need to own up to. A couple of years ago my faithful Fiat Punto developed a vibration at about 60 mph when fairly heavily loaded. I thought it might be a wheel out of balance and I looked for a missing balance weight, but couldn’t find anything wrong. I checked the tyres for any lumps or stones stuck in the tread, but nothing.  The vibration went away and then came back with a vengeance when driving in France with the whole front of the car shaking. I investigated and found the rubber sections in one wheel arch had become loose and were flapping about. I bought some cable ties and strapped it all tight and all seemed well. Then it happened again so I secured them better with nuts and bolts. Then it came back and I started to suspect a wheel bearing or something in the transmission. I took a rear wheel off and spotted some cracks in the tread. The tyres were Michelins with lots of deep tread, but they had covered about 50,000 miles. It seems the carcass of the tyre had stated to come apart and this only showed up under load causing all sorts of vibrations. New rear tyres fitted and all was well.

Might your problem be something just as silly?

Colin
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the.cern
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« Reply #23 on: 01 May, 2013, 09:18:38 PM »

Colin, thank you for the thought. It is of course quite possible, indeed quite probable, that it will prove to be something simple and, in hindsight obvious.

I must just be persistent and hope to be lucky sooner rather than later!!!

                       Andy
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the.cern
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« Reply #24 on: 04 May, 2013, 02:51:26 PM »

It's me again !!!

Push rods replaced, rocker shafts bolted in and tappets checked after two screwed adjusters replaced as the hardened bearing surface was damaged. Finally, rocker covers on. Test drive, lots of muttering, it will now do it in second at 15mph and continue through the gears, Always only present under load. However, park on the driveway at home, slight uphill gradient and handbrake on, select first, lots of revs and up with the clutch. Result, move forward slightly with the engine heavily loaded but NO horrible noises.

Time to remove the fanbelt and test. Anticipating no change, I think it then will be time to have the front wheels off and inspect 'everything'. I really do not know what I will be looking for, simply anything that doesn't look right !!

As it is persisting with rain at present I will delay this for a while !!! A report in due course.

                                                            Andy

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rogerelias
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MY 1600HF IN HEARTBEAT GARAGE


« Reply #25 on: 04 May, 2013, 02:57:32 PM »

Hello Andy, silly question, do you think it could be in the gearbox? Worn thrusts? Just a thought. It was when you said that when you had the handbrake on under load no noise, that to me would point to transmission, not dynamo or water pump. anyway good luck
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the.cern
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« Reply #26 on: 06 May, 2013, 07:39:49 PM »

Well Roger, funny you should say that !!  Yesterday Tim Heath (lancialulu) had a drive out from Colchester down to Westcliff to see if he could help identify the problem. While I drove around, especially up the hills leading away from the sea, Tim adopted a head down, butt up pose with his head against the transmission tunnel. It seems that the gearbox is indeed the most likely source of the noise so it is time to bite the bullet  and remove the gearbox. I will obviously check the clutch and most probably replace the friction plate while it is accessible.

So, let's see what happens next. The question is, how soon I will be able to get at it. I have to prepare for and attend a trade fair at the Business Design Centre in Islington from the 13th to the 15th and a trip to Wales is long overdue so there may be a delay, I will keep it as short as possible.

Incidentally, the fanbelt off check revealed that the dynamo fan and water pump are not at fault.

I'll keep in touch !!


                        Andy
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the.cern
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« Reply #27 on: 05 June, 2013, 09:43:47 AM »

And so the story continues .............

I got the trade fair out of the way and went to Wales, mowed the lawns on the first two days of sun,  then sulked for two days of rain and then returned to an equally wet Westcliff. Fortunately, before I went to Wales, I had time to remove the propshaft and remove the doughnut couplings. The front one, which I had checked fully when replacing the gearbox mounting was fine, just a few surface cracks. However the rear one, which had only been checked in placed by pushing and pulling and levering, was dire and that is an understatement. Cracks were found adjacent to three alternate bolt bushings, I am not sure whether they were the diff. spider bushes or the prop. spider bushes. One crack was about 80% thro', another about 60% thro', whilst the third was a mere 40% thro' !!!!

Now the quandary, continue to remove the gearbox and clutch assembly, install the replacement gearbox and then check. Or replace the doughnuts and test. If I did the former and all was ok then I would not know if the fault had been in the doughnuts or the gearbox. If I chose the latter and the test showed the doughnuts not to be THE problem, then I would have gone through the rigmarole of replacing the propshaft, dropping the car, testing and then have to jack up the car again and drop the propshaft again.

I chose the latter. Time to fit the new doughnuts, simple !!  Oh yeah !!  The new bushes were 8mm thicker than the old meaning the length of the drive shaft assembly would be increased by 16mm. This became apparent as the bolts were some 8mm too short and the the castellated nuts did not go on far enough to permit fitting the split pins. At 6pm on a Friday this is a bit of a blow, the local bolt store was closed until 8am Monday so just another frustration. Don explained the cause, the thinner doughnuts were used on Series one cars, the Series two and three cars had a longer wheelbase and to accommodate this Lancia used the simple expedient of thicker doughnuts ! Monday morning saw the bolts purchased, but having my 2yr old grandson to stay took out the day and early evening. It was turned 7pm before I got into the garage to try to fit the new boots for the bushes at each end of the the propshaft. That was a battle, but I won eventually and by 10.15pm all was assembled. Just time to drop the car ready for a test drive in the morning.

The test drive .............. A total disaster sums it up quite well. At the first sniff of an uphill incline there it was, the now ever-present tapping.

I must admit I was not surprised. To me, ALL propshaft faults reveal themselves initially with vibration and I had had none of that. So, Jim is making up a cradle for the gearbox to fit onto the trolley jack to assist in dropping the gearbox.

To be continued .....


                          Andy
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #28 on: 05 June, 2013, 09:54:23 AM »


...but you now know the prop joints are all good...and how to get it all apart and back again...

How pleased will you be to get to the end of this one?

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
lancialulu
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« Reply #29 on: 05 June, 2013, 11:32:58 AM »

Andy

If its nit too late and to save jim some time and your pocket, machine mart sell a gearbox cradle that fit  a 3 ton (1 inch mounting) trolley jack for not a lot of money. i have one and it is well made if you grease the screw thread pitch adjuster.

Tim
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