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Author Topic: Tapping/Knocking Noise  (Read 29354 times)
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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #90 on: 12 August, 2015, 09:38:46 PM »

I haven't reviewed the whole thread so forgive me if this has already been covered. If it is clutch related might a broken clutch spring be the culprit? (assumes it has clutch springs)
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rogerelias
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MY 1600HF IN HEARTBEAT GARAGE


« Reply #91 on: 13 August, 2015, 07:32:38 PM »

Hi Andy, is the car in North Wales? if so let me know a date when you would be there, and I would drive up and listen to the car first hand, also cannot quite remember where in Wales it is, I am near Aberystwyth Roger

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FULVIA 1600HF LUSSO
1958 VELOCETTE MAC
Triumph Bonneville t120v 1972
1968 MGC ROADSTER
1958 Series 2 Appia berlina
the.cern
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« Reply #92 on: 13 August, 2015, 08:45:42 PM »

Frank, the clutch spring in the Appia is a single coil spring. I stripped the clutch quite early on in  the investigation into this problem and found no issue with it. I replaced the friction plate and put everything back together with no apparent change to the problem.

Roger, the car is in Essex so many thanks for your kind offer, but I will not be able to take you up on it.

I hope to get another crack at the investigation n the next couple of weeks, torrential rain has not been conducive to  driving out in it today. Hopefully things will improve!!

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and comments, please keep them coming.

                                           Andy
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the.cern
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« Reply #93 on: 16 August, 2015, 08:56:18 PM »

Took the Appia out for a run on Thursday .... unbelievably the noise has not gone away!!!!! Its still b*****y there, laughing at me!!!!!!

Seriously, I have not moved on with this and will just take it out whenever I get the opportunity to see what happens. The trouble is that I dare not use it for 'serious' journeys as sods law dictates that it will break down at the most inopportune moment!!!

                                                         Andy
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the.cern
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« Reply #94 on: 21 August, 2015, 09:34:24 PM »

I may have moved forward, possibly, one little step!!! Yesterday I went in the Appia to see a precision machinist who will do some work for me on some Gussie parts. He suggested that I take the car to see a local vintage/classic car restorer called Keith Pointing. This gentleman campaigns a vintage Riley and specialise in the restoration of the marque. He used to work on Lancias and has had some experience with Appias, albeit some years ago. He believes that I may have a big end problem ... so it will be sump off at some time, but goodness knows when!!!!!

                                                  Andy
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lancialulu
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« Reply #95 on: 22 August, 2015, 07:16:55 AM »

Andy

Do you know what? I was going to post exactly the same having heard your (rather poor) Instagram videos. So I did not show to my MOT man as I still feel the noise and it was very strong on the bell housing so my money is still on the pressure plate. A big end should rattle while in the drive if you give it some throttle. I always believed you could not get this noise at standstill??

Tim
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
JohnMillham
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« Reply #96 on: 22 August, 2015, 12:28:39 PM »

It will be interesting to see if the last person who put the Appia engine together knew about the strange way that the con rods go in!
Regards, John
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appiaman
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« Reply #97 on: 24 August, 2015, 01:48:09 PM »

Norman Warner who was a very good engineer in South Africa rebuilt that cars engine if it is a big-end then I will be surprised unless the engine run low on oil.
Appia's do break cranks and it will still run as it normally very clean break.

Christo
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Lancia lambda 8th series, Fulvia 1600 sport (1972)Fulvia1.6hf (1972), Lancia Flaminia gtl, Porsche boxter, Mini Cooper
mikeC
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« Reply #98 on: 04 May, 2016, 05:57:40 PM »

Andy, have you got any further with this problem?

I ask because my Series 1 seems to have developed a very similar 'knock'  Cry

Frank's description of your noise exactly matches my noise:


... Its not an engine noise for sure, sounds almost like dried out/aged leather rotating against something in the drivetrain, did they use leather much in the Appias construction?!... Cool...seriously the noise reminds me of the old style wooden "rattles" used by footie fans.....the driveshaft rubber coupling failed/disintegrated, if they used them in the Appia?! ...


The only (!) problem is my noise occurs under rather different circumstances: It initially occurred when I declutched coming to a standstill. Over a fifty mile journey it developed so that it was occurring every time I declutched, and by the time I got home it was also doing it on right-hand corners without touching the clutch. I cannot reproduce the noise whilst the car is stationary and an, admittedly quick, inspection underneath the car has not revealed anything loose, broken or dropping off ...

Ideas, anyone?
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1953 Lancia Appia Series 1
1931 Austin Seven deluxe saloon
1914 Saxon Model A roadster


(previously owned Lancias: 1958 Appia Pininfarina coupe, 1987 Delta LX, 1986 Delta cabriolet, 1991 Dedra 1.8, 1993 Dedra 1.6)
fay66
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« Reply #99 on: 05 May, 2016, 12:39:05 AM »

Andy, have you got any further with this problem?

I ask because my Series 1 seems to have developed a very similar 'knock'  Cry

Frank's description of your noise exactly matches my noise:


... Its not an engine noise for sure, sounds almost like dried out/aged leather rotating against something in the drivetrain, did they use leather much in the Appias construction?!... Cool...seriously the noise reminds me of the old style wooden "rattles" used by footie fans.....the driveshaft rubber coupling failed/disintegrated, if they used them in the Appia?! ...


The only (!) problem is my noise occurs under rather different circumstances: It initially occurred when I declutched coming to a standstill. Over a fifty mile journey it developed so that it was occurring every time I declutched, and by the time I got home it was also doing it on right-hand corners without touching the clutch. I cannot reproduce the noise whilst the car is stationary and an, admittedly quick, inspection underneath the car has not revealed anything loose, broken or dropping off ...

Ideas, anyone?
How about crankshaft end float? I had this once on a Vauxhall where the thrust washers either side of the crank had worn, allowing the crankshaft to move forward, if you dipped the clutch with the engine running while stationary an observer could see the crankshaft pulley moving forward as the clutch was operated.
Probably not your problem, but worth a look.

Brian
8227 Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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JohnMillham
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Posts: 970



« Reply #100 on: 05 May, 2016, 06:59:17 AM »

Andy, have you got any further with this problem?

I ask because my Series 1 seems to have developed a very similar 'knock'  Cry

Frank's description of your noise exactly matches my noise:


... Its not an engine noise for sure, sounds almost like dried out/aged leather rotating against something in the drivetrain, did they use leather much in the Appias construction?!... Cool...seriously the noise reminds me of the old style wooden "rattles" used by footie fans.....the driveshaft rubber coupling failed/disintegrated, if they used them in the Appia?! ...


The only (!) problem is my noise occurs under rather different circumstances: It initially occurred when I declutched coming to a standstill. Over a fifty mile journey it developed so that it was occurring every time I declutched, and by the time I got home it was also doing it on right-hand corners without touching the clutch. I cannot reproduce the noise whilst the car is stationary and an, admittedly quick, inspection underneath the car has not revealed anything loose, broken or dropping off ...

Ideas, anyone?
How about crankshaft end float? I had this once on a Vauxhall where the thrust washers either side of the crank had worn, allowing the crankshaft to move forward, if you dipped the clutch with the engine running while stationary an observer could see the crankshaft pulley moving forward as the clutch was operated.
Probably not your problem, but worth a look.

Brian
8227 Cool
I had a similar problem with my Augusta, but when I operated the clutch, the crankshaft moved (ever so slightly) towards the rear! this enabled a screw in the front pulley (which held a balance weight) to touch the crankcase, making the tapping noise. A screw with a shallower head cured the problem.
Regards, John
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mikeC
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« Reply #101 on: 05 May, 2016, 07:47:52 AM »


How about crankshaft end float?

It's certainly worth investigating, as also are the engine mounts, but since I can only make the noise when the car is moving, and the rattle seems to be related to car speed rather than engine speed, I think I need to be looking further back in the drive train.
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1953 Lancia Appia Series 1
1931 Austin Seven deluxe saloon
1914 Saxon Model A roadster


(previously owned Lancias: 1958 Appia Pininfarina coupe, 1987 Delta LX, 1986 Delta cabriolet, 1991 Dedra 1.8, 1993 Dedra 1.6)
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #102 on: 05 May, 2016, 12:17:15 PM »

What about the rear gearbox mounts - the silent block on the top of the box can get very soft and break up

The tunnel mounted ones are a bit more robust
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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, , R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, R60 Tractor,R60 S, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Fulvia Berlina GT, Fulvia Rallye S, Royal Enfield Himalayan
the.cern
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« Reply #103 on: 05 May, 2016, 09:55:28 PM »

Mike, I have every sympathy for you and hope that you can get at your problem significantly quicker tha I have managed!!

Coincidentally I have got back to the issue recently, on Monday actually!! I have bought a multi channel electronic stethoscope and with help from Harry, my oldest grandson, carried out some more investigations. The results unfortunately were not absolutely clearcut, but the lead on the tail of the gearbox and that on the adjacent speedo take-off seemed to be the loudest/clearest indicating a problem there. I have decided to get a 'box from the Consortium and simply do a straight swap. I will keep posting!
Leads were positioned as follows :-

Black ...... exhaust pipe
Yellow ..... gearbox tail
Green ..... engine front right
White ..... clutch
Red ........ speedo
Black ...... engine rear left

                          Andy


* Appia with stethoscope pick-ups 2.jpg (417.63 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 157 times.)
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lancialulu
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« Reply #104 on: 06 May, 2016, 06:37:01 AM »

Andy

Are you leaving the clutch alone when you swop the gearbox (hope answer is yes!)!

Tim
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
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