Ignition switch/lock for series3 Thema.

[murf]

My recent trip to the French Alps ended ignominiously on the back of a recovery truck outside Reims and I now have my SW stranded in a Lancia garage in Laon. The garage say that the part they need is no longer available (Neiman 82480931). I think  this is the steering column lock/ignition switch assembly, so I'm now desperately trying to find one in the UK. Does anyone have any ideas on where I might source one of these or have a spare secondhand one I could buy?
Best regards, Murf.

[Lindsay]

Are you in the TDC? One the of the chaps there should be able to sort you out.

[Angle Grinder]

Thema Consortium to the rescue... maybe?

Not sure about the part number, but I can sell you the part which is the steering lock casing that bolts onto the steering column. The Key Tumbler has been removed and so has the connector block that attaches into it. This component has a mechanism that controls which contacts align with which in the ignition switch. It also locks the steering wheel.

If the Key Tumbler and Connector block items are still OK on your car then they are very easy to transfer over. The Key tumbler just needs the key inserted, then you turn it in the opposite direction from usual and withdraw the tumbler whilst depressing a small lever on top of the casing. This means you can keep your ignition key.

Attached is a picture that may help you to determine if it is the right part. It is certainly has Neiman stamped on it, but there are no other identifying numbers other than an 0870 and 3E stamped on the casing where it would bolt onto the other half.

[fay66]

Murf.
Which bit is broken, I suspect it is the switch itself.
The series 1/2 Thema 1988-1992 complete asm is different and is part number 82439821 and completely different to look at, the actual switch itself is the same on all Themas and is part number 588983.
I think the body mike has is probably the one you want.

Good luck.
Brian
8227

[murf]

Thanks to everyone for the info and suggestions.David Thomas Garage is trying to source the part for me and I also have someone at my nearest Fiat dealership checking out the numbers. I will probably know by lunchtime tomorrow if either of them have had any luck with their searches.
Mike, I would certainly be interested in buying the part you are offering. Please would you call me over the weekend on 01359221475 or 07921489571 so we can discuss price/postage etc.
Kind regards, Murf.

[Angle Grinder]

To the best of my knowledge, the part that I have is from a series 2 car. I've changed steering columns on Themas before and never noticed what the difference is between the ignition barrels. Can you explain what the differences are Brian, I can't see anything in the diagrams that looks radically different?

[fay66]

To the best of my knowledge, the part that I have is from a series 2 car. I've changed steering columns on Themas before and never noticed what the difference is between the ignition barrels. Can you explain what the differences are Brian, I can't see anything in the diagrams that looks radically different?

Mike,
I've just had another look at eper and the manuals, but I've never owned a series 2 only 3's, added to the fact I've never had to take an ignition barrel apart.
For what it's worth Im not sure if there there is a difference in the barrels only in the locksets and keys. although the illustrations shown do look different,  that may just be the perspective shown, I've looked in the manuals but they don't help.
When I worked at Vauxhall you could always tell what an assembly consisted of, Ie= 1 was the Main Assembly, 2 went into 1, as did 3, and 4, and so on. if the Lancia Parts list works the same way which I suspect it does, the only differences in the two series is actually the locksets and keys.
Looking at series 3 parts list,  No.6 is the blank key complete that incorporates 5893333 Battery & 5893332 Bulb, which is the remote for the central locking and alarm while, the series 1 & 2 parts list doesn't have these items .
It would be helpful to know which part of the assembly is the problem? and what is actually happening, or not as the case may be? as Murf hasn't given enough detail.

Brian
8227

[murf]

Just a brief update on the SW rescue situation. Yesterday I bought the plastic switching cylinder/terminal block from my local Fiat dealer and today I have arranged with Mike to buy the locking assembly he has kindly offered.
Quite separately and I suppose employing a double indemnity approach I also spoke to David Thomas Garage yesterday who think that on Monday they will get the Neiman part which the French garage could'nt source so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that when all these bits turn up in Laon they will be able to get the car going.
I'm also hoping that they will be able to do something about the engine refusing to idle below 1500rpm. This was another problem which showed itself earlier on our journey up through France making it difficult to keep the car running in the heavy slow moving /stationary traffic approaching the peage tolls.
I must say that so far I'm hugely impressed with the way that the insurance company dealt with the situation, getting my wife and I back to the UK and once home keeping me informed about what needed to be done. Lets hope this continues.

Best regards, Murf.

[fay66]

Murf,
Pleased to hear things are on the move to get you mobile but we still don't know what your original Symptoms were? The refusing to idle at under 1500 rpm might be down to the throttle potentiometer switch which operates the intake butterfly that maybe gummed up with petrol deposits. Didn't have it happen on my Themas but it was more common on Dedra, but worth a look.
Something worth bearing in mind from the manual regarding the Bosch MotronicM 1.7 M.P.I. injection/ignition system is, I quote " It is important to take into account that there is no provision on this system for any type of adjustment such as of the engine idle speed, the butterfly valve sensor position and the exhaust gas CO content"
Below is a fair chunk of the manual on the Series 3 fuel system, the Turbo has a similar Management system to the non turbo, differences are listed on a seperate page.

Brian
8227

[fay66]

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[fay66]

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[murf]

Hi Brian, Thank you for posting all those data sheets, I will print them off tomorrow at work and digest their contents when I get back tomorrow evening.
Regarding the original symptoms, I think it was a case of one thing leading to another. The car behaved impeccably on the way down through France cruising all day at their legal limit (ish) but just three or four times during the journey and only for a second each time it 'missed' but not enough for me to want to stop and investigate. The next symptom to manifest itself was the inability of the engine to idle which only showed up when we got up into the mountains. I put this down to the altitude at the time but we got to our destination and once there were pre-occupied with family and hardly used the car.
The journey back up through France the following Saturday was completely different in terms of traffic. The whole of France seemed to be out in their cars which meant that there were tail-backs approaching all the peage tolls. I had great difficulty keeping the engine running in this and frequently had to restart the engine when it fluttered and died. On several occasions when I turned the key to the start position there was no response but when I turned the ignition back to off and tried again it worked and the engine fired up.
We proceeded like this up as far as Reims at which point there was absolutely no response from the starter in spite of many attempts turning the ignition off/on.
The guy with the recovery truck managed to get the starter to turn over by fiddling about behind the engine and bypassing the switch but of course could'nt keep it running because of the idling issue so we were hurriedly loaded onto the tail-lift and carted off the motorway to a Renault dealership where the car stayed until it was moved to the Lancia garage in Laon.
I'm hoping that with the bits I'm posting and the Neiman part that David Thomas is forwarding direct, the French garage can get the car to run so that I can at least recover it back into the UK.

Best regards, Murf.     

[fay66]

Pete,
Good luck with the car if you need anything else from the manual let me know, or if you want anything emailed to the Garage in Laon.
Definitely sounds like the idling circuit that I've posted the details of, and what is normally known as the idle control valve, these have a tendency to get gummed up, on Dedra you can take these off and leave the mechanical part of the valve soaking in WD40 or similar overnight that often loosens up the deposits in them, but I'm not sure just how easy it is to do that with Thema, if that doesn't work then it's hand in pocket for a new valve, often available on line a lot cheaper than buying from Lancia. see http://www.worldcarparts.co.uk/OurProducts/IdleAirControlValve/tabid/430/Default.aspx if in doubt you can ring their number for help to determine the part you need.
I'd also be inclined to check and clean the petrol deposits as I've suggested from around the butterfly and shaft inside the air intake.
What has Dave Thomas ordered for you? sounds more like the switch itself is worn, rather than the lock body.
Brian
8227

[murf]

Hi Brian, Just to update you on the situation with the stranded SW. The garage have fitted the parts which were shipped out and the car is now running I'm told, but they have not dealt with the idling problem.Thats going to be down to me to resolve when the car is back home.
 I am going to have to nurse it back to the UK hoping that I can keep the engine from stalling if I hit heavy traffic.
Axa assistance have arranged hire cars to get me back to Laon next Monday. I hate to think how much my insurance premium is going to be hiked next year!!, so I'll keep my fingers crossed that the return trip is without incident. Best regards, Murf.

[fay66]

Hi Brian, Just to update you on the situation with the stranded SW. The garage have fitted the parts which were shipped out and the car is now running I'm told, but they have not dealt with the idling problem.Thats going to be down to me to resolve when the car is back home.
 I am going to have to nurse it back to the UK hoping that I can keep the engine from stalling if I hit heavy traffic.
Axa assistance have arranged hire cars to get me back to Laon next Monday. I hate to think how much my insurance premium is going to be hiked next year!!, so I'll keep my fingers crossed that the return trip is without incident. Best regards, Murf.

Good luck Murf, fingers and legs crossed
Is she going to David Thomas to sort out the problem? if so I'd be happy to loan him the Series 3 Workshop manual for you if it's of assistance.

Brian
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