Dedra Turbo sensible everyday car?

[Duncan23]

I currently drive a Skoda Superb TDi. I'm bored of it, and have seen a decent Dedra Turbo for a reasonable price. It would have to be my main family transport (hopefully not quite a daily as I plan on cycling to work when it's not icy), and it would have to be parked on my (sloping) driveway as there's a knackered Beta Spider in the garage.

While I would love a working Lancia, I will be in a lot of trouble if I replace a sensible reliable car with one that breaks!

So, I would love to hear your opinions.

Cheers
Duncan

[fay66]

I currently drive a Skoda Superb TDi. I'm bored of it, and have seen a decent Dedra Turbo for a reasonable price. It would have to be my main family transport (hopefully not quite a daily as I plan on cycling to work when it's not icy), and it would have to be parked on my (sloping) driveway as there's a knackered Beta Spider in the garage.
While I would love a working Lancia, I will be in a lot of trouble if I replace a sensible reliable car with one that breaks!
So, I would love to hear your opinions.
Cheers
Duncan

Hello Duncan,
Dedra Turbo's are a bit more fragile in daily use IMHO, but although I never ran a turbo, all five of mine being 2.0, I never had a problem in winter with them over 15 years, apart from when the handbrake cable froze up on one of them, but this turned out to be due to a split boot which had let water in that froze, so hardly a fault with the car.
Being that the newest RHD Dedra's are 15 years old now, it would certainly be worth checking for rust protection, they had a lot of galvanised panels so if it's been looked after it shouldn't be a big problem, although the normal things that go wrong in winter should be checked.
Dedra Turbo also has visco drive on the offside drive shaft to stop grabbing under acceleration which should be handy in the snow.
Should think it will be a lot more fun if not as economical as the Skoda.
You just need to check all the electrics  work as some of them are hard to replace nowadays, headlights are another thing to watch as RHD headlamps and foglights are hard to get hold of.
But have a look at my original guide for the bits to check.
Any help you need just let me know.

Brian
8227

[Lindsay]

I currently drive a Skoda Superb TDi. I'm bored of it, and have seen a decent Dedra Turbo for a reasonable price. It would have to be my main family transport (hopefully not quite a daily as I plan on cycling to work when it's not icy), and it would have to be parked on my (sloping) driveway as there's a knackered Beta Spider in the garage.

While I would love a working Lancia, I will be in a lot of trouble if I replace a sensible reliable car with one that breaks!

So, I would love to hear your opinions.

Cheers
Duncan

A cracking idea but you must be insane!  I suppose a lot depends on what kind of mileage you do, and how much trouble you will be in when the thing breaks down!!   Don't underestimate the wallet drain on going from 45mpg of the Skoda to sub 30s with the Dedra. It will hurt, especially given fuel is not a shout off £6 a gallon these days. On the up side, no depreciation to speak of, a lot more fun than the Skoda and possibly cheaper to run, especially if you join the TDC to get bits for it.

[j886atv]

I myself subscribe to the bangernomics view of motoring

My Alfa 155 is pushing 15 years old - and based broadly on the same floorplan as the Dedra.
You WILL see more cash going out on bits and bobs as things wear out, but the flip side is at time to change - there is no depreciation to speak of.

Cars of this age are still serviceable, and enjoyable, but can be wearing - my advice is to have 2 modes of transport available just in case (we have a Ford Focus as my wife's car) - but so far, in the 3 years I've had the Alfa it hasn't let me down.

Do it - at least there will be some joy in ownership of your mode of transport again.

Duncan
(a different one)

[DavidLaver]

I ran a Dedra Turbo as an everyday car - that was 9 years ago and when BWE were arround and John Day worked there and he lived round the corner and could pick it up on his way past. 

In the severe cold the speedo would flick up and down but no other electrical gremlins.  We had a couple of failures, I think one was a fuel pump and the other a CV joint, and so with a small baby and two busy careers it went.  The replacement was a two year old low milage Audi A4 1.8 turbo Avant which looked lovely, had a lovely looking interior, but was horrid to sit in, horrid to drive, and no end of electrical and mechanical trouble.  However the dealer would always leave a loan car and bend so far backwards they could smile at you through their legs.  That got replaced after 3 years and a hellish depreciation with a 20 year old W124 Merc 300TE which is now 217,000 up and counting and while no stranger to the garage gets forgiven anything.

Doorbell just gone so more later...

David

[Angle Grinder]

Can't really comment on the Dedra, but I do run a 1990 Thema V6 auto as a daily car and it lives outside on the drive all year. The Thema is an excellent car if you want a daily Lancia that you can run with relatively little cost and grief.

In the last 3 years, I've only had to replace a rubber gaiter on the steering rack, change a handbrake cable, change one rear brake caliper and get a new flexi section welded into the exhaust pipe.

My 20yr old Thema has been far more reliable than my wife's 2001 Citroen Xsara and 2005 Renault Laguna.

I previously ran a 1988 Thema Turbo 8v, and that was a fantastically reliable car. It did 30mpg on the motorway and would return 27-28mpg when driven in a mix of town and motorway. I sold the car to Brian Phipps about 6 yrs ago and he currently has it for sale for £1200. I fitted an 8.32 leather interior to it and it really is 100% rust free and mint condition. You can see pictures at this link http://www.lancia-tdc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=180 as it advertised on the Thema Dedra Consortium website for Brian. I think it is still available.

So my advice would be get a Thema, they have far fewer rust problems than a Dedra and they are better built, in my opinion. 

[DavidLaver]

...guests gone.   So a clonky CV joint and a fuel pump failure was all that Dedra did to us, but as I said at that point I couldn't justify a "hobby car" and the servicing being from an eccentric and (sometimes!!) moody specialist halfway accross town. 

Alas the Audi turned out NOT to be the "annual service" car we expected, nor a quality item in any shape or form, or a car with rock solid residuals.  Others have told me "it could have been worse" than we had it with that Audi and of course plenty have got worse tails to tell.   

I came to the conclusion that with an "Italian passion" marque the problems are almost bragged about as a badge of loyalty, while with the "sensible Germans/Sweeds" there's a conspiracy of silence and people keep veeery quiet about the problems they've had.  My dad's five year old Volvo costs him an arm and a leg every year on all sorts of dumb and irritating stuff.  A friend had the engine fail on a six month old BMW.  We were absolutely not alone with our Audi woes.  Love or hate Clarkeson he at least tells it straight as regards reliablity (lack of...) and customer satisfaction (lack of...) with Mercedes.  Range Rover?  Jaguar?

In terms of economy with the Dedra Turbo it would do over 30mpg, but I could also get sub 20mpg from it - but since then cameras are everywhere and speed humps all over and I now shudder to think about the places I tried to beat 100mph.  Driven the way I do now I'd expect high 20s day to day and well over 30mpg on a run.

I say go for it - you'll have zero or negative depreciation and the parts and expertise are about to keep it on the button.  Without depreciation or the need for main-dealer stamps that's a LOT of money in the kitty towards fuel and the occasional rental car should you get caught short on a clutch change or something major.  You should also start collecting tails-of-woe from people with modern "sensible" cars so you know that even if you get problems the grass really is no greener the other side of the fence.

In return you get a fab-u-lous machine.  I got to drive an Integrale this year and all it did were bring back memories of that Dedra and remind me of the ways a Dedra is so superior to an Integrale.  The engine is the same. Really super spooky smooth with its ballancer shafts.  SOOO much torque.  Just the right balance between sounding great without being intrusive.  From memory the Dedra's wastegate phhhraaa was more lovely.  With that visco-gizmo front diff a Dedra Turbo is not short of traction either.  That lift-off tuck-in / power-on drive-wide behavour just the same. 

On the plus side for a Dedra it doesn't sound like a snare drum.  I thought the Integrale ride was harsh until I realised that I could hear every bump even if I didn't feel them.  A Dedra is (was?) a properly screwed togeather car with a beautiful dash and interior not the hotch potch of crap plakkie.  The ride and seats are great.  There's a trade off with a fair bit of roll, and pressing on on a b-road a wierd low frequency bounce from the back BUT the benefit is that you CAN press on with adults aboard reading their papers or snoozing without complaint.  Its an absolute monster mile eater.  Its London to the Lakes in time for 11ses sort of car.  Its the sort of car you want to drive out for skiing as you enjoyed both the run out and mountain time in it last year.  It very much a rain or shine car - very stable in cross winds and not bothered by bumps or puddles.  Really decent boot, and with the spoiler on the back doesn't look as fat-arsed as a regular Dedra.  Other happy memories are as a tow car - and with the Austin 7 behind still able to outdrag anything away from a rounderbout.  Alas the A1 has lost most of those

It sounded lovely, great gear change, faultless steering.

Do it - and make me jealous!!   

Every time one comes up in the adverts I have a think about it but we can't justify a second car and the one we do run has to pretend its a van half the time.   With some disposable income I'd have another like a shot.  With a lottery win I'd try and find some of those electronically adjustable dampers to kill that fully loaded bounce. 

Is there anything to match the all round ability?   Of course I'd love to try an 832, and every time a Thema Turbo (Robin...) sits there at a bargain price I get the same itch...  One day!!
   
David

[DavidLaver]

Just looked at that Thema add - and now have that terrible itch again...     

Can I keep convincing myself a Thema is no substitute?  Then again three kids should fit better accross the back seat of a Thema than a Dedra.  But it's more car to park and its got to be more thirsty given the brick shape and frontal area.  The Dedra dash is lovely - anyone got a picture of one at night?

Am splitting hairs - and I shouldn't even think about it for a year or so yet.

VERY fond memories of mine. 

Chugga sold his Integrale and held onto his Dedra Turbo.

David

[Duncan23]

To answer some Qs:

I intend doing about 10,000 miles.

The Superb is a 52 plate with 150,000 miles on it. The engine will go on a lot longer, but I had to replace the boot locking mechanism and an alternator idler in September (which cost 400 quid), so it's not quite the cheap to run car you might think. It's started on the button and not broken down for a year and a half though...

I won't have a second car (until the Beta is restored), but I can get about by bike when it's not icy.

I'm less enthused by a Thema because the main complaints I have about the Superb are the size, the lack of folding rear seats and the diesel, and the Thema fails on 2 of those counts.

The Dedra I have seen is solid except for the rear passenger door, which isn't too bad. It has a repaired headlamp, but all the other points are ok.
I'm really tempted, and a lot of the comments are positive, but the poll result is pretty negative. That makes me wonder how good an idea it is. 

Cheers
Duncan

[DavidLaver]

The size of a Dedra is great.  Never had a complaint for legroom front or rear.  I expect a bit of a squeeze for three full size (or over!!) across the back.  The width is handy and the visability great to place the car.  Its a really lovely thing to drive - so precise but at the same time comfortable.  I never used to slow for a width restriction - that Audi was not the same at all.  A Merc 300TE you can forgive having to slow down to squeeze through as its a big old load lugger but that Audi rode like a board and got harsh and noisy at speed and SHOULD have been so much better in that (and so many other) regards.

What do the rest of the family think about the idea?   

David

[DavidLaver]

That Skoda could throw you a 1000 bill for a computermaboblette any time...

David

[Angle Grinder]

I've scrapped a few Dedras for the TDC, one thing that does need to be checked carefully is the rear wheel arches. If the owner will let you, pull back the boot trim and shine a torch into the cavities to look for signs of rust and repairs. It seems that a lot of Dedras left the factory without enough wax sealant injected into the cavity where the rear wing meets the inner wheelarch.

Regarding folding rear seats in the Thema, true my old 8v Turbo with the 8.32 interior doesn't have this feature, but the boot is so cavernous that you'll get an enormous amount in with ease. From memory, it has the boot access arm rest thing for long objects too. I managed to get an entire engine subframe for a Thema into a boot without putting the seats down.

As for size, a Thema really isn't a big car when compared to your average family car these days. A Skoda Superb is surely as big if not bigger?

For me, the Thema has the edge style wise. After stripping a lot of Themas and Dedras, I'd say that the Thema is easier to work on and better engineered. But I am biased as I've owned 6 of them.

[Duncan23]

That Skoda could throw you a 1000 bill for a computermaboblette any time...

And there's a known issue with waterproofing the ECU! It's probably only worth 1500 quid anyway, so it's almost bangernomics teritory already. IfI keep it I may try biodiesel!

My wife was ambivalent, and then when I got back from the test drive  said that she likes the Superb. Because it's big and is a nice colour (she doesn't drive)  . My 16 month old has no input as she can't talk!  

I had a good look at the wheelarches and a quick look at the rear turrets from inside. Looked solid and like original paint in there. The only issues I could see were the door, the headlamp (the wiper arms had been removed too) and a little rust under the headlamp.
Superbs have a stupidly big boot (I'm 6 foot and strugle to reach  the back without getting into the boot),but folding seats mean bikes and longer thngs fit. The same would be true of the Thema.

Cheers
Duncan

[fay66]

I had a good look at the wheelarches and a quick look at the rear turrets from inside. Looked solid and like original paint in there. The only issues I could see were the door, the headlamp (the wiper arms had been removed too) and a little rust under the headlamp.
Superbs have a stupidly big boot (I'm 6 foot and strugle to reach  the back without getting into the boot),but folding seats mean bikes and longer thngs fit. The same would be true of the Thema.

Cheers
Duncan
[/quote]
While Mike is biased in the direction of Themas, I'm still a bit biased towards Dedras, even though I've had Themas, as I said before it's horses for courses, a Thema is still limited by the size of the boot aperture, admittedly large, and while the boot aperture on Dedra is probably smaller, the advantage of being able to drop the rear seats completely flat is a real winner, and if need be you can get a bit of extra length by folding over the front passenger seat squab. I used to be able to get Kyak double paddles in without much problem, and a bike will also go in without too much problem as well, ideal Lancia for you if he hasn't sold it yet, is John Nicholson's Dedra 1.8 LHD Estate that I posted for sale  on here a while ago for him.
http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3209.0
I would agree with Mike about the Dedra rear inner wings may have holes, although most of those I've seen are repairable, the point about no wax injection maybe correct, but even then it's a galvanised panel.  if it needs repairing despite what the workshop manual says, you can remove a rear wing without having to remove the glass to repair the inner.
I know Dedras can rot, which is why I stress having a good look, but my own ownership and dealings with many Dedra owners over 15 years, doesn't lead me to the same conclusions as Mike, fact of life is TDC only gets them to break when most of them are past the point of repair anyway, although TDC has to my knowledge put at least one of them back on the road.  Themas may not have the same problems as Dedra, but also have their own Achilles heels such as the rear suspension, and propensity for breaking 16v cambelts, so it's pay your money and take your choice.

brian
8227

[chugga boom]

After approx 7 yrs of dedra ownership and 3yrs of dedra turbo ownership i have just a few pointers for you, alot of the mechanical parts are totally different to the non turbo varients so are fairly scarce for replacements, i solved this problem by buying a scrap car for 1p off ebay which i still have more or less complete, they are no where near as complex or tempremental as quattros, yes they do have rust issues but nothing that cant be fixed, fuel consumption is not good but they are immence fun if you get a sorted one, another point of view is that my girlfriend has a 2005 astra cdti, 50+ mpg cappable of 120 mph nippy car but also an absolute pile of c**p, its nowhere near as reliable as the dedra and everything is rediculas money for it, by comparison the dedras clutch cost me £130 for parts only however the astra cost me £705 parts only, egr valve for a dedra was approx £40 astra was £350, wipers went mental on the astra where you couldnt turn them off , control unit failed £600+vat!!!, injectors on the astra were £1200+vat new or £600+vat recon, the car owes us so much now its uneconomical to sell it however the dedra owes me far less!!, most really modern cars have way to much electronics on them and when they get to 5yrs old or so they fall appart, my opinion is if you get a good older car run it into the ground unless you can afford a new car every 3yrs, as an everyday vehicle i run a berlingo van , i used to have a 1998 model and exchanged it for a 2005 model, BIG MISTAKE!!! again electronic faults , body computer failure is £1000+fitting + vat and a common failure, hope this helps james