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Author Topic: A B20 Story  (Read 126490 times)
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the.cern
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« Reply #330 on: 11 May, 2015, 04:21:51 PM »

Thank you for your thoughts David.

Did you see the tool suggested by Simon, that could grip right at the bottom of the stud. I hope to get one of those.

As for removing the sheared studs, leaving it for someone else to do sounds very tempting. As you say, I will have quite a list for the machine shop, maybe they could chuck those in gratis!!!!

I will see how I get on with those remaining.

As an aside, I have had more success on the side where a generous coating of Red Hermatite had been applied. Presumably this sealed the stud/block interface and thus helped keep the corrosion to a minimum.

Tomorrow is another day!!!!

                      Andy
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #331 on: 11 May, 2015, 04:24:55 PM »


Same tool.  Its not nice but its a bit more polite than big b*stard grippers of whatever description.
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David Laver, Lewisham.
the.cern
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« Reply #332 on: 11 May, 2015, 04:34:47 PM »

Brian, thank you for your comments and advice throughout this saga. Firstly, the Workmate, I have two of these, one was my father's, the other belonged to my father-in-law. Both were retirement gifts ... not sitting on one's bottom upon retirement seems to be an inherited trait.

Heat!!!! I am by nature somewhat cautious. In all my delving into the web looking for advice I have found many have suggested heat. An equal number caution against it for studs in alloy castings. Cast iron is not a problem, but alloy is. Therefore I will steer clear of heat, at least for the time being.

                             Andy
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the.cern
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« Reply #333 on: 11 May, 2015, 04:36:34 PM »

David, I've tried the big b*astard grippers. A waste of time and energy getting them out of the tool box!!!!

                                                Andy
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Niels Jonassen
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« Reply #334 on: 11 May, 2015, 07:15:36 PM »

There is one problem with the stud extractor suggested: it needs room, and that room is not available with all the studs. You can also get stud ectractors which look like box spanners. They need less room. Before attempting to remove the stubborn studs I'd spray them with a cold spray. It cools them down so they shrink. If you grind the studs down so they are level with the engine surface I think that you should make a guide and then mill your way down using a 7mm mill. If you are very precise you can use an 8mm one, but then you'll definitely have to fit Helicoils or some other sort of thread. Perhaps this operation is better left to a machine shop.
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ColinMarr
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« Reply #335 on: 12 May, 2015, 01:32:27 PM »

Andy,

Congratulations on your ingenious and effective way of lifting the heads very clever! I was a bit sceptical about whether or not it would work and I guess I was influenced by horror stories from the past when other folk had enormous problems in getting the heads off engines that had stood for a while. I recall 30 years ago someone hanging a B20 engine from one head while banging the block to try and get it to move. And over 40 years ago knowing a friend with an Appia who had a long tubular trepanning cutter made to slide over the studs and cut away the corrosion that was sealing it on.

A better design of stud extractor is the type that goes over the stud with rollers that tighten against the shank see photos. The one I have is 8mm I am unlikely to be using it for the foreseeable future (sadly!) and you are welcome to borrow it. I can easily post it to you.

Also of interest might be this website, which gives a good account of drilling out broken studs and other aspects of B20 engine rebuild:http://lanciaaurelia3c.nl/3C-GB-V6%20Aurelia%20Mania%202.pdf

Colin


* IMG_6153.JPG (184.94 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 250 times.)

* IMG_6156.JPG (151.63 KB, 2048x1536 - viewed 260 times.)
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the.cern
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« Reply #336 on: 13 May, 2015, 09:00:11 PM »

Sunday and Monday were the 'attack the studs' days. Yesterday was a day off from the car as I wasside tracked to my wife's shop due to staffing problems, Add to that a sickness bug elsewhere in the family and I did not even have time to think about the car let alone do any work!!!

Today was different. Not the studs, both David and Colin are sending me a stud tool so I thought best to leave things until they arrive. It will be interesting to see how they compare with each other and also the two nut method used thus far.

No, today was remove the sump day. I had already removed the timing chain cover  so the front had nothing connecting the block and sump. At the rear of the engine I removed the oil seal and a phone call to Morris Parry revealed the need to remove the M8 bolt at the rear of the sump. That done I undid the the nuts on the M6 studs that secure the sump to the block. In doing so two studs came out and, oh dear, I sheared a stud!!! The sump then came free to reveal the crankshaft etc, all of which was coated in oil and looked in good order. A real change from all the problems found in the heads and cylinders!!!! That was as far as I got, hopefully tomorrow I will be able to get to the big ends, well some of them!!! Quite how I will get to the others remains to be seen!!!! I should have checked that before I left this afternoon.

A couple of photographs .....

More to follow ...

                      Andy


* B20 engine upright sump offphoto.JPG (513 KB, 1296x968 - viewed 275 times.)

* B20 engine inverted sump offphoto.JPG (573.41 KB, 1296x968 - viewed 285 times.)

* B20 engine inverted sump off from the front.JPG (592.5 KB, 1296x968 - viewed 272 times.)
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #337 on: 13 May, 2015, 09:20:23 PM »


That's an encouraging sight!!!

Have you a photo of the extra M8 bolt at the rear you had to remove?  What is it for or attach to?
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David Laver, Lewisham.
lancialulu
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« Reply #338 on: 13 May, 2015, 09:23:39 PM »

Must say a vast improvement in condition compared to the top end. You may have to resort to magic potions to free the pistons before the crank can rotate for access to the other big ends....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
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the.cern
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« Reply #339 on: 13 May, 2015, 10:21:45 PM »

Must say a vast improvement in condition compared to the top end. You may have to resort to magic potions to free the pistons before the crank can rotate for access to the other big ends....

Magic potions or a big hammer!!!!!
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fay66
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« Reply #340 on: 13 May, 2015, 10:35:58 PM »

Must say a vast improvement in condition compared to the top end. You may have to resort to magic potions to free the pistons before the crank can rotate for access to the other big ends....

Magic potions or a big hammer!!!!!
Original cocacola works wonders!

Must admit looking at the studs to remove I wouldn't be happy using the two nut method ,as I think with the length of stud and all the thread at the top, you might break the stud.
Both of the special tools grip lower down, and while I like Colin's tool which is no doubt ideal for normal removal of  good condition studs, I think the other has less chance of breaking a stud, bearing in mind how low down it grips the stud.
Brian
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chriswgawne
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« Reply #341 on: 14 May, 2015, 06:50:06 AM »

I have one of David's stud extractors and it has been ok but I don't like the fact that it is exerting its pressure slightly eccentrically..if you get what I mean. Colin' s meanwhile does not have this problem and I must buy one.
 In my experience, if a stud is going to break it does so either where it is necked due to corrosion just above the block thread.......or where there is a slight weak point just above the block thread! The same place.
Chris
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Chris Gawne
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #342 on: 14 May, 2015, 07:50:30 AM »


I also liked the look of Colin's - and it was hard work resisting buying a set.

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
fay66
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« Reply #343 on: 14 May, 2015, 09:51:08 AM »

I have one of David's stud extractors and it has been ok but I don't like the fact that it is exerting its pressure slightly eccentrically..if you get what I mean. Colin' s meanwhile does not have this problem and I must buy one.
 In my experience, if a stud is going to break it does so either where it is necked due to corrosion just above the block thread.......or where there is a slight weak point just above the block thread! The same place.
Chris
I agree Chris but I think applying pressure right at the top of the stud is more likely to break the stud as oppossed to applying the pressure at the base of the stud, and I take your point about the eccentricity of Dsvids extractor.

Brian
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #344 on: 14 May, 2015, 01:32:00 PM »


What I don't like about mine is the teeth.  It will be interesting to peer down Colin's type and hear how well it grips. 

In terms of it applying force off centre perhaps having it sit absolutely flush on the deck, or on some sort of spacer plate, might provide support against a bending load?
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David Laver, Lewisham.
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