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Author Topic: A B20 Story  (Read 136990 times)
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Niels Jonassen
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Posts: 122


« Reply #210 on: 05 June, 2014, 01:46:14 PM »

You will find it difficult to find a wiring diagramme with colours indicated. All wires were black with small numbered metal bits fitted to the ends. The best solution is to pull out all wires and begin from cratch using the diagramme. Remember to number the wires at both ends. It can be done succesfully; I did it many years ago, and everything still works.
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chriswgawne
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« Reply #211 on: 05 June, 2014, 04:30:23 PM »

Thats what I do as well Niels and I am just doing a front and rear early S4 B20 loom at present......but I tend to use modern wire which has thinner insulation than original for the lower demand circuits. The core is still up to the job spec wise so no safety issues and it seems to make for a tidier job..
Chris
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Chris Gawne
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Sebastien
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« Reply #212 on: 05 June, 2014, 06:38:22 PM »

Tidier job: yes, the original wire is a bit thick, and in some places, especially at the fuse box, it gets crowded!


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the.cern
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« Reply #213 on: 05 June, 2014, 07:24:20 PM »


Tanc Barratt did that once - like all the cuts of meat.  If I have a photo its chemical not digital and buried.

If you could exhume the photo David I would really love to see it!!

                                 Andy
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the.cern
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« Reply #214 on: 05 June, 2014, 08:36:55 PM »

Thank you Niels, Chris and Sebastien, my investigations to date suggest that thinwall wiring would be a great advantage, so long as the wires do not look too thin and therefore spoil the appearance of the finished job.

I had removed the steering column and that is wired with single colour wires. From what you have said that would appear to be a re-wire carried out before my ownership.

However, to day I removed the dashboard and whilst the majority of the wiring is black there are six blue wires which appear to be original. They are about 44 no. 0.2mm dia strand, giving maybe 1.4mm squared. I will replace these with 28/0.3 cable which provides 2mm squared with a 2.7mm OD compared to the 3.3mm OD of the existing cable. There are grey cables of the same size serving the push switch to the left of the speedo and also some black cables the same size. There is a red cable connected to what I think is the wiper switch, but that appears to be a relatively recent addition. All the other wires are smaller and black and will be replaced with appropriate thinwall cable.

I need a little more time to measure the cable sizes and lengths feeding the dash and then I can move onto those serving the lights and other remote locations before compiling a shopping list which must also include terminals, junctions, PVC sleeving etc. Delivered today were two lengths of rubber tubing that I will use to sleeve the wires feeding the front lights. I have the copper bends that pass through the inner wings etc but will need to have a think about the grommets through which they pass, they are rather tired. Of course I would like to replace them, does anyone have any spare or possibly know of a source?

I should get a little more time for investigation tomorrow and Jim is coming round to play over the weekend so I am hopeful we will make more progress.

                                             Andy
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the.cern
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« Reply #215 on: 09 June, 2014, 06:34:10 PM »

Well, Jim must have been well-behaved last week because he was allowed out to play!!

Right, get the doors hung ... should not be too difficult!! Both doors had been repaired, they had started to rot on the front, rear and bottom edges where the doorskin is spot welded to the frame. Jim had drilled out the spot welds and cut out the rotten steel, a strip about 60mm wide on each edge and welded in oversize strips as repair pieces. The doorskins are not clenched over the frame, the usual method of fabrication, but spot welded on and cut to size.

So the MO, hang the door with the front edge behind the front wing, close the door as much as possible, mark the doorskin, remove the door and cut the front edge to suit. Re-hang the door and close it as far as the oversize bottom repair strip will allow. Then, trim the bottom repair strip progressively to fit, working from front to back, the door closing more and more as the bottom is trimmed to fit, . Once the bottom has been completely sorted the door will very nearly shut, there remains only the rear edge to be trimmed. Trim the rear edge, et voila!!!! Simples.

So it was for the right-hand side, the door on and off four times, but no real problems and it was done. Now for the left-hand side .... all went well, front marked and trimmed, door re-hung, bottom trimmed to fit and then TROUBLE hit us in the face!!! Somehow the door had dropped, we cannot fathom it. The hinge element on the A post is welded on, that on the door is bolted directly to the frame, the door opening was solidly braced during the repairs and the top of the door fits perfectly in length. Needless to say there were a few expletives, but we stoically determined the way forward ........... pack the bottom hinge by 3mm to give the necessary 6mm lift at the rear of the door. Of course, it did the trick perfectly, but of course there was a price to pay!!! The lovely panel gap at the front of the door had now opened up by 3mm and looked awful!!!!  So, off with the door, weld a strip, oversize, on the front edge, shape it, grind the weld etc etc, not a 5 minute job, ready to re-hang the door and trim it to shape again. Such is life, Jim has gone to play with Humbers for 5 weeks so it will be a while until the door is finally hung and trimmed!!! In the meantime, I am looking at the wiring, but that is another story!!! To be continued ......

                                     Andy
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DavidLaver
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« Reply #216 on: 09 June, 2014, 06:49:30 PM »


Good progress for all its hard won.

David
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David Laver, Lewisham.
Kevin MacBride
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« Reply #217 on: 09 June, 2014, 07:42:07 PM »

I re-wired my own car with coloured wiring. Spent a bit of time deciding on what colours suited the various circuits, and made notes. I had used the original wiring as well as one of the wiring diagrams in the Club Workshop Manual as a guide, and then had a large photocopy of the wiring diagram made up, with a few modifications to suit the finished result.
With the 3rd series car I had been working on over the past few years, I again re-wired with coloured wires, but this time I ran a black 'shrink fit' sleeve over each wire, long enough to cover each coloured wire down as far as where the wires were grouped together. These bundles were covered with the original plastic sleeve. I re attached as best I could each metal numbered tag, but you could still see enough of the colour to make things easy to line up. Very long and tedious job, but the end result was good.
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B20 4th series (having a 'facelift')

2000 sedan
Fiat Multipla
Fiat Cinquecento
the.cern
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« Reply #218 on: 09 June, 2014, 08:17:10 PM »

Just a quick up-date on the wiring .....

I have prepared a schedule of materials, with quantities for the re-wiring and was just about to place an order with Auto Electric Supplies when I came across the Autosparks website. I have put another post up about their offer of harnesses. They do not offer one for the B20, but are open to requests. Needless to say, I have requested a price for a B20 harness. Robin, aka dilambdaman, states that they supplied one for the Fanalone and it was excellent. So, the order for the schedule of materials is on hold!!!!

The dashboard has been removed and stripped of instruments, switches etc and also stripped of paint and primer/filler. It looks very good as bare aluminium!!

A few photographs to show what has to be replaced ...... and where we are at!

Hopefully, in order ... tacho instrument cluster
                              speedo instrument cluster
                              switches
                              dashboard as removed rear
                              dashboard as removed front
                              spaghetti
                              rear of fusebox
                              dashboard naked


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the.cern
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« Reply #219 on: 09 June, 2014, 08:37:11 PM »

Points of interest ......

1)  did you spot the cables held into the end switch with matchsticks (3rd photo)?  No, I was not responsible for that!!
2)  the delightful attempts at openings for the radios. I was not responsible for them either!!
3)  on a sensible note ... the blue wires behind the dash and even more obviously behind the fusebox are, I am certain, part of the original wiring installation!!!

Kevin, I am impressed with your attention to detail with that rewiring job, using individual shrink sleeves on coloured wiring!!!! Most commendable.  I also intend to try to re-use the aluminium numbered tags on the ends of the wires. I am not sure how readily they will come off, or indeed if they will be re-usable, so I will order a set of plastic ones which hopefully need only be used in hidden locations. Which raises the question, is it possible to buy new aluminium numbered tags?

                                        Andy
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chriswgawne
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« Reply #220 on: 10 June, 2014, 07:47:54 AM »

Yes it is possible to buy aluminium tags. They are sold in 'kits' for old Fiats etc but I have only ever seen them at Italian Autojumbles on a wiring supplier stand. They may well be available on the internet these days. There is a sort of 'numbering convention' with old Italian car wiring  so a Fiat kit for example will have tags with the correct numbers for an Aurelia.
Chris
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Chris Gawne
Mobile: 07778 216552
Charles T
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Posts: 45



« Reply #221 on: 14 June, 2014, 07:49:46 AM »

Hi Andy,

My S6 also uses blue wires from the dashboard to the fuse board.
They are mainly associated with the headlight circuits, and are also original.

In general, I have found that the original connectors have become tarnished with age, leading to poor connections.
Recent problems with headlights have been cured by replacing the connectors.


Charles


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the.cern
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« Reply #222 on: 25 June, 2014, 09:30:49 PM »

Some help please. I wish to get a replacement 'label plate' for the fusebox on my B20, The one on my car is totally illegible, quite useless.I hope to avoid having to resort to a new reproduction which would look out of place. Does anyone have one that is legible and available?

Also, I am still trying to get some of the special grommets that are part of the wiring loom for the front lights. They hold the copper elbows as the loom passes into and out of the rear of the headlights, foglights and side lights.

                                                              Andy
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Parisien
Administrator
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« Reply #223 on: 04 July, 2014, 07:37:15 AM »

Any feedback from the firm who will/might make the wiring loom Andy?

P
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Frank Gallagher
the.cern
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« Reply #224 on: 20 July, 2014, 07:13:46 AM »

Any feedback from the firm who will/might make the wiring loom Andy?

P

I am still working on it!!!

           Andy
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