The Paul Atkinson - Augusta - news update [etc] ...

[donw]

Karl
the new tank unit look like solid gold!

[Kari]

"Karl the new tank unit look like solid gold!"

It did cost almost as such! However, considering the original made from MAZAK lasted 88 years, not that bad.

While the tank was out, I renewed the fuel tap seals as there was a slight leak. Before installing, I left the tap under some pressure for 24 hours to see if tight.

Karl

[MichaelElsom]

That's a vice and a half!

[Mark Dibben]

Hello Karl,

Ha - the more you tell mabout this little car the less I like!

Viz: "Foot starter: I prefer to start the engine without pressing the clutch pedal. This because avoiding damage to the axial bearing surfaces of the centre main bearing. By pressing the clutch pedal, the crankshaft is pulled back by considerable force into the axial bearing. There might be little or no lubrication as oil pressure has to build up first.  However, by not pressing the clutch pedal, some of the shafts and gears in the gearbox have to be turned with the starter motor, offering some (little) resistance. The Augusta manual does not mention any action by the clutch pedal when starting the engine."

Umm, do you really mean to say that depressing the clutch moves the crankshaft?!? :-0
What on earth was Mr Lancia thinking??
Well, that'll remind me to turn the engine over a few times before <contact!>.

I'm driving it tomorrow all being well, so yes will let you know.
In the meantime the full petrol tan saga from Chris himself can be found here: https://www.mcpheatautomotive.com/post/lancia-augusta-fuel-tank-saga

And here are three photos of the car from last week after Chris had taken it for a little drive.

Shall report more in the next couple of days.

[Mikenoangelo]

Hello Karl,

Ha - the more you tell mabout this little car the less I like! )

Wait until you drive it before thinking that!

Mike Clark

[Kari]

Good looking Gussie!

Well, moving the crankshaft fore or back was not invented by Lancia. All cars equipped with manual gearboxes are concerned. Therefore, it's also a bad habit to stand at the red light in gear and the clutch pedal depressed. The movement is a very small amount, on the Augusta engine less than a tenth of a mm. However there is a considerable force involved. In case of the Augusta, the clutch spring is compressed to a load of about 390 lbs, and depressing the clutch pedal will cause the crankshaft to be pulled axially back to the front side of the center bearing by this amount. (Thanks Mike Clark for the clutch data)

Attached a picture of the center bearing with a well worn axial bearing surface and other damage. And the crank with corresponding surfaces.

There is no reason to be worried! Just keep going and have fun.

Regards

Karl

[Mark Dibben]

Hello Karl and Mike,
Ta, it does look really lovely. Yes, thanks for the excellent description. Just shows you how little I know!
Chris gave me the verbal tutorial this morning, but then noted HE'D rebuilt it, it would be absolutely fine, all the crank bearings are sound and he's not worried at all about that.
I didn't drive the car today, but did get driven in it. You're right Mike, it's going to be great. Only two things to do, sort a bad steering wheel wobble and fit a fuel pump as, flat-out, the 'big' (well, in comparison with the carb that was on it as standard) SU is drinking fuel faster than the pipe can deliver it from the scuttle tank - even with the fuel filter removed.
It's going to be fun, it handles beautifully, has a nice quiet cabin (Chris completely lined it with Dynamat at the start of 'things' for me) that's very solid-feeling and extremely well packaged as you know anyway. The rebuilt engine with the balanced crank revs as smooth as smooth all the way to the 4k red-line, with that lovely V4 beat at idle, and - as you know too - for a 1931-designed 1200cc engine, it pulls very well indeed. It'll be flat out everywhere once the fuel pump's fitted.
Interestingly, the gear change is best 1st-2nd very quick. If you pause at all, you have to double-declutch. If you race-change, it goes straight in, and is quiet as a mouse too because of course Paul fitted the silent second modification when he rebuilt it. So with the synchro on the other two, it's like a modern gearbox.
Chris and Joe have done a really great job with the fuel tank, it matches the rocker cover perfectly. And the Augusta fuel cap with it's built-in dip stick now fits as if original.
Any ideas on the wheel wobble?
Going back up on the 26th March to drive it - flat out :-)
It'll be worth the wait.

[Kari]

Wheel wobble:
The wheels need to be balanced dynamically! My friendly tyre dealer uses self-sticking weights for motorbikes, they are only 1/2in wide. Best balance all wheels.

You have mentioned a silent second gear and synchro in your gearbox. Can you enlighten the Augusta fraternity on that subject? Thanks very much.

Karl

[Mark Dibben]

Hello Karl,
Yes, that's the strange thing because they were supposed to have been balanced when they were rebuilt. Ah well, we'll see.
I shall do I promise. The paper work for it is in the pile of papers that are n the back seat. I was so delighted having been driven in her for the first time since I bought her, I completely forgot - again - to pick it all up :-)
By the way, I think you were asking once about the bolts through the chassis plate on the bulkhead top. They're to secure the secondary reservoir for the hydraulic shock absorber adjustment - the one that the adjuster works to. It's so tightly packaged in around there that's clearly the only place they could do it.
I shall remember not depress the clutch while waiting at the traffic lights in my little Citroen C3 t-d when I head into Oxford this afternoon. But then I get a rattling thrust-race. Ha - sounds like a truck!
Thanks ever so much Karl for all your help and advice on this page; when I look through you've been keeping on this 'saga' for a very long time and I'm grateful. (Also to Mike for his suspension toolkit, without which we'd have been properly stuck).
Mark

[ColinMarr]

I envy you getting to know your Augusta, but let me ask a question of Kari. Kari, I am interested in your comments about wear on the main bearings from use of the clutch. Surely, with all conventional engines with clutches mounted on the flywheel there will be axial forces and wear taken up by the flanges on the bearings. Is there anything different about the Augusta engine in this respect? My habit over the years with all my cars has been to depress the clutch at start-up, to ease the load on the starter motor by saving it from also turning a cold and stiff gearbox.
Similarly, I am intrigued by the idea of synchromesh on Augusta. My memories of Aprilia and Augusta quick gearshifts is that the feeling of synchromesh is virtual and mostly in the imagination!

[Mikenoangelo]

Before you fit a fuel pump have you checked the actual rate of flow which the feed to the carburettor can pass? Disconnect the pipe from the float chamber and see how many cc flow per minute. I am sure if all is right with tap and filter the flow would feed any rate of consumption the Augusta would use. After all it  did work for Paul. Gravity feed works on many vintage cars with scuttle mounted fuel tanks, and even on  those with Autovacs the final feed to the carb is by gravity from the Autovac. My vintage Salmson has an SU fed from a scuttle tank and it works until the tank is empty.

Bear in mind that the fuel consumption at full throttle up hill could be 10mpg! My modern Kia has a live  display on the dash of current mpg which can drop below 1O mpg up hill although it averages 35mpg.

If the fuel flow would feed 10mpg then the problem must be wth the carb . Clearly it worked for Paul so something must have occurred during the layup before you got the car. The main jet can't block but the float chamber and the connection to the jet could. Is there a possiblity that the dashpot piston which lifts the jet needle is sticking?

Mike Clark

[Kari]

Colin,

To answer your question: AFAIK there is no difference regarding the trust bearings in other engines. The Augusta is different in the respect that in the original condition with foot starter there is just the one way to start it.
At the frequency most the Augusta owners use the their cars, there will be no problems with the trust bearings.

I remember, when I learned to drive, one would pull the handbrake, waggle the gear stick to check it was in neutral and start the engine.

But today everything is different. Drivers are encouraged or even must depress the clutch pedal, mainly for safety reasons and also to help the starter in cold weather. I understand that some modern cars are wired to inhibit the starter motor, when the clutch pedal is not depressed. (That would be the brake pedal for automatic gear boxes). The drivers manual of my Volvo V50 (2008) tells me to depress the clutch pedal on start-up. However, it can still be started without depressing it.

I look forward to hearing from Mike about the secrets of his gear box.

I support the suggestions of Mike Clark about checking the fuel flow. The Augusta has been running for almost 90 years without a fuel pump. Why not a few years more?

Regards  Karl

[brian]

I have had an SU for virtually the whole of my Augusta's life with me after I could not get it to work with a Zenith of which I had replaced, body, float, jets, linkage and top and it has never caused any problems. What jet have you got in it as that could make the difference. From memory I think mine is EB (ie named after Bugatti so memorable).
On another issue, in the last months it has occasionally jumped out of 3rd gear when pulling. I assume wear. I have 1 complete and 4/5th of other gearboxes of unknown provenance. Who would one trust to get a good un from all this? Slightly reluctant to not use the one in the car as a basis as 2nd is pretty quiet!

[MichaelElsom]

I agree with Mike. My Anzani engined Frazer Nash of 1496 cc has an SU carb which is gravity fed. I have never had trouble with fuel starvation even when ascending Alpine passes in that car. Like most carbs it doesn't like E10 petrol and a thorough clean might assist. On the Nash I have a finger filter in the scuttle tank which doesn't impose any restriction on flow until the very bottom of the tank is reached and the also the usual filter inside the float chamber lid.
In my experience the best cars are those which lack things rather than have them added - i.e no front wheel brakes, no electrical system (other than ignition of course!) and gravity feed for the fuel. SU pumps (or other electrical ditto) do have their own problems and you would certainly have to change the needle in the SU carb if you fitted a pump.
As someone else said, if it worked for Paul, there is a fair chance it should work for you. If sorting the items suggested by Mike doesn't cure the problem, access to a rolling road should help with needle selection.
I suspect that what will work best is a bit of use on the road before making any adjustments.

[Mark Dibben]

Thanks ever so much everyone for the thoughts on the fuel flow. Chris did clean and service the carburetor, but I've sent your thoughts on to him as it was a while ago. The one things that is interesting is the diameter of the drain pipe on the Belna tank is narrower than the one on the Augusta tank. Thanks again; shall report back! Mark