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Author Topic: Fulvia undervalued ?  (Read 831 times)
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RDG496
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« on: 28 April, 2021, 08:30:01 AM »

Im sure this has been mentioned before but why is the Fulvia undervalued vs the Alfa 105 models for example ?
Arguably it has a higher profile motorsport image and is in my eyes at least as pretty (I own GT Junior step front).
I can understand the preference of rear wheel drive for most car nuts, and fact the Alfa feels a little sportier to drive.
But the Lancia does feel more refined mechanically......suspension perhaps not.

My own thoughts i parts availability, and lesser online presence. The online content/videos/forums for the Alfa and more so the 911 is a treasure trove in info...especially for a layman like me.
But the main one given the growth and interest over the past few years is the modification/restomod upgrade path, similar to the 911 the Alfa can be transformed into whatever car you like....up to what currently seems to be now one of the best pure driving experiences available...Alfaholics GTA-R.....clearly at some cost !!!

I have also recently bought a 1969 911t so appreciate all 3 for what they are......I just struggle with the relatively low values of the Fulvia........ESPECIALLY when comparing to the prices to the British Classics of the period.

Often the first comment you hear mentioned on both the Alfa and Lancia is RUST.......but that applies to ALL cars of the age (late 60s Early 70s) regardless of brand.

Just something I was pondering this morning.



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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #1 on: 28 April, 2021, 08:43:00 AM »

I put it down to Alfa having maintained a sporting and sports car image which means there is a continuous supply of new potential owners for classic Alfas. Lancia haven't had anything sporting since the integrale and even that is more hot hatch than traditional sports car. Porsche likewise draw in new modern owners into their sporting heritage. Owners of new Lancias over recent decades haven't generally been performance car enthusiasts who would be drawn to the company's sporting heritage.
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RDG496
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« Reply #2 on: 28 April, 2021, 10:19:06 AM »

Very valid point, Lancia no longer exists in the UK hasn't done for sometime and what they do sell in other markets......is very sad indeed.
Alfa although having current offerings have only in recent years arguably started selling a product more befitting the badge (Giulia Quadrifoglio).
Porsche clearly a level up, although modern markets certainly having an impact on some of the models they are required to sell for economic reasons.
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Scott
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« Reply #3 on: 29 April, 2021, 12:02:00 PM »

This was touched on in this month's Viva Lancia referencing an article on the Adrian Flux website: https://www.adrianflux.co.uk/influx/cars/fulvia/. Although it doesn't answer its own question!

I've been surprised at the price of various classic Fords; cars considered pretty ordinary and commonplace in the main at one time. But they have the advantage of being relatable, having continued motorsport links, the kudos and lineage to todays ST and RS models etc. Neighbours and family will know it is cool without lots of explanation. Similar comments for Alfa and Porsche. More demand = higher prices. But Lancia? Disappeared from the UK over 25 years ago; currently sells an old model of car in Italy; what is that badge; explanations needed to neighbours and family etc.

In addition - massively broad sweeping statement time - a lot of people coming to the classic car scene will be someone who is at a stage in their life with a bit more disposable income and who remembers the cars they hankered after when they were younger but couldn't possibly afford. Hence the crazy prices of cars from the 1980s right now. Those folk are mid-50s plus - kids have left home; money is earning naff all in the bank; new cars are ordinary ... buy that old car they loved when they were younger. Step back a decade to the Fulvia and those folk are mid-60s now so I'd propose are a smaller group of buyers unless already involved with classics. All things being equal do they go for wildcard Fulvia or a more 'obvious' choice and as influenced by factors like those mentioned in the previous paragraph? I know what I'd go for but...!

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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #4 on: 29 April, 2021, 12:08:52 PM »

In the case of Fulvias they were a bit of a connoisseur's car when they were new considering what else you could buy for the money so perhaps less surprising that they are now tending to be obscure rather than mainstream desirable.
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RDG496
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« Reply #5 on: 29 April, 2021, 03:10:13 PM »

'Those folk are mid-50s plus - kids have left home; money is earning naff all in the bank; new cars are ordinary'

I'm almost in that bracket, kids still at home !

Interesting that the cars I guess would be poster cars for my age would be the Mid 80s/ Early 90s models are of no interest to me at all, the aesthetics, body design and interior just have no lure for me at all !
An quattro perhaps (my brother has one)......but it would be a stretch to say I'd like to own one.

And new cars.....as a family mode of transport yes 100%...but as an ownership/driving experience......categorically no.
Too fast too powerful too assisted too sanitised (Had a Porsche 911 997 I enjoyed it, had an F-Type was ok......but give me the oldies EVERY TIME....cost/design/drive...and the added bonus of no depreciation or even appreciation).




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DavidLaver
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« Reply #6 on: 29 April, 2021, 10:02:28 PM »


This reminds me of pub debates, oh happy days...

Fulvia SALOON prices are on the rise.  Hard to find a good one, and outstanding cars still.  I think with the coupes the power to weight (or weight to power) and lack of drama make them a connoisseur's choice, in that you have to know the rally heritage and have read the road tests and been for a long ride in one and then had a go in a few to understand that while the 0-60 isn't impressive and they don't hang the tail out the way they go down a bumpy straight and the way they're lovely over "all day" distances is what's special (as with most Lancias).  They take a while to build speed but then don't need to slow down for much.  They're also lovely as a passenger.  As a classic stuff like the all round visibility and huge boot and the peddles lining up that make a Fulvia Coupe a great car to live with aren't as important as the more "in your face" appeal of the Alfa for "a quick blast".  If I had the money and space (alas not my current circumstances) or for a cop out road test conclusion, perhaps I'd "take the Alfa for hill climbs and the Lancia for rallies".

I'm now 54, and in the 1980s it was cars of the 50s and 60s, or 20s and 30s that were my "pin ups" and that's not really changed. 

Cars of the 1980s I'd have...  Not something I've thought about as the "classic" cut off in London is VERY helpful with the low emissions zone on the way so 70s stuff gets debated.  We've a 1987 Mercedes 300TE that we bought 17 years ago and is still in "front line service". I'd struggle to replace that with anything I'd prefer. Our use is quite particular in that its either a couple of miles over speed bumps or a day on the motorway.  If it was all As and Bs the fact the steering wheel isn't really connected to anything might get wearing for all its fun every now and then to rock and roll down something twisty. Its more "log flume" than roller coaster "on rails" let alone "go kart", but its brilliant for what we want and the load space is great.

Off the top of my head an Alfa 164 still makes my day when I see one, as does a 1980s 3 series BMW of any type for all it was the 323 estate I'd have wanted back then.  Citroen CX is a big favourite, and I like both the 70s and 80s versions.  Not sure I'd pay money for any of those for all I'd love a go for a weekend or holiday.
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David Laver, Lewisham.
chriswgawne
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« Reply #7 on: 30 April, 2021, 10:51:06 AM »

I think its fair to say that not only Fulvias but also ALL pre-Fulvia Lancias are undervalued and this has been the case for at least the last 50 years.
Having said that, the benefit (cause or effect I am not sure?) is that Lancia owners are subtly different to the owners of other more valuable comparable makes/models and this rests easily with me. We have made several very good friends in the Lancia community over the years.
After all this is just a hobby isn't it?
Chris
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Chris Gawne
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« Reply #8 on: 30 April, 2021, 03:11:29 PM »

Well said Chris and interesting comments from all. This subject is very relevant to me and I have lots of parallels with other commentators. Iím 65 and have owned what is now a classic since 82. That was a low mileage 1975 2000 GTV Bertone and it was only 7 years old so really just a second hand car...but it was certainly an emerging classic (after all the basic model had been around since 1963) and I sold it not many years later for what was then a reasonable profit as it was a cosseted low milage example. I had bought it from Richard Banks long before he and sons started Alfaholics and tbh I think Richard was responsible at least in the UK for the (what was for a long time very slow) increase in financial value of 105 coupes. Even back in the 80s there was good supply of parts and body panels for those cars and as values improved more were saved and later fully restored. Interestingly back in the 80s as I recall the older Alfas like the 2600 were not that valuable...who had even seen one to covet it? Contrast that with Lancia where the values of Aurelias and Flaminias were I imagine always high at least for the desirable body shapes.
I still have a 2000 GTV as I bought another before I sold the first one but Iím more interested in Lancias now so I think Iíll sell the Alfa. Itís worth a bit anyway so would be nice to get the money in the bank.

I had/have always loved the Fulvia coupe but for me in those days with a smaller engine the Lancia fell short of the Alfa in power...of course I had never driven a Fulvia....
Another aspect to this is the contrast in values between the Berline and the coupes of Fulvias and Giulias.
It took a long time for 105/Giulia saloons to show any strength in value but they are clearly strong now and that applies right across Europe and North America and certainly in Italy. So a while back I looked at the comparable values of Fulvia Saloons and saw that they were much cheaper, very characterful, lots of space (cabin and boot) for what is quite a small car, loads of them for sale in Italy with what seems in some cases like ridiculously low mileage, and nobody cares any more about whether a car is LHD or RHD. So I now own two very nice condition Series 1 GTEs bought in Italy and I think they were a bargain. I never really bought as an investment....I just liked them but if they do increase in value then great.
And to finish off...I also am a fan of the Mercedes W124 E class. I have a convertible (which is also going to be sold soon) and an Estate...Iíve had two other Estates, a coupe and a Saloon...great cars. And to really finish off... someone mentioned the Audi Quattro...the car I should never have sold was a 1984 Audi 80 Quattro. The so called KK engined non-turbo saloon. Almost impossible to find now and what a stonkinghttp:// car to drive.

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2x Fulvia GTEs and various other non-Lancias.
simonpen
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« Reply #9 on: 30 April, 2021, 06:44:25 PM »

There is little rhyme or reason to many classic car prices. Why are Maserati so much cheaper than Astons and Ferraris? Why do E-Type prices fluctuate so much? Why are MK2 Jags more expensive than S-Types? I have had all of these makes in the past but I would put a Fulvia Coupe in my top three. I don't believe anyone cares about 0-60 times, who drives like that? A well driven Fulvia will give many a more expensive car a run for its money cross country. They are well made, pretty, and a lot of fun to drive. I am glad they are undervalued, otherwise I would be without a classic. Perhaps it is just taste, many people would rather buy their sofas from Ikea than Mr Hepplewhite.
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1969 Rallye 1.3S
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