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Author Topic: Heat related effects on the boxer engine.  (Read 2006 times)
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GerardJPC
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« on: 19 April, 2021, 09:55:06 AM »

My 2000 HF became distinctly cranky after an hour of crawling through a hot central London in heavy traffic on Saturday afternoon.  The engine did not overheat (the electric fan does its job well), but as I drove the car out of the centre towards my flat just south of the river, the revs were hunting, and the car backfired a couple of times.  At traffic lights close to home the car conked out, and did not wish to re start, so I pushed it into a parking bay, and waited twenty minutes (talking to a cool young Italian man who passed by and REALLY knew his Lancia history - this was the first 2000 Coupe he had ever seen in the metal).  I then re started the car and drove it the one minute home.  

Yesterday I ran the engine briefly and when warmed up it seemed a tad lumpy and might have been misfiring a bit.  Today in the early cool of the morning I drove the car from Kennington to Islington so that a mechanic whom I know can check its plugs, leads, dizzy, and so on.  An Italian tune up is not viable in 20 mph zones, and anyway I am not sure that the Italian tune up is effective on a fuel injected car in the way that it might be on an engine with a carb or carbs.  The car showed no issues on the way north.

Has anyone experienced heat-soak related ignition or other issues with the Flavia/2000 engine?   I add that my one has Sparkrite electronic-ignition.
« Last Edit: 19 April, 2021, 10:15:25 AM by GerardJPC » Logged

1962 Appia Berlina
1975 2000 HF Coupe
1979 Beta 1600 Coupe

1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe
1977 Princess 2200 HL
1981 Lotus Eclat S2 FOR SALE
1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza
1982 Moto Morini 350 S
1983 Land Rover SIII 88
2009 Jaguar XK
lancianut666
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Slow but rough


« Reply #1 on: 19 April, 2021, 10:11:04 AM »

Fuel vaporisation? Fuel Pump not doing it's stuff? Mine was a pig to get going again after a run and was always best left till it had cooled down.
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Fulvia Coupe S2 Flavia Coupe 1967 1.8 Kugelfischer Prisma 1.6 carb Y10 Fila Y10 Touring Dedra 1.8 Dedra 2.0 Turbo Appia S1
GerardJPC
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Posts: 266



« Reply #2 on: 19 April, 2021, 10:16:06 AM »

Yes, I must check the bills in the file to see how old the fuel pump is.
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1962 Appia Berlina
1975 2000 HF Coupe
1979 Beta 1600 Coupe

1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe
1977 Princess 2200 HL
1981 Lotus Eclat S2 FOR SALE
1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza
1982 Moto Morini 350 S
1983 Land Rover SIII 88
2009 Jaguar XK
lancialulu
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« Reply #3 on: 19 April, 2021, 11:05:45 AM »

Yours is a Bosch FI Gerard, so will be different from the earlier Kuglefisher systems (Jim). Even my Flavia Vignale Kuglefisher FI with its fuel return will vapour lock if switched off after a hot run (hot day etc) although it will continue to run albeit grumpily. It is an inherent problem of flat fours and V engines as the heat generated by the engine has no where to go. Modern fuels are more volatile compounding the issue. I have never had this problem with my (standard) Gamma, although some folk go to great lengths (pardon the pun) in wrapping the exhausts (which are underneath so not really contributing). You could try a 12v computer size fan in front of the injector pump......
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
GerardJPC
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« Reply #4 on: 19 April, 2021, 11:51:05 AM »

Thanks, that is very helpful!
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1962 Appia Berlina
1975 2000 HF Coupe
1979 Beta 1600 Coupe

1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe
1977 Princess 2200 HL
1981 Lotus Eclat S2 FOR SALE
1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza
1982 Moto Morini 350 S
1983 Land Rover SIII 88
2009 Jaguar XK
peteracs
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« Reply #5 on: 19 April, 2021, 04:09:01 PM »

Hi Gerard

It may be worth swapping out the ignition coil in case that is getting hot and starting to fail?

I guess you need to try to establish fuel or ignition which is the problem. If it persists maybe an air/fuel sensor in the exhaust may help to eliminate one or the other?

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
GerardJPC
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« Reply #6 on: 19 April, 2021, 05:13:51 PM »

Yes, all good suggestions, thanks.  The bloke who used to look after my old cars when I kept them in London back in the day is today doing a series of checks on the car's ignition and fuelling.    He has mostly given up professional spannering and moved on to other things but he kindly agreed to have a look at the car at short notice.  The bloke who currently looks after my cars in Oxfordshire has made the same observation about flat engines and V6s as already made above - his TVR has a Ford Essex V6 and that, he tells me, is an engine that can also be prone to being cantankerous on hot days.
     
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1962 Appia Berlina
1975 2000 HF Coupe
1979 Beta 1600 Coupe

1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe
1977 Princess 2200 HL
1981 Lotus Eclat S2 FOR SALE
1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza
1982 Moto Morini 350 S
1983 Land Rover SIII 88
2009 Jaguar XK
arguti
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« Reply #7 on: 20 April, 2021, 11:54:55 AM »

I see somebody beat me to it re exhaust manifold - get it ceramic coated ! was chatting to a friend in the trade this am about exactly this issue in alfa 105 coupe.
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Jay
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« Reply #8 on: 20 April, 2021, 12:30:15 PM »

To be honest most if not all old engines I have owned don’t like sitting in traffic and getting hot, which is a problem with living in south west London.  I find fuel vaporisation happens more when restating an engine when it’s hot rather than when driving it.
« Last Edit: 21 April, 2021, 12:59:07 PM by Jay » Logged

Julian Wood, Kingston, London
GerardJPC
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Posts: 266



« Reply #9 on: 20 April, 2021, 12:52:12 PM »

Yes, fair comment.  Nursing my old Jensen through London jams could be quite tense sometimes.  When driving a 60s or 70s car in bad traffic on a hot day, there is that question: "Shall I switch off?", because you are not always confident that the car will re start when the lights go green.
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1962 Appia Berlina
1975 2000 HF Coupe
1979 Beta 1600 Coupe

1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe
1977 Princess 2200 HL
1981 Lotus Eclat S2 FOR SALE
1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza
1982 Moto Morini 350 S
1983 Land Rover SIII 88
2009 Jaguar XK
GerardJPC
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Posts: 266



« Reply #10 on: 21 April, 2021, 12:02:35 PM »

Update:  the current view of the mechanic who has checked the car is that excessive heat along with the combination of modern fuel and 1970s tech was the cause of the problem the other day.  As he pithily said: "the problem you have is that it runs fine, until it doesn't".   Anyway, the car has had a set of new plugs and a shiny polish, and I'll get it looked at again next week when its regular mechanic will be doing some work underneath it anyway.
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1962 Appia Berlina
1975 2000 HF Coupe
1979 Beta 1600 Coupe

1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe
1977 Princess 2200 HL
1981 Lotus Eclat S2 FOR SALE
1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza
1982 Moto Morini 350 S
1983 Land Rover SIII 88
2009 Jaguar XK
DavidLaver
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« Reply #11 on: 21 April, 2021, 11:23:31 PM »


There's a book on the topic:

https://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11627.0
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David Laver, Lewisham.
GerardJPC
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Posts: 266



« Reply #12 on: 22 April, 2021, 04:18:23 AM »

Thanks!
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1962 Appia Berlina
1975 2000 HF Coupe
1979 Beta 1600 Coupe

1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe
1977 Princess 2200 HL
1981 Lotus Eclat S2 FOR SALE
1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza
1982 Moto Morini 350 S
1983 Land Rover SIII 88
2009 Jaguar XK
lancialulu
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Posts: 4395



« Reply #13 on: 22 April, 2021, 05:25:43 AM »


Good book. Makes the point that a bit more advance is beneficial in more ways than one, but not so much that the engine pinks higher up.... engine will run a bit cooler. Also use a good high octane fuel...
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
GerardJPC
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Posts: 266



« Reply #14 on: 22 April, 2021, 06:01:13 AM »

I am fortunate in having an Esso Station within five miles of home, so I can get the high octane stuff minus the ethanol.  Sadly Esso stations are not as plentiful as they once were.   I've had the advance and retard looked at carefully on my Beta and my Fiat 124, but need to get them carefully checked on the HF and Appia and even on my old Landy, which although made in the early 80s has a 1950s Rover saloon car engine, only lightly modernised by BL for the end of the line.
« Last Edit: 22 April, 2021, 06:03:11 AM by GerardJPC » Logged

1962 Appia Berlina
1975 2000 HF Coupe
1979 Beta 1600 Coupe

1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe
1977 Princess 2200 HL
1981 Lotus Eclat S2 FOR SALE
1982 Moto Guzzi V50 Monza
1982 Moto Morini 350 S
1983 Land Rover SIII 88
2009 Jaguar XK
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