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Author Topic: Y10 GTie (LHD)  (Read 12067 times)
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Duncan23
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« Reply #105 on: 27 January, 2021, 07:32:57 PM »

That video was interesting just using a soldering iron.
The tool is a bit of a mixed bag.  It didn't have the knife in the packet, the instructions were garbage, and the plug was one of those 2 pin continental ones. Sad

On the other hand, it works really well. Smiley You pull the trigger, wait for the little pin thing to glow, press it into the plastic and release the trigger. A couple of seconds later, you can just pull the gun thing off and put a new pin into it. This is what the repair looks like (I trimmed the sticking out bits afterwards).

The repaired item seems pretty sturdy, so I'm happy that when I get a chance on the weekend I can still loads of them into the dash and it will hold it all together pretty well. I've still not ordered the fibreglass to repair the bits where there are huge gaps and missing bits of plastic, but hopefully I can get it organised soon!




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Duncan23
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« Reply #106 on: 28 January, 2021, 08:01:35 PM »

I had a go at repairing the actual dash this evening. As with most of my posts, there's good and bad. I was able to repair quite a few cracks, and they are pretty solid now.
However, access to some of the cracked areas from behind is really tricky, and I managed to melt all the way through one part of the dash top (it's really thin here).
I'll try and clean this up a bit and see if I can make the original finish more presentable, but I think it might be a bit of a lost cause.  This dash is never going to be great given the giant hole someone hacked in it when they installed the aircon, so I might give up on that as a bad idea and accept the idea of plastic welding from the front, before smoothing everything out and flocking it. I'll see how well I can do working from the back first though. I also need to work out how to solve the problems with the central vent mounting points.


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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #107 on: 29 January, 2021, 12:32:07 AM »

For the dash top I'm not sure you need to weld it from the top. That's one place you can put a reinforcing bar all the way across inside from behind and fill the whole space with resin or expanding foam. The fine crack remaining on top will be covered by your flocking without risking messing it all up by welding something that is already critically thin. Even without flocking I think it could be lightly filled, textured and spray painted black without looking particularly bad.
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Duncan23
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« Reply #108 on: 29 January, 2021, 09:27:58 AM »

I don't want to use foam, because either it doesn't expand enough to fill the space, or it expands too much and goes everywhere! I agree about bonding in a patch from behind, though there are ribs that would need to be removed first. I'll definitely try that before "welding" from the face of the dash. I may even try to make a (removable) panel that goes where the glovebox would have been, to add structure and avoid having a gaping hole there.
If you were trying to restore the texture to bits that are filled before painting, how would you do it? I've seen a few attempts on YouTube and they all end up looking rubbish (and so do dashes without any texture at all). Or would you just use a paint that has a finish built into it (like the hammered ones)? Inability to answer these questions are why I ended up at flocking.
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fay66
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« Reply #109 on: 29 January, 2021, 10:41:02 AM »

I don't want to use foam, because either it doesn't expand enough to fill the space, or it expands too much and goes everywhere! I agree about bonding in a patch from behind, though there are ribs that would need to be removed first. I'll definitely try that before "welding" from the face of the dash. I may even try to make a (removable) panel that goes where the glovebox would have been, to add structure and avoid having a gaping hole there.
If you were trying to restore the texture to bits that are filled before painting, how would you do it? I've seen a few attempts on YouTube and they all end up looking rubbish (and so do dashes without any texture at all). Or would you just use a paint that has a finish built into it (like the hammered ones)? Inability to answer these questions are why I ended up at flocking.
I used expanding foam a number of years ago to remake some of the crash padding on my fulvia, I didn't find it a problem as any excess foam was easily cut back with a sharp knife.
Can't remember who made it, or if it is even still about, but at one time you could get a kit for repairing dash tops, it was some sort of filler and came with various  pieces of material that were grained to look like that you were repairing, I think you put in the filler, then placed the grained material over the top and iron was applied, that dried the pattern of the grain into the repair.
Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #110 on: 29 January, 2021, 12:59:31 PM »

Sometimes you have to accept that a repair isn't going to look perfect but so long as it doesn't catch the eye nobody really notices. I have a crack right across my dash top towards the outer end of the instrument cluster but I probably notice it more than anyone else would.

Flocking is one of those things that sounds magical but may be anything but easy to do effectively, especially on a large panel. I tried following the videos about trimming bits off carpets to repair the worn edge of a seat. It looked so easy, which it probably is if you have got the right technique and years of practice. My efforts on a tiny area were only a marginal improvement at best and not at all what I had hoped for.

Textured paint doesn't sound like a good idea, certainly not hammerite. Crackle finish paint requires the part to be heated in an oven which is a non starter with a large plastic facia panel. For texturing filler maybe you could use a silicone rubber to take a mould off an undamaged part of the dash then use that to texture the filler. Bumper repair products may be the right sort of thing to look at for fillers and a coat of satin black plastic paint over the whole facia panel should blend everything together.
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Duncan23
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« Reply #111 on: 01 February, 2021, 10:04:41 AM »

I will take those idea on board and do some more research, but I think the final finish is a bridge a little way off. Smiley And the more work I do on this dash, the more I realise just how utterly knackered it is.  Still, I bought this car to give me something to tinker with, and this definitely counts as tinkering!  Wink

I started on the steel reinforcing bits this weekend. Firstly I labelled everything up so I knew what went where. Then I started on the CAD (cardboard version), and I basically made templates for everything before I went anywhere near the steel. After I'd cut out and shaped a few of the steel templates (1.2mm zintec - hopefully will help avoid rusting), I realised that there was a rather large piece missing in the middle.

You can see in this picture, that the heater controls bolt up to some plastic in the middle of the dash. The blue ones are all there (though they need reinforcing - I think it should join the top but that has broken), but the green bit is supposed to have something similar to bolt to in the gap where the red shape is.

So I'm going to try to make a steel replacement (I probably have some random pieces of broken plastic somewhere, but this plastic is crap and steel is bound to be more sturdy). The initial template looks like this, but I realised I should make it more of an "n" shape where the holes go, so I'll have to add an extra fold and some extra tabs on the end. This is going to be the most complex repair shape I have ever made, and I can't build it in pieces and then weld together in situ because that would probably melt the plastic (and or damage the epoxy holding it all in). I guess I could bond the metal together, but I'd rather make the metal structure one piece.

So more experiments in metal shaping to come over the next week or so.


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DavidLaver
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« Reply #112 on: 01 February, 2021, 09:26:42 PM »


Wow!!!   That's quite a production.
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David Laver, Lewisham.
Duncan23
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« Reply #113 on: 08 February, 2021, 09:37:30 AM »

3 of them are basically finished now (I'd like to drop a tiny weld onto #5 and smooth out the corners).

It doesn't look much different to last time, but the holes are drilled, the shape of #5 got a load of finessing, and I had a bunch of tidying to do before I could get at the workbench (and the drill press). I'm slightly concerned about #3 in that the plastic it's going to be bonded to has "relaxed" and is a bit saggy - will straightening it out and bonding in steel sort that out, or just introduce new cracks further along? Obviously getting rid of the sharp corners should reduce stress risers (I can do that now I'd rediscovered my bench grinder), and I'm thinking I'll run the epoxy out past the steel so that it can provide some reinforcement/encouragement for the plastic.

I've not tried to do any bonding yet because it's freezing in the garage and I don't think epoxy likes the cold all that much.  Also, I only have half a (pair of) tube left and I'm not sure how much I'm going to use just yet - I've ordered some more so I definitely have enough. I might try bonding in as many pieces as I have when it's a bit warmer - I don't think I'm going to finish the bit that joins #2 and #6 and supports the heater controls for a little while as it's quite a complicated shape. It also means I can make sure the epoxy works in a slightly less conspicuous place.


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frankxhv773t
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« Reply #114 on: 08 February, 2021, 10:27:02 AM »

Your garage sounds like mine. Any switch to a significantly different task requires a day of tetrus style reorganisation.

To spread the load off the end of the metal reinforcements why not lay some fibreglass matting over the join. Another thought is that if you drill a mesh of holes in the steel where the bonding laps over it the resin will get a more thorough grip.

Are you familiar with drilling a round hole at the end of a crack to disperse the stresses and stop the crack extending further?
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Duncan23
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« Reply #115 on: 08 February, 2021, 10:46:36 AM »

These are all going to be bonded in flat up against a plastic part. But I like the idea of drilling some small holes to allow the resin through like a sort of a plug weld. I'm not convinced that drilling holes to stop crack propagation is applicable on the dash as it's so thin I reckon the crack will just restart the other side of the hole.
I need to get some fibreglass - I suspect that I'm going to end up with a dashboard that is a sort of spaceframe with plastic cladding which could work fine without any plastic at all!  Smiley

And the working area at the front of the car with the workbench is now all clear, so I won't have to do any stuff moving (until I try to get the car out of the garage, obviously Smiley ). Tetris is a good analogy - I'm glad the car is so small!
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SanRemo78
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« Reply #116 on: 08 February, 2021, 01:34:38 PM »

Instead of fibreglass have you considered a body adhesive like Sikaflex? It's probably a little easier to work with and might give you a stronger and slightly flexible bond? Whichever route you choose the bond will be stronger if the surfaces are scored and/or perforated.
Guy
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Duncan23
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« Reply #117 on: 15 February, 2021, 11:21:12 AM »

Fibreglass would be there as a reinforcement as well as an adhesive. I was wondering about Sikaflex or Tiger Seal instead of using epoxy, but I'm not convinced they will give as good a bond, and flexibility isn't the aim (the more the dash flexes, the more likely it is to crack).

I spent a few hours on this on both Saturday and Sunday, and I'm basically one step back! The good news is that the new quilted overalls I ordered mean that spending time in the garage is much more pleasant - now I need to make better use of that time!
I started off trying to work out exactly how to make the bracket that joins the top and bottom of the dash and holds the heater vent, and I cut some steel and bent some steel, and found some box that would fit and was generally making some decent progress. I realised I should probably trial fit #5 with the heating vents present, and when I did that, I discovered that it simply wasn't going to work - the bit at the top that was supposed to hold the screw for the cover section clashes with the heater vents. Sad

So I started off making a much simpler piece that would just hold the plastic in the right place and give me a nice sturdy location for everything, so I could make the bit on the other side. I made a simple straight piece with the right sort of bend in the right place, and then I taped that in place and refitted the heater section. And I realised that there was a bit of plastic missing that held all the buttons in the top, and if I put my bracket in the right place, at least I could deal with that. So I cut and drilled and filed and sanded and got another small piece, so there is an L shape, and piece that will sit on top, reinforce it and also bolt up the buttons. (I should have taken a picture at this point, but I was trying to get stuff done.) All that's needed now is to weld them together and trial fit again.
I found my welding helmet, turned on the welder, checked the settings, and discovered the gas bottle was on already. Which was strange, because I try to leave it closed so that there are no leaks, and it's not been used in ages. The regulator seemed to be showing flow (again, strange?) so I tested out the welder, and no gas noise. The regulator didn't change if I turn the dial on it or on the gas bottle, and all the pipes appear to be free from kinks (I can't see behind the welder, but it's not up against the wall). In irritation, I attempted a test weld on something else, but it was horrible and black and splattery and broke far too easily, so I gave up. I think I need to order some new gas.
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eog
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« Reply #118 on: 16 February, 2021, 09:55:37 AM »

May be worth looking at this carbon fiber bonded filler. I have used it on a lotus and after 4 years no stress cracks

https://www.u-pol.com/uk/en-uk/product/upol/fillers/special-surface-repairs/smc-carbon-fibre-reinforced-filler#.YCuVSjJxeUk

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Duncan23
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« Reply #119 on: 22 February, 2021, 01:15:31 PM »

That stuff looks interesting, though the U-Pol version is super expensive. Toolstation own brand isn't much more than regular filler, though I wonder if that means it's also not very good.

I stuck some of the metal reinforcements in over the weekend. It made the dash so much more rigid (there were times I thought it might actually snap in half when I was getting it out), so hopefully it won't rattle itself apart so much when it's actually in the car! I used JB Weld, and it seems to have done a good job bonding the plastic to itself and also metal to plastic. It was realtively this, so it filed slight gaps where the metal pieces weren't perfectly shaped, though it did drip a little bit on one of them. I couldn't do the complex metal bits because I've run out of welding gas - I need to organise getting some more.
I'm not going to flock the dash (yet) because the MOT runs out in a month or so and I don't want to spend even more time on the dash (I need to check the fuel filler area still). Hopefully it will look smart enough and the plastic repair pieces won't be too obvious.  At least I know how to get it out again should I need to do it a second time to make it look better.
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