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Author Topic: Sump plug removal  (Read 2643 times)
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andyps
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« on: 02 June, 2020, 09:30:25 PM »

As my Fulvia has been off the road for around 30 years it definitely needs an oil change before I get it running again (I did see it running 4 years ago when buying it) so tonight I thought I'd take the plug out and let everything drain for a while. However, I can't see a safe way to remove the plug without breaking it - the plug appears to be plastic and has a 14mm hex inside it. I found a suitable size snug fitting bolt to go in it but the plug has split so it just turned inside it.

Question is - is there a recommended way to remove the plug other than breaking it? And where do I get a new plug from?
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Jai Sharma
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« Reply #1 on: 02 June, 2020, 09:49:00 PM »

I'm not sure what the solution is but the original was brass, and it is the same on the gearbox.
It ought to be quite easy to get a replacement, but the removal of this is something others might have thoughts on.

You can remove the entire sump quite easily once you take the anti-roll bar off, there are lots of Allen bolts joining it to the crankcase.
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andyps
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« Reply #2 on: 02 June, 2020, 09:55:20 PM »

Thanks Jai, I've got another sump somewhere so I'll have a look at what is in that and maybe be able to get the plug out if it if there is one. I did wonder if the plastic was original.
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nistri
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« Reply #3 on: 03 June, 2020, 05:59:35 AM »

Removal of the sump is easy on S2/3 cars but not simple on S1 cars with the transverse section of the subframe in the way, Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

Ardea S2
Appia S2
Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
Fulvia Coupe 1.3 S
lancialulu
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« Reply #4 on: 03 June, 2020, 06:45:07 AM »

- the plug appears to be plastic and has a 14mm hex inside it. I found a suitable size snug fitting bolt to go in it but the plug has split so it just turned inside it.

Question is - is there a recommended way to remove the plug other than breaking it? And where do I get a new plug from?

I have never seen a plastic plug. A photo would be interesting to see. In a Fulvia tool kit is a 14mm hex male / 19mm female bar for undoing sump plugs and wheel nuts.

I believe Omicron sells a magnetic sump/gearbox plug with a male 19mm hex and other Fulvia specialists such as  pieces fulvia sell copies of the original not too expensive  https://www.pieces-fulvia.com/drain-plug-for-gearbox-or-engine-lancia-fulvia-all-models.htm
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
davidwheeler
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« Reply #5 on: 03 June, 2020, 08:22:55 AM »

Many garages these days just put a pipe down the dipstick hole and suck out the oil so no need to remove the plug. 
 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Engine-Oil-Pump-12V-Electric-Auto-Oil-Fluid-Sump-Extractor-Scavenge-Exchange/333574684542?hash=item4daa99bf7e:g:npcAAOSwuSxelW5X
  will do the job. 
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
andyps
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« Reply #6 on: 03 June, 2020, 01:07:08 PM »

- the plug appears to be plastic and has a 14mm hex inside it. I found a suitable size snug fitting bolt to go in it but the plug has split so it just turned inside it.

Question is - is there a recommended way to remove the plug other than breaking it? And where do I get a new plug from?

I have never seen a plastic plug. A photo would be interesting to see. In a Fulvia tool kit is a 14mm hex male / 19mm female bar for undoing sump plugs and wheel nuts.

I believe Omicron sells a magnetic sump/gearbox plug with a male 19mm hex and other Fulvia specialists such as  pieces fulvia sell copies of the original not too expensive  https://www.pieces-fulvia.com/drain-plug-for-gearbox-or-engine-lancia-fulvia-all-models.htm

Thanks - I'll take a photo this evening and post it. It does look a lot like the original.

I'll dig out the spare sump I have and see what is in it before ordering but will get one or the other of the ones you suggest if needed - original style would be nice but Omicron no doubt quicker at the moment especially.
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andyps
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« Reply #7 on: 03 June, 2020, 01:09:12 PM »

Many garages these days just put a pipe down the dipstick hole and suck out the oil so no need to remove the plug. 
 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Engine-Oil-Pump-12V-Electric-Auto-Oil-Fluid-Sump-Extractor-Scavenge-Exchange/333574684542?hash=item4daa99bf7e:g:npcAAOSwuSxelW5X
  will do the job. 

I have got a pump but as the oil is so old I'd like to ensure I get all of it out - my feeling with the pump is that it almost always leaves some oil as it isn't possible to be sure it has got to the very lowest part of the sump. Helpful every other change on my wife's Freelander though as it saves removing the engine undertray which takes around an hour in itself!
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chriswgawne
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« Reply #8 on: 03 June, 2020, 02:48:50 PM »

Maybe its me but I like seeing what if anything has attached itself to the magnetic sump plugs since the last oil change!
And of course as has already been said removing the plug allows one to drain the oil properly.
Chris
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Chris Gawne
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andyps
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« Reply #9 on: 04 June, 2020, 12:31:44 PM »

I had another look last night and the plug isn't plastic, I'm pretty sure it is brass. I was thrown off by the colour and also the softness and the way it cracked/split - I was using an LED light under the car so couldn't see easily. Picture below.

Also dug out the spare sump I have which has the same plug type but one difference which is very obvious, the sump on the engine in the car has the plug at the rear as can be seen in the photo, on the other sump it is in the middle. From what I was told the spare sump is the original from the car (an S2 Sport) and the engine in the car is a replacement - is that correct and what car age/model might the sump in the car be from?

« Last Edit: 04 June, 2020, 12:33:41 PM by andyps » Logged
lancialulu
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« Reply #10 on: 04 June, 2020, 02:23:09 PM »

Ta for the photo. Yes that is a standard plug slightly mullered!

Re position I always thought that the rear was an early sump (early car) but the sump on my 1600HF is at the back while my 1967 1.3 is in the middle, and my spare 1600 engine is also in the middle. I checked with my S1 and S2 parts book and the drawing only shows the middle variety.

Maybe someone else has a clearer picture of this....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
Neil
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« Reply #11 on: 04 June, 2020, 03:34:53 PM »

My 1970 parts book and S2 and Fulvia 3 operations booklet both show a middle located sump plug, however the three S2 1.3 sumps at home are all rear located plugs.
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Neil   
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1973 Fulvia S2 1.3
davidwheeler
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« Reply #12 on: 04 June, 2020, 03:48:49 PM »

My 1972 SII sport 1600 is in the middle.
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David Wheeler.  Lambdas, Aprilia, Fulvia Sport.(formerly Appia and Thema as well).
nistri
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« Reply #13 on: 04 June, 2020, 05:32:42 PM »

Late S3 coupes were factory-fitted with the engine sump of the Fiat 127: this allowed more (not much more) oil in the engine (i.e. a bit more than 4 liters). This change coincided with decresed intervals for oil and filter replacement. Interestingly, the very last coupes (1976) had even lost their 818.303 marking on the bellhousing. Fiat was then determined to erase all Lancia heritage. Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

Ardea S2
Appia S2
Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
Fulvia Coupe 1.3 S
lancialulu
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« Reply #14 on: 04 June, 2020, 08:05:56 PM »

Andy

Picking up on Andrea's point of engine type/engine number, have you ascertained what engine type you have (potentially) by reading the stamping on the flywheel rear housing near to the starter motor?

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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
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