Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Appia => Topic started by: sd39 on 25 August, 2017, 06:52:49 PM



Title: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 25 August, 2017, 06:52:49 PM
I started in earnest today on what is going to be a long slow haul. You'll remember that I have recently brought our Appia S3 Sedan back from Tucson, AZ. The first tasks are to get the car going and see if it can get an MOT: and there are a number of fuel issues and the gear linkage needs adjusting.

I will definitely need advice along the way, and I hope that fellow Appia owners will not mind answering what will I am sure be a few daft questions. I will use this post to create a blog a bit like Simon and Juliet's Furgoncino tale, if that is ok.

So the fuel line came off and was cleaned. It had some nasty black stuff in it, but flushed through with carb cleaner and a cycle pump it seems clean now. I took the tank off and as you can see it has a lot of really nasty stuff in it. Which I assume is rust from internal condensation. There seems to be a lot and I suspect that the tank may not be serviceable. I'll see what its like after cleaning it with nuts, bolts and screws, but it might have gone too far. Once I have cleaned it I will see if there are any leaks. Then I'll likely use tank sealant (http://www.frost.co.uk/por15-car-bike-motorcyle-fuel-tank-repair-sealer.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwlf_MBRDUARIsAD8Gj8BcwyL7ihBJsDslLtzwZdJ9sQJJbczGBtntL5OHbdUjPdqE9_0b258aAlUFEALw_wcB). The internal pipe seems to have crud in it too but, this will probably clean up ok with a narrow pipe cleaner and carb cleaner fluid.

The float mechanism was seized but I managed to free this up. One of the linkage bar has tiny little washers which seem to act as locks to stop the bar from coming off. But I can't really see how they stay on. Anyone have any ideas?

One thing I will definitely need is a replacement drain plug filter, but I suppose I could braze some brass mesh on this. Again, if anyone has any suggestions they would be welcome.


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: frankxhv773t on 25 August, 2017, 06:56:26 PM
Of course we don't mind a blog. I think you would be in trouble if you didn't!


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: Parisien on 25 August, 2017, 08:27:15 PM
Great to see two grown men enjoying themselves!

Yes, this forum is a Lancia bloggers paradise, virtually all of it has been done before and you'll be in good company, keep getting those hands dirty!

P


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 25 August, 2017, 08:52:18 PM
By the way, that me, Simon on the left, and my Brother Ed on the right


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: simonandjuliet on 25 August, 2017, 09:13:47 PM
Good luck and we look forward to following your progress - I had the same problem with my tank filter. I chopped up a stainless steel sieve to make a fine-mesh filter and held it on with copper wire, it has worked so far, but I do have a modern filter fitted in the flexible line as well ( after the copper pipe but before the pump, just under the engine)

New , inexpensive pumps are available, I would consider one of these as well ......

I will look at a float to see what you mean, but I think the end of the rod has been crimped



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 26 August, 2017, 07:51:09 AM
Ok, thanks for the tips. crimping makes sense. I can see that thats what was done. Will do same.


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 26 August, 2017, 11:40:21 AM
Crimping worked.

Guy who does welding for me has made what seems a really good suggestion for cleaning the tank. Hire a cement mixer and strap the tank to it with sand and water. He explained that the mixer allows for changes of angles that really get the job done.

I'll let you know!


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: Jaydub on 26 August, 2017, 01:03:54 PM
Sand in a fuel tank!! Sounds like trouble.


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 26 August, 2017, 01:23:42 PM
that was my initial reaction, but he swears by it. I would go for screws, nuts and bolts by preference


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 26 August, 2017, 03:38:35 PM
Thanks Jim, Carb castings arrived today. Very smart they are too.

BTW, is there a way of searching the Appia forum? This will likely save a lot of routine questions



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: simonandjuliet on 26 August, 2017, 03:51:37 PM
I did a bloggy-thing for my 3rd series rebuild ("Everyday Appia") as well, I have tried using the forum search for different aspects of the rebuild but it doesn't work well in my hands so maybe someone else can explain how to make it work better - eg I searched "Appia carb" and your last 2 posts came up but my posts didn't



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: chriswgawne on 26 August, 2017, 04:40:08 PM
Ref Fuel Tank inner paint I remain to be convinced if it is thick. There is the potential for future problems I feel. Best to give it a good but not too aggressive clean and then inspect closely for leaks before using any inner coating.
I think the tank filters are important and can be fabricated if they need repairing as Simon says.
Chris


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: LANCIA on 26 August, 2017, 07:44:47 PM
Ciao ti suggerisco trattamento con TANKERITE ,  vedi SITI WEB.  Io lho fatto su fiat    TOPOLINO:


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: DavidLaver on 26 August, 2017, 11:08:58 PM
Simon - worth telling the story of how it came to be in Tuscon, and why you brought it back again?


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 27 August, 2017, 09:04:27 AM
Thanks for the suggestions vis the tank (Google translate was useful, cheers Andrea). I will take it slowly and carefully that's for sure, and given the amount of crud that came out of the tank, it could well be stuffed. I will clean off the under seal first to check if it has corroded through.

I will read the 'Everyday Appia' and other blogs. Great to know that there is this store of knowledge and expertise.

Hi Dave. Was going to drop you an email anyway. The car was on the road in 1998 and I used it as my wedding car when I lived in Plymouth. I got a new job in Wollongong Australia, and my brother Ed had already emigrated to Tucson in 1998. My parents looked after the car for a short while and Ed decided to get it over to the US. He had grand plans for doing the car up, but apart from changing the gearbox (usual 1st gear issue, and hence the need for gear linkage adjustment) and dismantling the faulty carb other things took priority. We did get the car going in 2006 and drove down to get the exhaust welded, whilst I was on holiday there. So, I returned to the UK in 2004 and brought back the 1966 S1 Fulvia that I have hill climbed over many years now (registered AB 003 in NSW and AVG209D in the UK).

Ed returned to the UK this year, and we were faced with a dilemma. Could we really leave the 'Egg' behind. Financially it doesn't make any sense, but the argument that we could get another one in Italy didn't stack up: I probably wouldn't have bought another Appia. Even Linda my wife said we should get it over! So I paid to get it shipped over.

I have wanted a project car for some time, and now I have one! I am a bit daunted at the moment, and busy! I only have a single garage which keeps the Fulvia warm, but I am planning a large double garage in due course. It may take a while, but it will be worth it.

A question: In the parts diagram of the body the wings of the S2 depicted seem to bolt on. Is this the case? Is the S3 the same?

I am very encouraged by your support


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: Jaydub on 27 August, 2017, 09:34:13 AM
Simon, just another thought re fuel tank. I came across this firm recently and they look very good. Take a look at their website. Hartlepool Radiator Company, "ReNu fuel tanks.
It looks a very good process and will certainly get rid of any crud/ rust etc.


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 02 September, 2017, 12:41:55 PM
Cheers, will have a look!


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 02 September, 2017, 12:44:23 PM
Managed to use some brass mesh and fashion a filter. Its not pretty but does the job. Use the old remaining ring that came off the plug to tidy the top of the filter off


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 02 September, 2017, 04:30:04 PM
Given that I also need my Fulvia's radiator repaired it looks like a lot of sense to send them both up to hartlepool. Cheers


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: simonandjuliet on 02 September, 2017, 05:49:13 PM
Take them and pop in and see Jim at the Appia Consortium !


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: lancianut666 on 04 September, 2017, 08:30:56 AM
Eh up! heard my name mentioned
by all means pop up to the 'pool and see the Appia Consortium Emporium
We have some tanks that have been refurbed if yours is beyond repair
and new fuel pumps

Clarkey


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 24 September, 2017, 05:54:31 PM
This is too far gone I guess. Does anyone have a different opinion?


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 24 September, 2017, 05:56:03 PM
Whoops that was a Fulvia starter motor. This is the Appia tank!


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: lancianut666 on 24 September, 2017, 07:01:16 PM
probably repairable by an expert as I mentioned before we have 2 reconditioned tanks at Hartlepool
Clarkey


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: simonandjuliet on 24 September, 2017, 07:01:57 PM
There are a couple of tanks for sale on eBay Italy (inc a new one ) but first check with Jim if there is one up in Hartlepool


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 25 September, 2017, 09:51:13 PM
OK, I'll ring Jim next week. Off to Sweden tmw


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 29 October, 2017, 05:17:42 PM
New petrol tank is on the way down south - thanks Jim and brother Ed is sorting carb parts and rebuilding from the castings that Jim sent.

Won't be too long before we can see if it starts


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the refresh continues slowly
Post by: sd39 on 31 March, 2020, 06:57:56 PM
Gosh, three years! Oh well. A lot has been happening and the Fulvia has taken up the time.

I have moved (near Worcester now), and now have a double garage.

Anyway, various things have happened to the Appia. It goes. But there is much to do. First up is the brake systems, starting with the handbrake (sorted) and rear pistons etc. Below is a photo of what I hope is the correct positioning of the scissor spring on the handbrake actuator rod. This was very difficult to see when it was all together and I am not sure exactly where it goes. Anyone know?

I hope to do more reports from time to time, esp. obviously if I need some advice
Cheers
Simon
 


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 31 March, 2020, 07:04:16 PM
Does anyone know how to put the new responses/replies at the start rather than the end?


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: simonandjuliet on 31 March, 2020, 07:25:38 PM
Re the spring, if I recall, it sits above the bearing because its main job is to hold the rod in place when putting it all together, and it doesn't keep dropping on the floor !



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 01 April, 2020, 07:56:15 AM
Hi

Thats really useful thanks

Hope all is well with you


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: chriswgawne on 01 April, 2020, 08:06:07 AM
Aurelias have a similar thing to hold the brake rod but its made from spring steel sheet. Its under no tension or pressure if fitted correctly and so should last for ever .....but I have seen quite a few broken ones on disassembly of rear brakes.. I wonder exactly how they can be fitted incorrectly?
Chris 


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 03 April, 2020, 02:04:05 PM
Not sure about that, but my original idea where they should go wasn't right. Rears now in, bled and sorted. Car turned round and fronts next.


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 04 April, 2020, 11:10:53 AM
I was going to start sorting the front brakes out today, but the universal pullers I have would require my making something to fit over the wheel studs, and this would take a while. So does anyone have a picture of the right puller, or can point me in the right direction to buy something (eg https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/8026514421?iid=152740638505&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=152740638505&targetid=876869733809&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1007256&poi=&campaignid=9446165506&mkgroupid=93977252377&rlsatarget=pla-876869733809&abcId=1140486&merchantid=7283384&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiMeB-8vO6AIVTdTeCh1R2A6IEAQYAiABEgISe_D_BwE) . Or, should I simply hire from the club's tools supply?

I did search the forum for pictures/description, but there was nothing definitive

Any advice would be appreciated


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: simonandjuliet on 04 April, 2020, 12:44:35 PM
Here are a couple of pullers - the first I bought on eBay a while ago and has Lancia codes - it fits Appia and Aprilia (maybe others) and the lower one is a homemade version

The top one I use all the time, it works a treat !


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 04 April, 2020, 04:42:45 PM
thats useful. I'll have look at what old brake discs and chod I have knocking around


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 05 April, 2020, 07:57:41 AM
Yesterday I spent a satisfying day sorting out the front steering linkage, and worked out why there was a knocking noise on fullish lock. In towing the car the front linkage bar had obviously got bent out of shape, and there was evidence of some score marks from where it was hitting a castle nut. So with two blocks of wood and my heavy boot I got it straightened out. Problem solved. I replaced the silent bush on the short linkage arm. I am a few dust O rings away from that job being sorted. Very satisfying to clean all the linkages/bushes.

Then the next job - following the front brakes - will be to replace the gear linkage bushes, which looks like I will need to shrink my hands somewhat.

I have to remind myself all the time that this isn't a restoration, but simply getting the car to a useable and safe state. Ed (my brother and co-owner) and I still think that overall the body is beyond economic repair (it needs four new wings for a start, and who knows what lurks underneath!). Hence, best to tidy it up as best we can, improve the mechanics and then hopefully at some point get hold of a car/body shell that maybe spent all its life in the Sahara! Or until I win big on the premium bonds!


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: nistri on 05 April, 2020, 08:36:05 AM
This is the puller I use for removing the Appia brake drums. At the front it might need adding a 10 mm socket to the tip which is a bit too large and might push on the bearing rather than the axle, Andrea


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the refresh
Post by: sd39 on 07 April, 2020, 08:27:12 AM
Thanks Andrea. Useful. I have bought something cheap which I hope will sort. I didnt have a brake disc that I could cannibalise.

The steering linkages are almost sorted bar a locking tab and dust O rings. I now understand the eccentric bolt on one side. This presumably is to adjust toe-in etc. Now I have to work out and understand how to measure and set this! The picture below shows the side where two bars attach and there seems to be a gap between them. Have I got this right I wonder? I forgot to take a photo beforehand.

The other photo is of the gear linkage rubbers replacement, which I am halfway through. I removed the manifold and dynamo which was necessary. I look forward to adjusting it as getting reverse has always been tricky.

The other photo is the throttle linkage from the peddle to the lever that travels to the other side of the car and actuates the rod working the carb. I wonder if this simple cable is correct; it seems very un-Lancia like? The parts diagram I have only shows the right hand drive cars which don't have the lever stretching over the sump. Can anyone illuminate whether something is missing?


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: lancianut666 on 07 April, 2020, 11:55:52 AM
Looks about right all the clever stuff is on the other side going up to the carb...optical illusion but is it touching the exhaust?
Clarkey


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 07 April, 2020, 03:24:51 PM
I should have mentioned that the exhaust is detached and not in correct position, because I have the manifold off



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 09 April, 2020, 06:17:22 PM
Another day, another few steps forward

I started the water pump refresh today. I thought it would be good to get a fresh seal on it and though the bearing needed replacing. It turned out that its the dynamo that needs sorting, which I'll send off. I have the additional instructions in the manual for water pump strip, and I managed to get the impeller pin out with no issues, but the impeller doesnít seem to want to come off and I canít work out a safe way of getting it off. Given that it doesn't leak and the bearing is fine, I think I'll just clean and re-gasket it and put it back on.

I took the exhaust down pipe off properly, and have arranged to get a new one made in stainless. As you can see from the picture below, the existing one looks like it has been found in a Saxon hoard of weapons and other artefacts.

I also cleaned the front of the engine. It came up very well, and very easily.

Btw rocker covers: crackle finish or au naturel? I have seen both on these pages, but would prefer as original.


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 09 April, 2020, 08:18:03 PM
Turns out that I do need to replace the seal, since my brother assures me that the water pump has weeped water for a long while. So, if anyone has any suggestion with regards to safely removing it I would be grateful


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: lancianut666 on 10 April, 2020, 03:27:12 PM
The word is you can destroy the pump dismantling it...try soaking it in Coca Cola or vinegar to dissolve the products of corrosion...or wack it with a big hammer!
The consortium has brand new exhaust downpipes available now if you need one.
Clarkey


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 11 April, 2020, 06:57:09 AM
OK, I have been warned

I'll have one of those downpipes then!


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 13 April, 2020, 10:28:50 AM
So two days of coke, and a patented plastic lever has seen the impeller removed. Just about to drive out the shaft and bearing from the rear, as per the instructions



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 13 April, 2020, 12:13:43 PM
Phew! That was a bit scary.

Its all come apart, but the amount of hammering effort (with leather hammer) to get shaft and bearings out was, well, scary.

Bearings seem ok, but if they are not hugely expensive it'll have to be worth replacing



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 13 April, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
I have taken photos of all the pieces in situ to guide replacement

But these instructions were great



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: DavidLaver on 13 April, 2020, 08:55:04 PM

Congratulations!!!



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 14 April, 2020, 07:13:08 AM
Hi Dave

Hope all is well

I have identified something interesting. One of the brass washers has a foreign extra curved (for the bearings) washer. According to the drawing it should not be there. Issue is should I remove it, or put it back? Ummm



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 14 April, 2020, 04:07:32 PM
Is it possible that this is a cover that was part of the bearing?


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: simonandjuliet on 14 April, 2020, 04:47:06 PM
Hi, if you don't get an answer, I can take one apart tomorrow and have a look


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 15 April, 2020, 02:49:47 PM
I suppose I'll know once I get new bearings. My Brother thinks its part of the bearing, but the other bearing doesnt have it. Interesting.


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 16 April, 2020, 05:34:10 PM
Some more progress.

£10 hub puller meets angle grinder = hubs off, yippie! I just had to open the slots at the end.

I hope its not a dreadful sin, but I have bling-ed up the exhaust manifold

Any views on the length of our wiper arms. 10 inch blades are too big and hit the top. 9inch blades are now fitted, but they look too high to me, so this means the arms are too long, no? They are 270mm total length. (I have been polishing the windscreen because of some scoring the degraded blades made)





Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: simonandjuliet on 16 April, 2020, 07:40:01 PM
Subtle bling is good ....

Was the car last on the road in 2001 ?


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 17 April, 2020, 06:54:50 AM
Yes, at that point I was in living Australia buying my Fulvia, and the car was on its way to Tucson, AZ for what turned out to be a long rust free rest at my Brother's. Crazy really, but when my Brother returned 2018 we had to make a decision. We should have sold it there (the body is not and has never really been economically restorable) but sentiment is a strange thing. The 'Egg', as it is known in the family, has been with us since 1987, was my wedding car, the car and I spent a year in Berlin and Nuremberg, and I couldn't face giving it up, so I shipped it back. The plan is to get it on the road, and improve the mechanics, and then think about getting a better body at some point.


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: chriswgawne on 17 April, 2020, 07:16:09 PM
Here is a photo of the Aurelia rear brake rod retainer referred plate to a week or two ago. How on earth these get broken I do not know.
Chris


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: lancianut666 on 17 April, 2020, 07:35:02 PM
Finally found a decent picture of the hub puller I bought from the Gruffalo man at Sedgefield car boot a while back..


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: chriswgawne on 17 April, 2020, 07:37:11 PM
you are putting quite a strain on the drum if its sticky - there is a hub tool which screws into the thread for the grease cap which wont distort anything.
Chris


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: frankxhv773t on 18 April, 2020, 10:51:48 AM
No answers yet on your wipers. I had a look at some pictures and wondered if the arms are correct but the blade carriers wrong. They seem to have an off centre attachment point. I think the ones in the attached picture give an idea of what I mean. Anyway, referencing the way they lie when parked against the position of the bonnet centre strip and the position of the washer nozzles may be of some help.


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 18 April, 2020, 03:52:20 PM
Nice looking puller. There was very little stress on pulling them off. But thanks for the tip

Nothing like that Aurelia thing on the Appia

I'll have a look at the wipers in detail

Anyway, another good day in the garage sorting the front brakes out. Shoes all need new brake lining. So, when I get the new second set of axel stands, I will get the rears up again and send the rears off too. They were very marginal, so if I need to send them off, I might as well do them all. Good to know that we got good life out of the shoes before the car was laid up, ha ha!

Front pistons haven't moved for a while! but I have got them moving a bit by tapping a piece of wooden dowel into the piston where a steel dowel anyway pushes the shoe. I have squirted copious WD40 and will leave it a week. One is almost out.

Steering is now finished. Surprising how much that eccentric bolt moves the arm. I'll measure when the wheels are back on. I'll read up on whether its toe in or out that is favoured.

One photo shows the stub axel and I am afraid I'll be asking Clarky (if I may) for some of the rubber that goes around the metal again the plate: these are quite degraded.



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 18 April, 2020, 03:55:18 PM
Good point about using the bonnet centre strip as a guide, I will do that twm


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 18 April, 2020, 03:57:48 PM
Ah, you meant with the large Sedgefield puller, not my little one


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 April, 2020, 04:01:15 PM
I got my (very stuck) pistons out with a compressor and air nozzle - BUT care , they can shoot out and hit you in the eye or worse !!

The consortium has new seals and brake flexi's - probably worth doing while you are at it. On a final note, it has been said before, but the 3rd ser brakes can be difficult to seal. I found that aluminium washers were more effective than copper

Good luck


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: lancialulu on 18 April, 2020, 04:13:57 PM
A good trick to get pistons out is to fit a grease nipple in place of the bleed valve and pump grease in - much more controlled than compressed air but could be even more violent - take precautions...


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: chriswgawne on 18 April, 2020, 08:47:51 PM
That's a good tip Tim.
I like that.
Chris


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 19 April, 2020, 02:49:28 PM
One side's pistons came out with the brake pedal. I shall refurb that side and then push out the other on the pedal.

Copper/Aluminium washers? Where are those? The pistons are spring, rubber seal, brass piston. Then there are the outer rubber seals.The flexi hoses were replaced with good modern ones many years ago and are in good condition.



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 20 April, 2020, 07:37:44 PM
Didnt mean to ignore the air or grease tips. Sound good, but I am unsure about where and how to screw grease gun or compressor in (which I don't have anyway)


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: simonandjuliet on 20 April, 2020, 07:46:42 PM
Hi, the washers I was referring to are behind the backplate , where the unions are fitted to the wheel cylindres - they can be difficult to seal, especially if you try over-tightening them

On the road soon ??


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 20 April, 2020, 08:36:35 PM
Ok, don't intend to mess with that at this point

about another month I think. Not on holiday now, so just weekends. Brake shoes need sending off for re-lining, dynamo needs to come back, water pump bearings need to be found. Just ordered exhaust down pipe and water pump gaskets. If I get everything else sorted and its just water pump bearings, I'll use the old ones since they weren't too bad

I have a bit of body work to bodge as well

I will for sure let you know!


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 21 April, 2020, 05:30:56 PM
Down pipe has arrived, thanks Clarkey

Raises an interesting question which I will investigate at the weekend. The previous excuse for a down pipe inserted into the rest of the almost certainly non-standard exhaust about 10cms after the turn at the bottom. As you can see the right item is much longer, so I will need to fettle the middle section. (I will in due course get the rest of the system replaced)

Or, perhaps this is a way of the Lancia racing Gods telling me I need a shortened side-exit system?

Only kidding!


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 21 April, 2020, 05:33:40 PM
I have also got in touch with Spax following getting the order details from Clarkey (Thanks) and have ordered the rear shocks.

Just so there is a record on the forum, the model number needed is 'K65EE0 CUSTOM TELESCOPIC'


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 09 May, 2020, 03:52:22 PM
The old exhaust is now off and separated. Will likely get a middle and end section sorted as its pretty ropey, to go with the new down pipe.

Have put in the new rear hub seals, and changed the diff oil. We have had leaks which have ruined the brake shoes, so I will need to see if this has sorted the leak before putting the newly relined brake shoes back on.

I have done one half of the hand brake actuator lever, with new dust boots and rubber covers for the inner pivot point. Cleaned all that and regreased.

I now have the new alternator and will sort that next, along with the water pump.


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 10 May, 2020, 05:03:12 PM
I have been putting the water pump back together and I have a question or two.

The water pump was weeping a little from the drain holes, and thats why my brother and I thought it was worth changing bearings and seal. We thought the bearings weren't any good, but that turned out to be the dynamo. Ummm.

I have now put the pump together so that the bearings and C clip are in place, and I was simply going to put the seal in and peg the impeller, but then I thought about the seal, chatted with my brother and wondered how it would do its job.

So, the question is if we are missing a part (no. 4 in the attached diagram), or is this a part that only applied to earlier series? If some one could explain how the seal works we would be grateful. Is part no. 4 a cup type arrangement that presses into the impeller-side flange-with-wall, and holds the seal in place?

Otherwise, the brake pistons are all in and the handbrake pivot arm is tidied up and greased, with both sides having the new rubber dust boots.

The hub seals seem to have done their job as there were no tell tale drips. Obviously we will keep a eye out.

Here are the photos:


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 10 May, 2020, 05:07:08 PM
Better picture of diagram


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: Cassino on 11 May, 2020, 12:35:19 PM
Didnt mean to ignore the air or grease tips. Sound good, but I am unsure about where and how to screw grease gun or compressor in (which I don't have anyway)
When I did my front brakes, the wheel cylinders were pretty much stuck (pistons), after taking them to a motor cycle workshop ,their airline could not move them.
I popped them in an old Chip pan fryer. with water on the hob.....and after some heat they popped out, differential expansion, I guess?
If you do the master cylinder, that can be a right pain in the bottom!....but its really getting it out, and getting it back...Good luck.
Ian


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: chriswgawne on 11 May, 2020, 02:19:59 PM
Sorry to interfere but if it were me, I would definitely fit new  flexible brake hoses. You say they are a few years old and certainly over time they have a tendency to collapse. They aren't expensive and to fit them now would be a piece of cake.
Chris


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: simonandjuliet on 11 May, 2020, 03:51:13 PM
**** Warning - Appia Consortium Advert ****  !!

We had a new batch of flexi's made for the Consortium a couple of years ago - they aren't expensive !


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 11 May, 2020, 03:53:11 PM
I will certainly get those flexis!

Anybody got thoughts on the water pump issue?

It is amazing how much of a difference heat expansion makes!


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 16 May, 2020, 07:43:34 AM
Quick question, should I be using a special grease for the water pump?


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: nistri on 16 May, 2020, 06:28:27 PM
Ideally the calcium-based special grease for water pumps; however, a good quality lithium grease should be ok, Andrea


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 17 May, 2020, 03:35:36 PM
thanks, helpful

Some progress made this weekend

Water pump is assembled and fitted: we shall see how it fairs when the car is running. I got a spare from Jim incase it still weeps.

Machined front drums are ready.
Brake shoes have been returned, very nice, and no rivets, so will last a bit longer

I managed to get rear left brakes and hub on, quite a fiddly job.
Next weekend I will do the rest and bleed the system
 


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: lancialulu on 17 May, 2020, 04:35:40 PM

Brake shoes have been returned, very nice, and no rivets, so will last a bit longer

Bonded shoes - dont run them any lower than you would if they were riveted. I have had a bonded shoe de-laminate causing interesting results on my Transit van..... It still has a few mm left to wear..... One side of the axle was locked solid....


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: chriswgawne on 17 May, 2020, 05:43:08 PM
I always specify 'bonded and riveted' - I am a great believer in belts and braces particularly where safety is concerned.
Chris


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 18 May, 2020, 09:30:40 AM
Oh, ok, I will keep an eye out once we get moving! Thanks for the tips


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 31 May, 2020, 04:57:34 PM
Bad back last weekend

Yesterday I sorted a few things. Photos below show water pump grease poking through three drain holes; hubs were thoroughly washed and dried and packed with greased, with cap put on until ready to put them back on; alternator bracket fabricated as per Don Crossís diagram; rocker covers almost prepped for new crinkle paint. Phew!



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 07 June, 2020, 07:48:34 PM
Another good day today.

Fitted rocker covers, which I think look great!

Put all the brakes and hubs back bar the front left one which I managed to strip one of the shoe hinge bolts. It was not in great shape to start with, but even so, I feel a clot for doing that. I have emailed Jim to get a replacement as predictably none of the hundreds of bolt I have (admittedly mostly Fulvia) are the same.

 


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the refresh begins
Post by: sd39 on 02 August, 2020, 03:36:46 PM
Hello!

Have made some progress in recent weeks

The brakes are all sorted now, exhaust is now all on, all the rubber hoses have been replaced, rear shocks have been replaced: the Spax ones were built to the spec of a previous Appia Consortium order, K65EE0 Custom Telescopic, and are significantly less substantial than the ones I have taken off. I have also bodged a hole in the wing. Remember the body of this Appia is basically shot and uneconomic to repair, and my brother and I are in the process of sourcing a much better unrestored S3 car without so much rust (fingers crossed):  more on this in due course hopefully. So the plan is to make this one more or less presentable, use it, whilst we then get a fresh body shell sorted. I am in the process of repairing the neat little flexi/canvas/rubber radiator brackets, and am waiting for the right copper rivets for the job.

Jim and Don have been helping with the alternator and I now have a very expensive Racemettle lightweight one to put on. I am just waiting on the machining of a bush sleeve so that it hinges on the bottom bolt appropriately. Malvern rebores are doing this little job for me (they did the front brake drums which were scored), along with welding a bit of threaded bar to the broken air filter so this can be tightened up properly, and a bit of welding on a Fulvia window runner channel. Then I need to attached and wire the alternator up. I might get an auto-sparky to do this.

So in short, I am very close to being able to use the car, which shall be interesting, particularly as I still, like many people, have no where to go because of this strange immobility we are all experiencing.



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 13 September, 2020, 07:15:10 PM
Back from my holidays in Sweden and in the garage this weekend. The alternator is wired up. A local sparky who seems to have done a good job; at least the ignition light goes out. Radiator on, final checks, and it started very promptly, which isn't bad after, what, 3 months? Maybe longer. Anyway, I suppose if I can get it started after 10 years, a few months isn't going to be an issue.

So, took it for a quick spin; first, second and reverse used. gear linkage much better. Brakes work. Steering wheel is in wrong plane. Oh well: should have marked it! Water pump leaks whilst spinning. So I guess the surface that the seal spins on wasn't good enough. So I'll have to get the spare one I got dismantled and rebuilt. Will be able to use the car locally a bit regardless, since water loss not drastic. Will get it insured and off SORN.

Very pleased

My brother and I have also bought another S3 sedan! This is a restoration car, but the bodywork is much much better than ours and the plan will be to strip, repair and paint the new one, and then rebuild the car using best bits of both. Our car, which I explained from the outset is not economically repairable bodywork wise. More news of this new S3 when we have it in Worces.

Also effected a good repair on the radiator support straps. Very cheap Chinese copper rivets (couldn't get them in the uk), and rubber/fibre webbing of 12mm thickness, which was also a bit tricky to track down. I will paint the metal ends tough satin black. Need to get a radiator specialist to braize or otherwise fix the bracket for the other side.

A pretty solid day.

 


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 04 October, 2020, 04:55:23 PM
News Flash!

Eddie and I have bought another Appia S3 Sedan. Our car is not economically repairable, so we were always on the look out and we have got a much more plausible body to repair. So I will be starting to strip it very soon



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 04 October, 2020, 05:01:14 PM
Water pump sagas

I have the original sedan working now and have driven it, but as suspected the water pump leaks, so I can't really use it until I sort one that works. I have stripped down a replacement secondhand that Jim sent, and this is a much better housing and seal mating face. However, the seal I have got - the same as the first - doesn't seem to fit in the seat regardless of which way you place it. It just doesn't go into the seat.

So my question is were there different designs, and can you get different seals? The impeller on this replacement one, which I have broke in getting it stripped down, was not in brass like my original one.

Any suggestion would be most welcome

 


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 04 October, 2020, 05:02:11 PM
whoops, wrong photo. Sorry


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: nistri on 04 October, 2020, 05:41:28 PM
There were 3 types of seal (not interchangeable). Cavalitto did not stock them when I contacted him recently. However, a good machine shop can adapt the housing to a modern seal: this was done successfully on mine, Andrea



Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 05 October, 2020, 04:19:00 PM
Ahh, right. So the objective would be to take out sufficient metal from the wall so the hard rubber surface sits on the face?

That makes sense

Thats great thanks


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: nistri on 06 October, 2020, 07:42:48 AM
Yes, correct, good luck, Andrea


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 01 November, 2020, 08:46:50 PM
As I noted on  Dave Kennedy's post, had the housing machined out as per Andrea's comment. Radiator out, rebuilt pump (funny how the first time takes ages, repeat rebuilds/strip-downs, a third of the time), radiator in, and ran the engine for a good long while, and no leaks. So fingers crossed this might have solved it

I'll follow Dave's lead if it starts leaking again

Need to insure the car now and start using it!

Need to start stripping down the new body!


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 28 December, 2020, 08:35:29 AM
Update

Water pump is holding water, so thank you for the advice

Car is and has been on the road legally. Hurrah! But it has an issue with front wheel hubs which means I can't drive very far.  Initially I thought it was the hub bearings, but it's not that. After about a five mile journey both front hubs get very hot and the wheels do not turn by hand on axle stands, though they turn very freely when cold. That is, the brake shoes seem to expand and seize onto the recently skimmed drums. The shoes have been resurfaced, but as I say the drums/hub go on (and off) easily when cold (I don't have to use a puller). I have adjusted the four eccentric lobes to the mid point where the wheels turn most easily.

I was going to remove the hubs again today, take the shoes off, and ensure that that the eccentric lobes are in their lowest setting visually, but we have snow and its still snowing and the garage isn't so big that it'll all get a bit wet. So I thought I'd get some thoughts before having another look twm.

Could it be something about how I have put the shoes back on that is causing this? Are all the shoes the same? Have I put them on incorrectly?

Any ideas?


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: lancialulu on 28 December, 2020, 08:43:52 AM
Is there a build up of pressure in the hydraulic system? Collapsed hoses?


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: chriswgawne on 28 December, 2020, 09:31:41 AM
Sounds like a typical brake master cylinder problem to me where the seal carrier and seal do not return to rest after pedal pressure. In the past I have been told that this quite  often happens after re-sealing with Appia and Aurelia master cylinders. The solution is to ensure the bore of the aluminium master cylinder is very highly polished and to double check, run a bench test.
Chris  .


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: nistri on 28 December, 2020, 10:15:39 AM
The flexihoses can also deteriorate internally and produce this kind of problem in addition to the likely master cylinder issue, Andrea


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 28 December, 2020, 08:52:31 PM
Perfect. The master cylinder hasn't been used for 16 years whilst the car was stood in the US, so that is very likely to be the problem. I'll replace the hoses too!

Many thanks


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 30 December, 2020, 11:31:03 AM
I have ordered the seal kit and hoses.

In the manual there are instructions for Simplex and Duplex, and I am assuming that a Series 3 is Duplex (this is what's mentioned in the driver handbook)? Are there any other issues I should look out for in dismantling and refurbishing the master cylinder?


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 02 January, 2021, 07:22:05 PM
Spent today removing the brake master cylinder. Tough job! Exhaust manifold off. One of the 19mm copper pipes nut wouldn't undo with the short spanner, which is all that will go in that space. Thankfully, I was able to take the cylinder and pipe out together (having undone at the brake reservoir connection - this will also get a bit of a clean) and then undo the pipe nut on the bench. So all done now, ready for the strip down of the cylinder itself.

Seal kit on its way. Thanks Jim


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 26 March, 2021, 06:18:45 PM
Haven't been able to get in the garage for a while, but last weekend I got the brake master cylinder back on and system bled. All seems to be well, and problem solved judging by the short test drive. I have a week off work now and will get the front brake hoses replaced. to complete the job


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: GerardJPC on 28 March, 2021, 06:17:28 AM
That all sounds very good.  Having had new cylinders fitted to my Appia's rear brakes, I hope that its master cylinder is OK but haven't tested the brakes yet as the car's new alternator is still to be wired in.


Title: Re: TSU 306 - the restoration begins
Post by: sd39 on 29 March, 2021, 09:52:40 AM
Front flexis in yesterday. Easy job made harder by failing to notice copper washers. It was easier the second time! System bled, and road tested. All good, most wheels seemed to skid. Bit spongy.

Just got the rear one to do and then a thorough system bleed.

Good luck with the master cylinder. Fingers crossed