Lancia Motor Club

I was just getting round to thinking about starting seriously on my long term, semi derelict Berlina project when I came across a better prospect languishing in a barn south of Birmingham. It's a 1962 RHD 205 that seems to have been off the road for a considerable number of years following a NSF corner impact which squashed the headlight area and buckled the wing. The really difficult bit of reconstruction had been fabricated and welded up but had gone no further.

It is in black over silver with a red leather interior. I think it was originally black over grey but has had a bottom half blow over in the new colour. I rather like the silver but it has lots of blemishes and blistering as well as there being crunchy bits round all the wheel arches. All fluids are drained down so I have yet to see what sort of mechanical condition it is in.

It having arrived yesterday I have given the exterior a clean down and today I have cleaned up the headlight area, rust converted it and brushed a coat of primer on to preserve it.

Health issues are likely to make progress rather gradual but I will try to keep this updated and no doubt I will be seeking advice and opinions along the way.

I love Flaminias, so I am really looking forward to seeing your progress

Even if you don't DO anything, please post photos !

Frank.....just what have you done?! ;D

Have you consulted your local grumpy bank manager, or did you win the lottery??


But seriously, great stuff, lovely to see a quite rare Lancia feeling the love.

Hope it goes a bit more to plan than my Berlina, as Simon says, don't spare the photos.....ever!


P

The coupe in the top picture is also available. It's gutted, pretty rusty, has a large panel cut out of the side but has a floor mounted gear lever and a triple twin choke carb engine. It could be a good source of spares for an upgrade.

Looks good Frank

Ive still never seen a running Berlina in the UK - quite a rarity - all the very best with its restoration - certainly worthwhile

Cheers
Dave

Here are some more detailed pictures of its' condition. I haven't delved underneath yet but I know it needs at least one patch on a cill. Mechanically it seems to have been drained down properly for storage so I am not rushing to get involved in that side of things.

Bother! Why do my portrait format pictures end up on their side. Still, here are the last few for today.

Brilliant Frank, please keep us up to speed with progress and, as said above, lots of photographs!!!

Good luck and enjoy yourself!!!

                            Andy

Nice to see a Tony Brooks plaque on the car, the garage is still there but sadly no longer sells cars in Brooklands Road, Weybridge.

The crease in the front wing may be challenging. I have an impression the metal hasn't all been drawn forward before the new headlight surround was fabricated. Still, there are plenty of specialists round here.

The worst bit of exposed metal now has a coat of primer to protect it.

I have also dug out the battery which was a bit of a palaver.

First I removed the vacuum tank, then the horns, then I could reach the battery. The more obvious thing would be to remove the grille but that is held in by a lot of rusted up self tappers all the way round its' perimeter which look like they need a double jointed contortionist to access.

Here also is a picture of the headlight bezels showing the one that got squashed in the accident. Thankfully I have a whole heap of spares.

love it! you could live inside it if you get sick of it
Clarkey

Is the battery tray intact? Always a good guide to how its been treated as they always go first!

I agree, that's a good indicator of past treatment. The battery tray is intact but quite heavily battered from underneath. A bit of judicious realignment will be in order at some point.

Well done on your new requisition, Frank! It looks superb - and so much space inside! It certainly has that typical understated Lancia style! Good luck with your new car, and as others have stated, do please keep the pictures coming!!
 
Regards,
Tim

Today in between replacing storm damaged fencing and collecting a clutch slave cylinder for the Dedra I cleaned the loose rust, flakes of old paint and road debris out of the Flaminia's battery tray. I was pleased to be able to confirm the steel is sound but seriously dented. Once I have coaxed the front grille out I should be able to thump it back to a more normal shape and rust proof that area.

I have the battery retaining frame and the rods and wing nuts to hold it down but also found two knurled, chrome plated screw on knobs. I don't see how they fit into the assembly. Can anyone enlighten me?

They are the nuts that hold the wiring loom covers in place.
Circled in red in this photo.

The attractive chromed nuts are also used on the Aprilia wiring loom cover.
Cesare

Also on Aurelia wiring loom covers.
Chris

Thank you for enlightening me gentlemen. Sadly covering wires seems to be more honoured in the breach than in the observance. Out of three Berlinas I have had none had a wiring cover. However one probably isn't difficult to fabricate.

I have been trying to shift the radiator grille to get decent access to the battery tray but the retaining bolts, of which there are at least half a dozed, are proving recalcitrant. Whilst leaving them dosed in WD40 and letting the skin grow back on my knuckles I have been investigating the engine. Happily with the plugs out it turns over nice and freely and shows oil pressure which is a relief. This week I should be able to check out the cooling system and ignition to see how she runs.

Spotted at Goodwood Meeting last weekend!

That's excellent Charles. Is it right hand drive and did you happen to get the registration number? There is one other one registered in the club but I can't find my old members lists at the moment to look up the owner.

Invedtigation of the cooling system is proving interesting. Those who are familiar with the flaminia know that the bottom radiator hose attached to an aluminium housing bolted to the radiator with a steel bolt running through its' centre. Also attached to this housing are a drain pipe from the block via a banjo connection and a brass drain tap with a long handle extending of to near the top of the radiator.

BB came with the cooling system drained down and on investigation the aluminium housing was detached from the radiator. This turns out to be because the attaching bolt has snapped about half way along. The housing itself is completely choked with aluminium corrosion as is the hole in the radiator. The corrosion on the housing is so bad that it has eaten all the way through at the bottom. I have a spare that may well be serviceable and also a drain tap which is not seized.

It would be very helpful to know if there is a recommended method for dissolving the aluminium corrosion.

Looks like one off an Appia

Does this help?

Does look very similar to the Appia.the central bolt on the Appia is made of brass. I think that the Consortium had new ones remade in stainless.i believe new castings are available in Italy - sooty if there are any errors typing on my phone!!

Thank you Charles. I have been thinking about making a list of UK berlinas and that is a new one to me. Maybe it's a newish import. For your next challenge, do you know what the badge is on the grille?

Frank it doesn't blow up very well in the photo, but I think it might be the same as presented to me and others by the Italian Club Valsesia Lancia Story when we visited Fobello and the Lancia Villa back about 1995.

Brian
8227 8)

Grille badge.

The logo on the badge, 'KCA' looks like the logo used by Giancarlo Cappa, who ran a well known Lancia restoration business in the 1980s and possibly later.

Colin

It had a ' Kelham and Thornley' sticker in the rear window, so they may have more information.

It has been in at Thornley Kelham for some work.
I do know who owns it, but I am not at liberty to say.

Thank you for the replies on the badge. Given how immaculate the exterior of the car is the Thornley Kelham connection figures.

As the alloy housing at the bottom of the radiator is not even fit for scrap I abandoned the penetrating oil and got out the dremel. I wanted to salvage the brass banjo bolt so cut that portion out first then carefully cut away the remains of the aluminium. As you can see in the pictures the aluminium housing is in a truly horrible state. Next job is to extract the radiator to see what work is needed on that side of the bottom hose connection as the end of the sheared off mounting bolt is still embedded in it.

The radiator is out but unfortunately one of the brass pipes which provide the return flows from the two heater radiators has become detached from the bottom tank. As a result I have put that radiator on one side and borrowed the radiator from my other car. That in turn has a seized drain tap and the mounting bolts are trapped behind the brass heater pipe. Thankfully the aluminium hose housing unbolted without difficulty and it is all getting cleaned up.

I ordered some new radiator hoses from Classic Silicone Hoses. Being Lancia people they are a pleasure to deal with and having placed my order at 3:30 pm yesterday I was delighted that the postman turned up with them at 11:30 am today!

The banjo bolt was, as expected, clogged with gunk.

The struggle to gain access to the crumpled inner wing to try to remove the dents continues slowly via many inaccessible and seized nuts and bolts. I have the same issue with the radiator grille which needs to come out so I can de-rust the battery tray and front valance. However I have progressed slightly with the cooling system. My spare radiator drain tap cleaned up nicely and is in working order. Although it is designed on the same principle as the Appia it isn't quite the same as the first and second photographs show. The radiator itself has revealed a problem too. I have investigated the loose heater return pipe in the radiator as I will need it eventually.The separate heater systems for driver and front passenger have their respective return pipes attached at either side of the radiator bottom tank. Interestingly the loose pipe runs all the way through the bottom tank so the water is discharged at the same point as the engine bottom hose. Another nice detail is that a separate little brass shroud is soldered over the pipe where it enters the radiator.

I now have the radiator grille removed and can make some more progress. Sometimes I don't love Lancia over engineering. Does it really take fifteen inaccessible bolts and twelve spring clips to hold a grille and it's surround in place. Just to make sure they added mastic to make sure the surround didn't rattle. With the grille out I have been able to extract the ventilation trunking from inside the bent wing. The next step will be to remove the soundproofing quilt from inside the wing.

I have found that BB is not registered at DVLA so I am applying to retain the registration number on a non transferable basis. To do this, as many will know, I have to get certification from the club that it is a genuine complete car. Barbara Longlands has commissioned Brian Hilton to do the report and he suggested it would be best to put all the bits together for the necessary photographs. Having sorted out lights and front bumper to replace the missing parts BB looks quite smart so I thought I would share a couple of pictures. It all has to come apart again but it's encouraging to have a vision of the intended end result.

Inspired by the AGM I have cracked on with BB. The battery tray is now a bit less dented and has a coat of hammerite, the spare radiator is repainted and installation has begun with new heater hose. I think the original clamps can be reused though it remains to be seen if this theory will hold water. Interestingly after Simon fabricated a special drive  socket for tightening I have found a 3/8th socket does the job reasonably well.

Hmm..there should have been more pictures than that.

The radiator has gone back in, come out again, gone back in and the hoses connected. I found that once the radiator is in situ it's impossible to connect the cylinder block end of the flexible drain pipe hence the removal and refitting. I have cleaned and painted the components to refit the battery and am toying with the idea of trying to remake little rubber buffers for the thermostatic shutters on the radiator.

It does indeed hold water, well it does when static so I am hopeful for it once it is under pressure. I realised the only hose I hadn't removed was the little bypass hose that goes from a banjo connection on the top of the water pump into the thermostat housing. When I tried undoing the steel bolt on the banjo connector it promptly sheared. The passage inside the remains of the bolt was completely solid with rust which I had to drill out. Thankfully the remaining stump is large enough to fasten a hose in place so a jury rigged system will have to do for the time being. Flushed with success I fitted the battery. The threaded part of the clamping bolts is far too short for the modern battery I have so I had to cut some tubular spacers to hold everything in place. The engine turned over with the plugs out and a little oil pressure began to show. However when I put the plugs in and tried to turn it over the electrics completely died. The next task therefore will be to clean up all the electrical connections and components that I can find.

I am enjoying all the detail and photos - thanks

Let us know how you get on with the shutter rubbers, some Appia owners will be interested !

Simon, I am delighted to be able to provide some entertainment in return for all your wonderful posts. Sadly I can't match your rate of progress though.

I would be interested in some shutter rubbers too for our Aurelias. At the moment I orphanise brake bleed valve  cover rubbers but this is not ideal.
Chris

I have been largely distracted into other activities lately though I have been stripping down my spare doors to learn the process for when work has to be done on BB's doors. However the good news is that a letter dropped through the letterbox this morning with my registration document. I have successfully retained the original registration so many thanks to Barbara Longlands and Brian Hilton for their invaluable services.

Frank,
Pleased to be able to help.
If your surrounds for the door market lights don't clean up I have spares.
BrIan 8)

Thanks Brian, I'll see how it goes. Being stainless steel they should be all right. The rust is from the mounting screws.

I have been plugging on with the door stripping which has been a major task. Here are some pictures of the bits. The channels that the window glass sit in are seriously prone to rust. There is a piece of felt along the bottom of the window specially to retain water then sealed in with mastic over the top of the channel both inside and out to ensure any trapped water has the hardest possible job escaping. The rubber covers for the glass mounting holes are rather neat. The picture of the parts all laid out rather belies the amount of work it took to get them all off. Of course they exclude the interior door trims, handles both inside and out, and the myriad nuts, bolts, washers and screws.

At last I am finished on the spare doors so they can go back into storage and I can start thinking about the starter electrics on BB.

Looks like some good progress has been made with those doors. I would hesitate to take mine apart as I would forget how to put them back together! it looks like a job for a nice warm summers day.
Clarkey

Those doors have plenty of issues but crucially the front doors are reasonably good where they extend forward under the windscreen. The originals on the blue car are rather a problem. Today I got the doors packed away back inside the car so I can get at BB again.