Lancia Motor Club

Buy, Sell and Search => Spares required => Topic started by: Andrew1950 on 22 December, 2015, 04:22:18 PM



Title: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Andrew1950 on 22 December, 2015, 04:22:18 PM

Looking for a starter in good condition to fit a 1968 4 speed Fulvia coupe. Thanks


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Jaydub on 22 December, 2015, 08:35:12 PM
Hi Andrew,
I have suggested this in a previous post, but try Auto Electrical Supplies in Worcs. Tel 01584 819552.  Look at their Hi Torque Starters.  Twice the power, half the current consumption and 50% lighter. 155.00 I think.
Not cheap but so much easier on the battery and therefore easier starting.
John.


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Andrew1950 on 22 December, 2015, 09:15:14 PM


Thank you.

Unfortunately, it's way over my budget!

Hopefully, someone may reply!

Thanks anyway.


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: lancialulu on 22 December, 2015, 10:51:53 PM
Whats wrong with the existing one? Can it not be refurbished by an auto elec shop??


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Andrew1950 on 23 December, 2015, 02:13:09 PM
I took the starter of, cleaned the armature, fitted new brushes and it worked outside of the car. Then I fitted the starter but the starter just whines. The only thing I can think of is a worn starter ring gear. I turned the flywheel thinking that there might be wear on the flywheel cog but the starter still whines.

So it must be worn starter ring gear cogs!

So if anyone has one or, knows another way, please PM me.

Many thankds


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: lancialulu on 23 December, 2015, 02:33:21 PM
Weak solenoid not throwing the cog forward??


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: fay66 on 23 December, 2015, 05:47:13 PM
Weak solenoid not throwing the cog forward??
Dirt in the track so so starter cog not throwing in. ???

Brian
8227 8)



Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Andrew1950 on 23 December, 2015, 06:26:54 PM
Sorry Brian, excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by 'track'

Any chance you have a working S1 Fulvia coupe S1 starter + regulator? (3 terminal box type) I believe the S2 starter is slightly different.

I got another 3 terminal Bosch black box type regulator which looks exactly like my 3 terminal, black box type Marelli) I connected up the exact same wires but still the dash light comes on. I removed the cover and pressed the left coil down (nearest the wing on a rhd car) then the dash light goes off but then comes on again after 30 seconds.

Thanks


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Richard Fridd on 23 December, 2015, 06:45:35 PM
Pinion gear ('throw out gear') ?


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Jaydub on 23 December, 2015, 08:50:25 PM
Make sure you have a good earth strap between engine and chassis,and where the starter bolts to the engine is clean, as a poor earth will make the starter solenoid action weak. Also try "jumping " another battery to the one on the car to ensure good voltage.John


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Andrew1950 on 23 December, 2015, 09:47:07 PM
Thank you John.

I shall take your advice!

Merry Christmas


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: fay66 on 24 December, 2015, 01:00:18 PM
Sorry Brian, excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by 'track'

Any chance you have a working S1 Fulvia coupe S1 starter + regulator? (3 terminal box type) I believe the S2 starter is slightly different.

I got another 3 terminal Bosch black box type regulator which looks exactly like my 3 terminal, black box type Marelli) I connected up the exact same wires but still the dash light comes on. I removed the cover and pressed the left coil down (nearest the wing on a rhd car) then the dash light goes off but then comes on again after 30 seconds.

Thanks
When the starter solenoid operates it pulls/pushes the starter motor pinion along a spiral shaft to engage with the flywheel, before actually spinning the engine over, if the track, or whatever you like to call it, (I can't think of the right terminology ???)is dirty then the pinion might not engage with the flywheel.

Sorry I can't help with another starter motor.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Andrew1950 on 24 December, 2015, 01:08:11 PM
When I say the starter whines, I mean the solenoid. Tried tapping it, giving it extra power by cables on another battery as well as the one in the car but the solenoid still whines. Earth is tight. Mystery indeed!

I have time over Christmas, so I think I'll whip it out again, jump it with the cables and see what happens. But I know the pinon gear will shoot out.

But as a previous post reply mentioned, it must be a weak solenoid.

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to reply.


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: lancialulu on 24 December, 2015, 01:11:10 PM
Is it the starter that came with the car? Might be a series 2 starter?? Is it a Bosch and can you take a photo of it?


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Andrew1950 on 24 December, 2015, 01:18:19 PM

To be honest, at the start I gave 2 S1 starters to my local machine shop. He told me that the pinon gear was faulty and swapped it for a Bosch 0001 115500 pinon gear. I will take out the starter, check the numbers and post it here.

Thanks again.


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Andrew1950 on 24 December, 2015, 01:56:32 PM
Just took off the starter and it's also a Bosch 0001 115500. Stuck cables on it and again, the pinon gear shoots out.


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: Andrew1950 on 24 December, 2015, 02:00:03 PM
As you can see there is a little damage on the upper part of the pinon gear where is says 907. When I turn the pinon gear it's quite free (loose with no tension)

Any suggestions?


Title: Re: Wanted: S1 Fulvia coupe starter motor
Post by: ben on 25 December, 2015, 02:29:39 PM
You describe the pinion as shooting out when you test the starter away from the engine which is what it should do of course but you don't mention whether the motor also responds by vigorously spinning.
It is quite a common problem that the solenoid pulls the pinion into engagement but the heavy duty contacts in the end of the solenoid fail to make a good enough connection to power up the motor properly.
I cannot tell from your photo's if the solenoid is the type that can be dismantled but if it is it may respond to having the switch contacts cleaned. This will probably mean  you have to unsolder the wire on the end of the casing to allow it to be pulled apart.

On the other hand if the motor does run as it should but the pinion is failing to engage the ring gear I would suggest you take some measurements to see if the gears are in the correct allignment when the pinion is in its fully "thrown" position before you randomly start removing the spacing washers.

If everything does seem to be correct you are left with the most likely problem as one of insufficient electrical power reaching the motor due to a poor connection elsewhere. After an extended period of trying to operate the starter (in the whirring mode) if there is a poor connection it will probably get warm--or even hot--so feel all the connection points from both battery terminals onwards to try to find which one it is.

Good Luck