Lancia Motor Club

General => General Chat => Topic started by: Goff on 03 October, 2007, 10:27:16 PM



Title: Personal Imports
Post by: Goff on 03 October, 2007, 10:27:16 PM
Dear All

Does anybody out there know what the correct procedure is for importing a vehicle  from mainland Europe? What difference does it make if the vehicle is in a non-EU country ie. Switzerland? What are the do's and dont's? Apart from the actual purchase
price agreed for the vehicle are there any taxes or duties to pay? Most importantly what are the major pitfalls to avoid?

Ebay is an obvious source to scour for a suitable purchase but are there other sources and how easy are they to identify and contact?

Look forward to your replies.


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: fay66 on 03 October, 2007, 10:42:12 PM
Have a look at this link http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/importsapproval/howtoimportyourvehicleperman4559 ;D
It's the Department of Transports document of do's & Don'ts,  It used to come in a booklet form as PI3, and I would expect there is  an updated version, if not the site has lots of information, it was what I used when I personally imported my new Y Elefantino Rosso in from Rotterdam in 1999, & I found it very useful.

If you stick to the letter of what it says, you may well not be able to bring the vehicle you're after into the UK, so read it with a touch of tongue in cheek.

Brian Hilton
8227 8)


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: HPEHF on 05 October, 2007, 12:22:51 PM
Goff,

The first point is whether the car is less than 6 months old or 6000miles then their is a difference, But cant remember.

If you are buying new, then you can play the tax game? check the tax in each country if it is higher than 17.5% buy tax free and pay British tax. If less pay the tax in the country of origin. Some countries like Holland charge a luxury tax on cars as well as vat, so the export fiqure is a lot less going the tax free route.

If you are importing from out side the EU then you have to pay VAT (on the price you paid) and some countries you are also charged import tax. As Brian says read the form with a bit of tounge in cheek with regard to the speedo (not an MOT item) and headlights.

Regards

Simon
8477


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Lindsay on 05 October, 2007, 12:33:45 PM
My understanding is if it's less than 6 months old, you pay VAT in the UK regardless of whether it has been paid abroad.

EU - over 6 months old, no VAT to pay.

Non EU - pay VAT, this includes switzerland. This is done on the basis on HM Customs valuing the car. You can give them an invoice but they wont necessarily calculate on the basis of that.

Over 10 years old - no Certificate of conformity needed and all you need is an MOT.
Under 10 years old, need the certificate of conformity, have to prove it has a mph speedo and lights "permanently" dipping to the left - ie no stickies, even though stickies are ok for the MOT. As you can't get RHD dipping lamps for the Kappa, you need to be inventive!

Not sure about the getting here. In Germany you can buy transit plates which give you 5 days insurance, perhaps 200 euros.

Bit of a hassle but worth it in the end.


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: nyssa7 on 05 October, 2007, 06:58:49 PM
One beauty of buying a used Lancia (probably excluding integrales) from Switzerland is that HM Customs have no idea of their value, something like a Thema or kappa might as well be valueless to them. They valued by Thema SW at 44! The fuel in it cost more than that, but I wasn't going to complain when presented with a VAT bill of less than 7 ;D


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: fay66 on 06 October, 2007, 09:20:23 AM
Re transit number plates, if you're buying new & driving it back you will need transit plates to get it out of the country you are buying from, arranged by the Dealer, you will also need insurance, I got insurance on my Ypsilon on the chassis number until I got it registered in the UK, & then the insurance company changed the documentation.
Certificate of conformity, As I bought my ypsilon from the Netherlands it was supplied in Dutch, so unless the DVLA have it translated they won't even know what it says. in 1999 the C of C only stated that the vehicle complied with european regulations, with nothing specific about speedo & headlights, I understood from Tim speechley at the time that it would be going specific for headlights & Speedo, but I don't know if this came in or when.
Brian Hilton
8227 8)


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Scarpia on 06 October, 2007, 09:41:11 AM
The rhd /headlights issue remains a problem of course for the uk but since 2003 all new vehicles sold in Europe have a  "european certificate of conformity" rather than a country specific one.This has made the importing of vehicles from other European countries a great deal easier. We have imported several vehicles from germany to Belgium and Uk to belgium in the last 15 years and most recently last year.On previous occasions it took weeks of petty admin and frustration . Last year it took 3 days from collecting the vehicle in Germany to receiving the belgian number plate with no hassle and negligible cost.

For older vehicles it remains a struggle. At the moment I am registering a UK fulvia (raised headlamps) in Belgium.I need to therefore get a "gelijkvormigheidsattest" (think yourselves lucky you can call it a "certificate of conformity"). For this they have to measure everything, it will cost a 150 euro's approx but fortunately they are not making me swop the headlamps. They have agreed to accept stick on deflectors as a practical solution.(no doubt until some petty official spots them in next years mot and makes a problem of it....)
If the vehicle is pre 68 you don't need to certificate which makes life a lot easier.
(just seen a nice 67 fulvia gt saloon for sale, mmm...)


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: fay66 on 06 October, 2007, 06:03:02 PM
Hi Scarpia,
go  for it, if you've never had a saloon you don't know what your missing ;D on the other hand I am biased ;)

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: fensaddler on 06 October, 2007, 06:47:43 PM
No - I agree, saloons are gorgeous...


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Betaboy2.0 on 08 October, 2007, 09:54:29 PM
...but all Lancia saloons are better than the Coupes!!! (Beta, Gamma, Fulvia, Flavia etc etc....not that i am at all biased!!)


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: donw on 09 October, 2007, 06:12:47 PM
Goff

There is areal problem with insurance since the EU changed things to "simplify" purchase abroad! the regulation expect you to buy from a dealer who can arrange insurance locally, private sales seem to have been forgotten in drafting to regs.

You now have to have insurance taken out in the country in which the car is registered, UK insurers are no longer permitted to issue a covernote on a foreign registered vehicle.  Most foreign insurers will only issue cover to someone resident in their country so you need to have an address this could be supplied by the seller if willing.  The only other alternative is to bring your purchase back on a trailer.

Don


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Rodders on 10 October, 2007, 04:06:27 PM
Good and valid point, Don.  All my french insurance expired the day I moved back to the UK, though as I trailered all my cars back here it wasn't a problem.  However it WILL be a problem when I want to take one for an MoT!  I have insurance on my UK-registered cars, which I believe includes TP cover for any vehicle I drive.  Do you suppose this cover extends to cars on foreign plates?

Rodders


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: donw on 10 October, 2007, 04:38:09 PM
Rodders

The driving other cars extension almost certainly only covers vehicles you do NOT own.

Were your cars previously registered in UK and if so do you have the old V5?  If yes then you can get a cover note on that number and apply to DVLA for its realloction.

Your UK insurer can give up to 3 weeks cover on either the chassis number (on which you can also get an MOT) or the foreign number, you then have to get the MOT reissued once you have a UK reg (or you forget it till next year).

Still it all makes work for the public emplyees who are paid from our taxes.

If this does not give you enough ring me.

Don


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: toby2449 on 11 January, 2008, 01:58:30 PM
mmm, this topic got me thinking! (rare event indeed!), since it seems Lancia won't be returing to these shores, i am thinking about doing a personal import for the new Delta, & only thought about the UK as a country of origin, but surely if i went to mainland Europe i'd save quite a bit of money as i'd be working in Euro's & not Sterling, however that then leads me onto more problems,ie which country to buy in,dealers etc... oh & does a european dealer have to supply a RHD car??


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: fensaddler on 11 January, 2008, 06:00:40 PM
Yes - you could order a UK spec car with RHD in any EU country, and play the game to get the best tax free price.  When exchange rates made this really attractive a few years ago I bought my car this way from a dealer in the Netherlands, and had it delivered to my front door.  There is a little more paperwork, but it is also notable that the options (such as leather seats) were half the price in the Netherlands compared to the UK, so I was able to spec up for very little, as well as getting the basdic car for 25% under UK list.  Just make sure you spec up to the UK equivalent, or the thing will be harder to sell on later, especially if you want to sell it on in the UK.  Clearly being in Eire, you might as well look around, since the level of hassle will be much the same, but the prices may vary substantially.  Moreover the sense of satisfaction at having completely beaten the system is really very good!


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: toby2449 on 11 January, 2008, 08:15:05 PM

cheers for that Chris! i'm off now to save an extra few bob each month so i can pay off my Mondeo motor loan quicker!!


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Alan Temple on 23 January, 2008, 08:57:15 PM
Hi Toby

My Dad now lives in ROI. What's the situation with local ROI taxes if you import a car from the UK or Europe?

Is it different tax levels between brand new cars - less than 6 months old or less than 6k miles on the clock, if that's the benchmark - or used cars older than this.

I had a look on the Irish Autotrader site a couple of weeks ago and a 5 year old MINI One with three owners and 60K miles on the clock was 10.5k. This was the cheapest ROI MINI on there, although there were UK dealers advertising cheaper cars with the caveat "car in UK" or similar.

I then decided to have a laugh and looked at the price of a used Aston Martin DB9 which was a staggering euro 250k which is a lot more than a brand new car costs here inc VAT.

Any info or hints much appreciated.


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: toby2449 on 23 January, 2008, 09:20:10 PM

Hi, well unfortunetly when we buy new cars here in ireland we get screwed into the ground.

We have two types of tax on cars, VRT & VAT.

I've looked into this recently & heres the situation. If you import a car which is less than 6 months old or has less than 6000km on the clock you'd pay VRT & VAT. The VRT (vehicle registration tax) is a percentage of the calculated IRISH value of the car, depending on engine size, this can be from 22.5% to 30% of the value, then on top of that you'd pay VAT @ 21%

If the car is over 6 months old, or has more than 6000km on it you'd pay VRT but not VAT.

The revenue in ireland is very open about the costs of importing a car, actually i'd have to say the revenue here are probably the most open of anywhere! below is a website constructed by the Irish revenue to help you calculate your costs...

https://www.ros.ie/VRTEnquiryServlet/ShowVRT


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: toby2449 on 23 January, 2008, 09:58:28 PM

just one more point about bringing a car into ireland, just keep in my that "road tax" here is also based on the vehicle's engine size

here's a site that tells you what you'd pay each year....

http://www.whatcar.ie/roadtaxcalculator.php

if you need anything else just ask & i'll do my best!


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Alan Temple on 24 January, 2008, 12:35:09 AM
Toby mate. Thanks a lot, that's great.

I'll let the old man know and keep you posted.

Cheers again

Alan.


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Goff on 03 February, 2008, 10:41:54 PM
 Brian,

Your import saved me a lot of hastle!! I recently purchased the pocket rocket from Gerard and very pleased with it I am to.

Thanks for your previous advice

Regards

Goff


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: fay66 on 04 February, 2008, 12:18:30 AM
Brian,

Your import saved me a lot of hastle!! I recently purchased the pocket rocket from Gerard and very pleased with it I am to.

Thanks for your previous advice

Regards

Goff

Hi Goff,
Pleased she's gone to someone who will appreciate her, she's a cracking little car, I asked Gerard for first refusal as I would have liked her back, now that I can use my right arm again, unfortunately I couldn't justify adding another Lancia to the fleet :(
Gerard has looked after her very well and she looked great when I saw her last year when my Fulvia acted as wedding car for him & Christine.
Any help I can give at any time please ask, hopefully all the history file came over to you as well.
If you want any photos of her in early days let me know.

Brian
8227
 8)


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: lee69 on 04 February, 2008, 02:21:18 PM
Goff

welcome to the curvy world of Y! (I assume you bought Brian's Elefantino?).  I hope to see you around in it during the summer.


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: angelorange on 09 February, 2008, 01:39:32 PM
Best thing I ever did when it comes to buying cars!

Do lots of research and if a modern car make sure you get full info such as emissions (CO2, if diesel then NOx and particualtes) etc as the DVLA now base car tax on that.

If you drive on import plates then you are insured 3rd party across EU. Good idea to get UK insurer to cover you based on chassis number. Go to local DVLA with all docs and enough redies for first registration. Buy and fit plates and Tax disc - notify insurer of new number plate and away you go!

Result: Audi A2 1.2 TDI 86g/km CO2 therefore ZERO road tax and if careful 93mpg or around 70mpg at motorway speeds.

See: www.A2OC.net

My Fulvia racecar was also an import.

Beware VAT levels in EU have changed eg: Germany was 16% now 19%



Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: fensaddler on 09 February, 2008, 10:03:23 PM
Never has a car been so woefully ahead of its time as the A2.  Poor-selling and over-priced when on sale, now that Audi have stopped making it, it is rapidly looking to be the sort of car every manufacturer wants in their range. Brilliant engineering, too soon for the market, and an equally poor decision to axe it, just before oil began its rise to $100 a barrel.


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: peterbaker on 10 February, 2008, 12:51:55 PM
Why do ultra economic and small enviro friendly (?) cars have to be so hard on the eye. Im sure the downfall of the A2 was its looks.   


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: fensaddler on 11 February, 2008, 02:09:17 PM
Actually I rather like the A2, but then beauty is subjective...


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: angelorange on 13 February, 2008, 06:24:37 PM
Even better the tyres are the same as S1 Fulvia !  145/80 R14 Bridgestone and Continental.

And cost around 40 each.

The great thing about the A2 is the Tardis like interior - it has more boot space than a Golf and more leg room in the back than an A4. In many ways it is like a modern Fulvia Saloon - fun to drive, practical and incredibly aerodynamic and OK it's no Coupe in styling but my one has Cd 0.25 same as a 2 seat Honda Insight Coupe but with twice the pax capacity and yet similar MPG returns.





Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: angelorange on 07 March, 2008, 04:37:58 PM
Full write up on my little A2 in this month's Audi Driver magazine. :)


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Parisien on 12 June, 2014, 07:34:56 AM
This seems an appropriate thread to ask for some info/help.

In between times am thinking of buying a LHD Lancia/FIAT car in the EU, more likely France and with a French MOT, drive it back to UK

Has anyone done this recently, re insurance on a foreign registered car, plus breakdown cover?

All advice appreciated.


P


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: simonandjuliet on 12 June, 2014, 07:48:47 AM
I can help out with a friendly, English speaking insurer here in France (ALLIANZ group), who I am sure would insure the car as a French car which you can use for a limited time in the UK/Ireland until you register and re-insure there.  I think he can use an EU address for the policy (he did before I moved here permanently)


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: peteracs on 12 June, 2014, 10:23:52 AM
Hi Frank

Curious why you want to buy in France, are you planning to keep the car reg in France and use it there mainly?

Peter


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Parisien on 12 June, 2014, 01:30:40 PM
Thanks again, for all your help and insights Simon.

Hi Peter, just something to enjoy in N Ireland , whilst I await the rebirth of the B12!


P


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 June, 2014, 01:48:13 PM

Frank, I understand...

Normandy (within easy reach for a summer camping weekend with the family, take in some D Day memorials) - Lancia - within budget:

http://www.leboncoin.fr/collection/670622259.htm?ca=4_s


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: peteracs on 12 June, 2014, 01:57:14 PM
Thanks again, for all your help and insights Simon.

Hi Peter, just something to enjoy in N Ireland , whilst I await the rebirth of the B12!


P

The reason I asked is that I always had the impression that France was expensive for second hand cars.

I guess Simon and others can give us a more realistic view on that however.

Peter


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 June, 2014, 02:00:00 PM
Got me started...

http://www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/662451053.htm?ca=4_s


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Parisien on 12 June, 2014, 02:05:16 PM
Depends what you're looking for, condition and time of year..........

They seem to keep everything for ever......lots of stuff out there to restore, way more apparently than in UK/Italy



:)


P


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: lancialulu on 12 June, 2014, 03:06:58 PM
While I am not anticipating importing, I can say that the south of France is good hunting ground for cheap post Fiat Lancias. I bought a rust free 100,000 mile Delta 1.6GTi.e. with 21 months MOT (France has 24 month tickets..) for the price of a new windsurfer on the jolly old leboncoin. Then I bought a set of NordAuto roof bars for the car for the price of a cheap lunch, and three windsurfers of varying sizes all in good working order with sails etc for dinner for 2.... All I had to do for my own peace of mind was to put a new tyre on the spare wheel. All the other 4 had good Michelins on.

By law cars have to be sold with a minimum of 12 (?) months MOT (unless it is being broken). I understand that no salt is used down in the South west Med (Minervois so cars just wear out rather than rust out).


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Parisien on 12 June, 2014, 03:10:41 PM
All useful info, I must chase up one or two sellers, I missed a very nice v6 FIAT this am.

So even a private seller must have a car MOTed before selling?

Simon has also provided some useful tit bits....hoping to move things on


P


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: stanley sweet on 12 June, 2014, 03:28:10 PM
Thanks again, for all your help and insights Simon.

Hi Peter, just something to enjoy in N Ireland , whilst I await the rebirth of the B12!


P

The reason I asked is that I always had the impression that France was expensive for second hand cars.


Peter


You see some outrageous stuff in my local paper. I have a 1997 126,000 mile diesel Xantia and saw the equivalent in the local paper for 3500 euros. Just before we came over we picked up a full history 40,000 mile petrol Xantia for 700 in mint condition. After running it here for two years we sold it for 1800 euros.  I don't know if things have changed in the UK but a 17 year old high mileage Xantia would almost be a giveaway to someone in the family. Having said that, I don't know which attitude is best. I've worked with people in the UK who consider anything over 2 years old as an 'old banger'. There is something about the way the French buy a car and stick with it.


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Parisien on 13 June, 2014, 02:18:50 PM
Gentlemen of the forum, can anyone up-date me on the hurdles which must be overcome to buy/export a Lancia from Italy?

Do dealers provide temporary insurance to those cars being exported if being driven, does it include an assistance component like they do in France? Costs associated with an export?

Any and all info welcomed


P


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Parisien on 13 June, 2014, 07:37:39 PM
Useful link -

http://www.maserati-indy.co.uk/alfieri05.htm

P


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Parisien on 14 June, 2014, 11:39:28 AM
Just bumping this....hoping to hear of a personal experience


P


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Paul Greenway on 15 June, 2014, 06:47:13 PM
Gentlemen of the forum, can anyone up-date me on the hurdles which must be overcome to buy/export a Lancia from Italy?

Do dealers provide temporary insurance to those cars being exported if being driven, does it include an assistance component like they do in France? Costs associated with an export?

Any and all info welcomed


P

Hi Frank,

Please refer to topic "importing a Thesis" under Thesis model header. Insurance is extremely difficult (nigh on impossible)to obtain unless you have an Italian address or you can do as I did which was to get it through my employers fleet insurance- see "Insuring a Thesis" under Insurance header. Sorry not very good with links!

Regards,

Paul.


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Parisien on 15 June, 2014, 06:52:53 PM
Hi Paul, thanks for reply.

Am hoping as a classic vehicle it will be a bit easier, not sure if details on the link above are still correct about exporting with reg plates still on car with proviso that you send them back!

They are familiar with exporting classic, so hoping it can get sorted.

I believe also that breakdown insurance offered in UK is only valid if journey starts and ends in UK, does anyone know a way around this?

P



Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: fay66 on 15 June, 2014, 11:04:26 PM
The problem I had was that I couldn't book a return trip from the Continent unless I took a car both ways, I even offered to pay for a car both ways but only bring one back, but they wouldn't wear that either. as I'd flown out to collect my Elephantino from Rotterdam and drive it back, I had to book the ferry when I got to Calais, I couldn't use the French Ferry website to book a single (cheaper) trip back from Calais as you must have a French Address to book on their French site.
Needless to say it cost an arm and a leg in comparison to a complete round trip with a car from the UK.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: peteracs on 16 June, 2014, 06:58:05 AM
Eurotunnel let you book either way a single trip, I do it all the time when we go to France as never 100% know when I will be returning. Admittedly not as cheap as the ferries normally, but on single trip maybe? (We use their frequent traveller 10 trip package which has fixed pricing per trip, so not sure of pricing for a one off)

Peter


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Parisien on 16 June, 2014, 08:01:10 AM
Hi Peter, this is a requirement of the breakdown insurance or even insuring a car not registered in your name, the trip has to start and end in UK.

This is for Simon, as regards the insurance guy you know, can he insure an Italian car temporarily for a trip through 3 countries for 3/4 days? I have a French address in my name.


P


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: peteracs on 16 June, 2014, 11:29:14 AM
Hi Peter, this is a requirement of the breakdown insurance or even insuring a car not registered in your name, the trip has to start and end in UK.

P

I understand the start and end in UK, I assumed that so long as the trip does not normally last more than 30 days and with a limit to total days outside UK over the calendar year, the cover is fine, not that you had to book an out and return at the same time.

Peter


Title: Re: Personal Imports
Post by: Parisien on 17 June, 2014, 11:11:11 PM
http://www.aci.it/i-servizi/guide-utili/guida-pratiche-auto/esportazione.html

Still negotiating.........biggest issue is the car being exported and being de-registered, issued with temporary export plates /insurance for a Berlusconi-eque amount of money!

I will read the above link when I'm awake!




P