Lancia Motor Club

General => General Chat => Topic started by: Justin McArdle on 05 September, 2014, 06:34:47 PM



Title: Think Bike
Post by: Justin McArdle on 05 September, 2014, 06:34:47 PM
I know that a number of us have motorbikes. This is a chastening video which is self-explanatory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq2xStb0R-c


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: fay66 on 06 September, 2014, 10:56:58 PM
I'd seen the edited version of this the other day, and while I no longer ride bikes it seems that so many bikers these days take unnecessary risks, and have an attitude that speed limits and the rules of the road don't apply to them, but as much as I feel sorry for his family, it wasn't a case of if this accident would happen, but when.
supposedly the accident happened at 90 mph, if so his riding was suicidal, at that speed I doubt the driver of the car saw him coming, but even that doesn't excuse his failure to ensure the road was completely clear before he moved.

Brian
8227


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: stanley sweet on 08 September, 2014, 09:27:20 AM
I didn't watch it all - couldn't bear seeing what might happen but as Brian said, saw enough to know it was going to happen one day. This isn't the way a serious bike rider gets around, leaving a gap of six inches between yourself and the car you're overtaking. I'm sure we all know bike enthusiasts who have ridden safely all their lives. They anticipate, like most good drivers, that another road user might do something completely unexpected.


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: Justin McArdle on 08 September, 2014, 12:02:38 PM
I must admit that he took off rather rapidly from the start and certainly drove in a manner which I personally would not entertain. I am and remain scared of having an accident and try my best to ride in the safest manner possible. Defensive driving is a must on our roads. I would also add that in this incident it was a car turning right across his path but it could easily have been a car turning out left onto the road which would not have been able to see the motorcyclist as he would have been obscured by the car which he was overtaking. We all make mistakes whilst driving but those mistakes are amplified by increased speed and lack of awareness. I believe that it was a brave and correct decision by the family to release the video; it is a graphic illustration of what can go wrong.


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: frankxhv773t on 08 September, 2014, 08:37:39 PM
I watched this through in freeze frame and would agree with those who say the victim was as much at fault as the car driver. From the car driver's point of view as he approached the junction he will have checked ahead and seen a big safe gap to the oncoming car and then turned his attention to the road he was turning into. The motorcyclist had no reason to be riding at that speed, unnecessarily squeezed past far too close to the car he was following despite having the entire width of two lanes to manoeuvre in and ignored the hatching on the road to warn him of the potential hazard ahead. There would have been signposts warning of the junction too. However the car driver drove into the accident in slow motion with the bike in clear view for about five seconds which is enough thinking and reaction time to stop. That last glance up the road before pulling across the carriageway is what would have made all the difference.

My brother and my eldest son are both bikers. It matters very much to me that we car drivers think bike. Sometimes they need saving from us and sometimes they need saving from themselves but it only takes a bit of awareness to save a life.


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: bobhenry999 on 09 September, 2014, 09:50:17 PM
That is a chilling video.

I spent many years in the London Fire Brigade and saw the consequences of this sort of accident too many times. Additionally, I came across a similar accident 2 years ago out here in the lanes around Colchester, from which the young lad didn`t survive, despite my attempts to resuscitate him along with the paramedics when they arrived.

My wife who was with me at the time was horrified at the scene, and even now thinks of it every time she hears a bike being screamed along at high speed.

I ride bikes myself so I know both sides of the coin. It is true that some ride too fast, which sadly appears to be the case here, but car drivers don`t think about bikes as we riders do. Most car drivers don`t realise the speeds at which modern bikes accelerate, and so may think that they have time to cross a junction, when they don`t.

Perhaps it`s time that more specific motorcycle awareness is included in the driving test, as defensive riding regarding motorists IS included in the bike test.

Bob


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: Zagato on 10 September, 2014, 09:31:09 PM
The Police are trying to help reduce accidents ... by offering bikers an awareness course

http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/

People I know who have taken the course say it is well worth doing

The only other (safer) alternative for excessive speed is Track Days ....


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: neil-yaj396 on 11 September, 2014, 06:06:18 AM
I was pretty shocked when I watched this the other day. The two questions that came to mind were; did he have his headlight on and just how fast was he going? Certainly so fast that the black Clio seems to come from nowhere. I presume he did see it, and that should have been a massive warning to hit the brakes. When I see cars poised like that on my pushbike I slow down. You can never be certain that they have seen you.


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: neil-yaj396 on 11 September, 2014, 06:07:43 AM
I was pretty shocked when I watched this the other day. The two questions that came to mind were; did he have his headlight on and just how fast was he going? Certainly so fast that the black Clio seems to come from nowhere. I presume he did see it, and that should have been a massive warning to hit the brakes and get right over to the left. When I see cars poised like that on my pushbike I slow down. You can never be certain that they have seen you.


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: the.cern on 11 September, 2014, 08:20:26 AM
Neil, the report I saw on TV re the accident stated that he was travelling at 97mph. The speed limit on that road would have been 60mph or possibly lower. This, in round figures, is the equivalent of doing 50 in a 30 limit or 115 on a motorway.

I think that no-one would find any of those speeds acceptable or justifiable.

I just feel very sorry for those he left behind.

                        Andy


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: Justin McArdle on 11 September, 2014, 09:14:12 AM
Motorbike headlights are always on. I agree with others that the 97 mph speed was the major contributing factor of this tragedy. I understand that the car driver admitted that not only had they not seen the bike but they also hadn't seen the following car - which is a bit worrying.
I attended a BikeSafe course some years ago and cannot praise them highly enough. They are run by serving Police motorcyclists. One of the many aspects covered was how a bike can become invisible if in front of another vehicle when the motorbike headlight merges with one the the other vehicles headlights (typically a bus or a truck). In fact, they discussed a local incident where a bike was killed when a car pulled out across him. The photos showed the usual scenario and fault seemed clearly to lie with the car driver until it was pointed out that the bike's speed at point of impact was 87mph.


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: stanley sweet on 11 September, 2014, 11:10:51 AM
Just had a look at the tachymetre on my watch. At that speed a mile is covered in 36 seconds. So although both are at fault, you have to bear in mind that just 9 seconds before the motorist turns he was still a quarter of a mile away.


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: fay66 on 12 September, 2014, 10:27:54 AM
Motorbike headlights are always on. I agree with others that the 97 mph speed was the major contributing factor of this tragedy. I understand that the car driver admitted that not only had they not seen the bike but they also hadn't seen the following car - which is a bit worrying.
I attended a BikeSafe course some years ago and cannot praise them highly enough. They are run by serving Police motorcyclists. One of the many aspects covered was how a bike can become invisible if in front of another vehicle when the motorbike headlight merges with one the the other vehicles headlights (typically a bus or a truck). In fact, they discussed a local incident where a bike was killed when a car pulled out across him. The photos showed the usual scenario and fault seemed clearly to lie with the car driver until it was pointed out that the bike's speed at point of impact was 87mph.

This won't be helped by what appears to be the current attitude of the Police in ignoring vehicles with one headlamp working, I wrote to Bedfordshire's Chief Constable, the Transport Minister & my local MP 18 months ago about this, but  I received was a typical 'Sod Off letter in return from a minion of the Chief Constable, although not couched in those terms, a snotty reply from the Transport Ministry telling me it was nothing to do with them and that they were sure the Chief Constable of Bedfordshire was dealing with the matter.
And a great silence from my MP.
There hasn't been any improvement since then and the problem is getting much worse, as more drivers (Suicidal Morons?) seem to be indulging in the practice, knowing no doubt that they aren't liable to be prosecuted.
Often in a 6 mile journey on the A6 to Luton I see at least a dozen vehicles with a headlamp out and that's only the ones coming in the opposite direction, I hate to think what the scale of the problem is Countrywide; and don't even get me started on tail lamps and brake lights >:(

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: Justin McArdle on 12 September, 2014, 01:54:15 PM
... or car drivers with 100% tinted front side windows - a deliberate offence ignored by the police.Visibility and eye contact  are essential for bike riders - we need to see that drivers are aware of our presence and have seen us. Can never understand why the police appear to see this as a minor matter when it can have significant and fatal consequences.


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: stanley sweet on 12 September, 2014, 11:19:57 PM
As long as they have their cameras slowing people down for 40 feet then all is right with the world.


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: Dilambdaman on 26 September, 2014, 08:48:20 AM
I reckon I'm pretty good at observing speed limits but through lack of concentration was picked up by a camera doing 37mph in a 30mph zone recently. I was very angry with myself as I drive through that camera four or five times every week!

I opted to take a Speed Awareness Course at 85 rather than the 100 fine and 3 points. All I can say is that having approached the course with some skepticism it has change my mode of driving significantly. It should be compulsory for all drivers/bikers.;D

How about this: 25 of us on the course and when asked what we were focused on when driving in a line of traffic we all said 'the car in front'. Mistake! Lift your eyes up, you will still see the car in front but won't miss road signs and potential hazards that are coming up. Try it, I did and was amazed at the signs I spotted (close to home) that had never registered with me before.

Robin.

 


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: Parisien on 26 September, 2014, 09:51:56 AM
I always imagine myself as a WWII fighter pilot when out driving, bandits coming at you from every angle in every possible and unpredictable way


P


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: stanley sweet on 26 September, 2014, 06:36:31 PM
Beware the Mercedes in the sun!


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: the.cern on 26 September, 2014, 07:20:57 PM
I always imagine myself as a WWII fighter pilot when out driving, bandits coming at you from every angle in every possible and unpredictable way


P

I did not know that you had seen me driving .......

However, sometimes no matter how observant you are you can get caught. My daughter-in-law, 36 weeks pregnant was driving her Galaxy which was hit by a Focus which was driven straight over a stop sign and hit her square on the B pillar. Witnesses said they were sure her car was going to roll over!!!  Fortunately mother and baby are 100% OK, but there were some worrying moments. Thank goodness for airbags!!!!

                                 Andy


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: frankxhv773t on 26 September, 2014, 08:01:05 PM
You do need to keep your awareness up even on local journeys. My wife has been caught in two different locations driving on roads she has been using all her life because she didn't notice that the decades old 40 limit had been dropped to 30 for a few hundred yards.

I have no such excuse for when I have been caught. Just not paying enough attention.

Frank


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: Dilambdaman on 26 September, 2014, 09:50:53 PM
On a route of 20 miles I travel regularly the speed limit changes 16 times!

C O A S T

Concentration

Observation

Anticipation

Space

Time



Robin.


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: JohnMillham on 27 September, 2014, 09:06:23 AM
I've done the awareness course a couple of times and am due to do it again in a couple of years' time! I enjoyed it and agree that everyone should do it. About once every three and a bit years is about right. It certainly makes you a better driver, if only for a while.
Regards, John


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: Parisien on 27 September, 2014, 11:03:10 AM
Beware the Mercedes in the sun!

Could have sworn they were Messerschmitts............;)


P


Title: Re: Think Bike
Post by: Parisien on 27 September, 2014, 11:04:50 AM
I always assume, no-one else on the road has passed their tests....and this is their first time out on the road.....OTT or........;)


P