Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: kernow on 19 November, 2012, 02:43:27 PM



Title: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: kernow on 19 November, 2012, 02:43:27 PM
Hi All,

Nice day here Saturday so broke out the FSZ and had a great day out. Going to put the car away I tried to start the engine and nothing. The starter solenoid occasionally clicks and doesn't work but only once in a while and then engages on second go, so I assumed some sort of solenoid issue or a short as the engine was warm. First stop, give the solenoid a little encouragement with the mallet. What kind of weird contortionism is needed to get the air-box cover off?

After being able to reach the starter properly and giving it a tap - started fine. But investigating the wiring around the starter threw up the fact that the wire from the starter to the fan via the inline fuse had no fuse. Upon putting a fuse in there was a loud crackling and the fuse shorted out.

So, is there a likely culprit of the shorting fuse? Obviously was an issue before as the previous owner/garage has taken the fuse out! Could it be the fan thermostat?

Also, how big a job is swapping out the starter / solenoid?

Cheers

Chris

 


Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: Neil on 19 November, 2012, 03:07:19 PM
Chris, a Bosch starter motor I suspect, I has similar problems many year ago, a tap on the solenoid whilst a passenger turned the key is a bit of a fiddle, I had the starter overhauled in the end, I had a new solenoid as some point that was not 100% reliable either. 

Not sure about the inline fuse, I will look at the wiring diagram, is there a relay in that circuit?



Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: lancialulu on 19 November, 2012, 03:25:54 PM
The fuse is to supply the fan which is switched to earth by the rad thermoswitch which switches the earth by a relay under the wing.

To short to earth requires a dead short in the fan.

Re starter solenoid I have taken to bits both Ducelier and Bosch starter/solenoids. Best done a combined job. If you have an old spare you can generally make a good one replacing all worn parts.

I have to take my air horn compressor out to get my air box outer of. Yes it is a bl**dy nuisance esp when you want to do a simple job like balancing the carbs.


Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: kernow on 19 November, 2012, 04:23:26 PM
Ah, thanks guys - that does sound like there's a short to earth in the fan and rather than fix it they just took the fuse out.

How easy is it getting the starter off? Is it pretty straight forward - any tricks of the trade? Space isn't exactly plentiful inside the engine bay. It took me ages to find an angle where I could get the air box cover off without it fouling on something or other. Is space tighter on the Sport than Coupe?

Cheers

Chris


Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: Neil on 19 November, 2012, 08:57:13 PM
I have a large electrical flow diagram for the Fulvia S2/3, I have managed to scan a small part which shows the wiring for the fan and solenoid, I hope it is of some use.


Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: lancialulu on 19 November, 2012, 09:33:24 PM
Ah, thanks guys - that does sound like there's a short to earth in the fan and rather than fix it they just took the fuse out.

How easy is it getting the starter off? Is it pretty straight forward - any tricks of the trade? Space isn't exactly plentiful inside the engine bay. It took me ages to find an angle where I could get the air box cover off without it fouling on something or other. Is space tighter on the Sport than Coupe?

Cheers

Chris

Starter - disconnect the battery first!! then the electrical connections and then the 2 bolts/nuts holding the starter motor to the bell housing - withdraw....

More space in a coupe for the air box.

Tim


Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: roddy on 19 November, 2012, 11:41:47 PM
Hello Chris

I think your recently obtained Fulvia Sport is a Series 1.5?  If so, then the side opening bonnet is like the S1, and on the S1 Sport there is a short stay (about 5" long) that goes between the front hinge of the bonnet and the chassis leg.  It is held in place by two 6mm set-screws.  In order to get the outer half of the air-cleaner box off and out of the engine bay, you need to remove this stay completely.  Leaving it in place prevents the trumpet part of the cleaner box having sufficient clearance to allow full removal.  Also as the end of the trumpet is very close to the bulb holder of the r/h headlamp, it is wise to check after refitting that the electric connections to the headlamp are intact.

Regards - Roddy


Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: lancialulu on 20 November, 2012, 07:51:11 AM
Also as the end of the trumpet is very close to the bulb holder of the r/h headlamp, it is wise to check after refitting that the electric connections to the headlamp are intact.

Yes it is true on my later sport I have occasionally found I had a cyclops car!! Also 1600 sports engines are slightly higher with the head pushed further towards the right further aggravating the problem of removal.

Tim


Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: kernow on 20 November, 2012, 01:57:43 PM
Hi Roddy,

You are right - it does foul the stay and spent about ten minutes trying to extricate the box before realising the stay needed to come out. I'll check the headlight as it did keep catching...

Cheers

Chris


Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: ColinMarr on 24 November, 2012, 05:53:39 PM
My Zagato is an early S1 car with sideways opening bonnet and a 1600 engine taking up most of the available space. I must have had that air-box off and on a thousand times and it never occurred to me to think that the strut is removable! For sure at first itís a fiddle, but once you know how, itís a doddle!

I had always thought this was just another of the ways that Mr Lancia keeps you on your toes and makes you think things through. Like with my Aprilia when I first needed to adjust the fan belt tension and was delighted to discover the quick-release radiator shell to reveal an eccentric dynamo that just needed to be rotated a bit Ė lovely!

Colin


Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: kernow on 01 December, 2012, 04:09:54 PM
Am I right in thinking I have a Bosch starter motor - I've crawled under the car and can't see any id marks on it? It's a 1970 s1 1/5.

Cheers

Chris


Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: lancialulu on 01 December, 2012, 05:24:56 PM
It could be a ducellier. Bosch is slightly bigger I think. Bothe are easy to work on.


Title: Re: Electrics and starter issues
Post by: nistri on 03 December, 2012, 11:19:50 AM
And interchangeable, Andrea