Lancia Motor Club

Having decided to replace a 1925 Sunbeam with something closed and with space for family the problem was what to buy.  In Portugal the vast majority of cars on old car rallies are just that, old cars.  Little of any interest and certainly hardly any pre-war; think of political and economic history of the country.

Having had 1929 blown Alfa and then an 8th series Lambda in the past, I have a predilection for Italian machinery.

Apart from post-war Alfas there was little available here but I always had an interest in Aprilias and decided to look for one, more in hope than anger.  The only known one in the north of Portugal had been sold last year, to France I think, but the guy knew of another that had been off the road for a long time.  I am told that it had received an engine overhaul at the same time as the monocoque had been stripped and painted, painted extremely well.  First series car.  Initial registration here September 1938.

Went to see the car, on its wheels accompanied by boxes of bits, see photos taken at that time.  Checking the newspaper that was wrapping the headlight reflectors the car must have been off the road since Spring 1996.  The owner must have died shortly after this time so the guardian was not the official owner and had to engage a specialist agency to fight the system.  Bureaucracy and incredibly strange system.  Six months later the car is finally in my name.

The main car, with its mechanicals and on its wheels is with the fettler awaiting work to start in September as I cannot now do much myself.  I have all the boxes and loose bits here at the moment.  I spent a while removing pounds of fine dust and now have a better idea of what is there is and what is missing.  Meanwhile if anyone knows anything at all about driver's door lock (the part with key) please let me know.

More news as and when.

Great story and lovely car, hoping shes on the road pretty soon


P

Mic

Drivers door lock...held with big brass nut. I could get mine to work but only with a key cut to match the worn tumbler. Interestingly the boot lock was not worn and works on the original key. Hope this helps.

Congrats re paperwork , living in France I understand bureaucracy !

Look forward to progress reports and if you want more photos of anything , let me know

In case you think I have spent the last few months just waiting for all to come good with this Aprilia let me put you right.  Thank goodness for the internet and even more so for the Lancia Club.

Obviously I re-joined the club at an early stage to remake contacts.  Then there was the task of trying to work out what was missing from the car and its associated boxes.  It seems that just about all the interior fittings had disappeared and my theory is that they were all put in one box, perhaps for re-chroming, which has been lost.  Hence I spent a very long time on the computer, one of my first finds being the CD with the instruction manual and illustrated parts list for, I seem to remember, €27.  That was an excellent start, all pages printed and passed to the fettler, João. He has quite good French which is useful as the CD comes in French as well as Italian.

Then it has been chasing around for the missing goodies, including headlamp glasses.  These came from a pleasant Dutch guy in Germany but most everything else was found on EBay – or turned out to be on EBay.  Anyone trying the same route is recommended to go direct to the Italian version.  For this I have had to try to restart my Italian, which reminded me that years ago my pilot and I used to practice talking the language when on boring high altitude patrols.  I get confused easily with different languages but I am getting there.

A long trip planned in the summer turned out to become centred on Aprilias and I was actually able to see two, and drive one.  Thanks to Simon I and his wife in France and John S in Guildford.  France was the first occasion on which I had driven an Aprilia and was enough to convince me that I have made the right decision.

In England I found out why the criticism of the A14 is justified when making a visit to Omicron.

It has been very well worth while browsing the web in general to find loads and loads of photos.  These are going to be gold dust for restorer João there being no other Aprilia that we can locate anywhere near here.

And that really brings me up to date and I hope it is not too long before the next episode of the restoration of 38-6963, or TR-10-36 to its Portuguese friends.

However, I already have an Aprilia, a Brumm model in the correct colour, albeit the wartime version with the gas cylinders on the roof although these have been removed.  Meantime, for those who want to see and hear an Aprilia engine have a look at this, which seems to be Polish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e1xW82nrIQ&feature=related

I am ashamed to be so tardy in adding news but not much to report except we found many problems with the monocoque, in spite of the body having been painted by a so-called expert years ago.  I have heard this before!  Hence the slow progress.  The wings had extra parts added so these had to be removed and a lot of work done in general to the body.  These photos were taken this morning so are totally up to date.  Everything is now ready for colour, the doors and wings will be painted separately of course, all should be done this week.

The good news is that the alleged work on the engine sixteen years ago looks to be correct.  Top end looks good, valves, springs etc. OK just tappets need to be reset, no big deal. A bit of a giveaway is that the timing chain is new and the clutch has never been engaged in anger.  Bottom end being checked this afternoon.  Other mechanical items still to be checked.

Upholstery.  Removing the awful rexine type seat covering reveals the original cloth.  Have a look!  Yes, well.  I await quote as all seats and panels obviously need complete recovering.  Also awaited is the quote from the electrician as all the old wiring was removed previously.  I am staying with 6 volt, albeit with halogen headlamp bulbs.  There is no fuel tank sender for the fuel gauge, not even some bits to work on, so it looks like dipstick time.  I gather that the proper sender is not that too reliable anyway.  Incredibly complicated; what a system.  I wonder who sold it to Lancia in the first place.  More to the point who at Lancia decided to buy it.

Good progress

Petrol gauge if S2 is a delight if terribly complicated. Always a crowd puller if working....

Always a shame when info proves spurious, unreliable and costly......hoping nearly out of the woods...keep up the good work!


P

Difficult to see on your rather small images but are those 1st series wheels with the rolled rim and asymmetric well?  I bought the correct 155x400 Michelin X tyres from  http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/millimetric-classic-tyres   and have found them excellent, light and precise steering at any sort of speed and very good grip.  I know that series 1 were originally on crossply (? - Xs were introduced in 1949) but radials suit the Aprilia very well and I think the 155 are an improvement on the more usual 165 which rather overhang the sides of the wheel!  Hideously expensive of course but they seem to be lasting very well.

Here is the latest photo; beginning to look brilliant, well nice and shiny and more like a car as wings are now in place.  My visit this week showed a small hole in the lower rear of each front wing.  No idea why these are here as no other Aprilia I have seen, in real or photo, has these which may have been for wing support.  They are just in front of the sills. Tomorrow will discuss these and I think fill in.  Next phase is fitting of doors and once we get past Christmas things will move to the mechanical side.  Yes, wheels are series 1 and the tyres Michelin 140-400.  New, except they must have been fitted sixteen years ago but never used on the road.
Recently I have traced mirrors, both internal and external, which are in the post as I write.  And I have bit the bullet and ordered the fuel tank sender which will be my Christmas present to me especially as TNT say delivery on Christmas Eve.  An expensive present.
A horn is needed but several people offer those in 6 volt so easy to resolve.  More difficult  is a driver's door lock, with key, hence my recent plea for details.  I have already received offer of photos which says a lot for the Forum as well as Simon.
More news after Christmas assuming we all survive the end of the world but if anyone wants larger versions of photos just ask and give me an email address.

Christmas is long past so back to work for the restorers; wish I could do hands-on still..  Painting now finished apart from any detail, running boards are fitted - see photos - they make a great difference to the appearance of the car.  I am glad the pink blanket is not mine.  Our three year old is worried as the car does not have any wheels.

Major discussion has been over the radiator grill as the existing one would not survive acid bath prior to chrome.  I located three on the web, one is no longer available (and looked very expensive), another outfit, Parts Collector, cannot be bothered to reply (again) and the only sensible alternative looked not quite up to it. Hence yesterday the decision was made to make a new grill to fit into the existing frame which is basically OK.  Here in Portugal it is a lot easier to get detail work done than it is in England.  For instance if you want a motor rewinding there are at least three shops in the small town that will do a great job.  Yes, shops.

Since my last report the fuel tank sender arrived and has been passed over to the experts whose guy will start the wiring shortly.

Engine.  As I reported previously, several new parts had been fitted yonks ago so hopefully just needs general check and cleaning.  However the carb is not what it should be.  This is a Zenith 30 VIG-5 whereas the manual - and 'Revue Technique Automobile' - say should be Zenith 32 VIM with an alternative of Stromberg EX 22.  John Savage suggests a Zenith 36 VI5 also appropriate.  So I have just emailed two outfits in England and await their comments although one says it closed from 16th November until 27th January for holidays!  Meanwhile any comments appreciated.

The parcel of mirrors has yet to arrive and last noted in the post centre in Milano on 27th December.  One day.... 

A bonus in all this searching on the web is that I came across the book 'Falchetto, Planner and Designer' published as recently as 2011.  I immediately bought a copy and find it instructive and fascinating.  Odd in that is not listed either on Amazon or our beloved Chaters.  Recommended.  And in both Italian and English with lots of photos.

Mic...loving those pics and how you are getting on.....any chance you can email the originals as the ones on the forum don't enlarge much?


P

Looks like a lovely finish

Fantastic colour for an Aprilia - I want one now!!!

A couple of weeks since my last post.  Doors now have the chrome surrounds in place as well as the glass.  They used all the raschiavetro - the fluffy stuff that goes between glass and door - on just one side as doing the normal thing and having it only on the outside meant there was a gap on the inside.  Much better having it on both sides and feels fine, not too tight.  So today arrived another batch from Peter Harding to complete that task.

The photos show the work on the rear axle, awaiting rubber seals for brake cylinders but looking really smart and clean.  For the first time I find there is a dipstick for diff oil level rather than the usual method of shoving a finger down the hole.  Steering box is in place and I was able to see that the innards were in very good conditoin.  The engine will be mounted very soon.  Instruments are cleaned and awaiting one more little bulb for the fuel gauge so wiring should start in the not too distant future. 

After a lot of searching on the web I finally located a Zenith 32 VIM in France, not cheap but they seem to know what they are doing and already have the information on correct jets for the Aprilia although I have a note from the November 1947 edition of Revue Technique Automobile.  This carb has been paid for and I am told should be shipped end of this month.  This is the type of  Zenith originally fitted and, indeed, mentioned in the manual but the aforesaid magazine also lists a Stromberg EX 22.  In the end I had a choice of either but it seems better to keep to original.

As I write the only problem is headlamp glass.  I bought a pair of glasses some while back which seemed OK but they are very slightly too big in diameter and cannot fit properly into the rims.  It is only a question of 2 mm.  The supplier is investigating what can be done but the next size of glass down may be too small.  Watch this space.

The garage here is finally clear of anything Aprilia, the rubber mats and s.s. exhaust having been delivered this afternoon to the fettler.  Some of the space has been taken up with a 51 c.c Motom 60S, a project for Carlos in slow time.  Motom had a connection with Lancia, particularly via Falchetto although he had left to go back to Lancia well before 1960 when this model was introduced.

Yet again Mic...your industry and passion shames most of the rest of us!!

Absolutely brilliant........on home straight now, well done


P

Have a look on this thread for any useful info/links re the glass.......

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5503.0


P

Being your only talking 2mm is it not possible to have them ground down if the correct size isn't available?

Brian
8227 8)

Thanks for useful and, indeed, nice comments. If only I were doing something myself apart from write cheques!  Days of hands-on work long past.  The advantage is that it will be on the road soon, hopefully, rather than my ten years battle years ago with a 1959 250GT which told me how awful those so called exotic Ferraris were.  Great engine but suspension and body ****.

I have checked out the recommended links but can't find anything quite right for Aprilia glass but will consult the fettler on grinding a touch away.  Diameter of the new glass supplied is 19.4 cm by the way.  I await more comments from Hans at Italparts.  I'll report progress as and when.

Looking great Mic, keep writing those cheques - excellent progress ....

Far too long since my last submission but when the real work is done at a distance – well, 15 kms – it is just a case of reporting from visit to visit.  I don’t want to go over too often and get in the way.

So here is the update.

Engine, looking very pretty and ready to run.  The stainless steel exhaust system fitted absolutely perfectly.  No mod needed.

Gearbox.  A few problems here but new bearings fitted and then discovered that it was possible for two gears to be engaged at the same time.  In the past some bodger had hacked around at the back end of the box and one of the small balls had been smashed hard down into its housing thus fouling up the selectors.  However, Paulo has put that to rights but it needed some very accurate and delicate drilling to clear out the metal that had been forced in.

The rear axle is in place; see it in a few bits in an earlier posting, as well as the front end and the car was ready to sit on wheels for the first time in six months.

So then to the next major stage, to the electrician for all wiring to be put in place and I am told – not yet seen – the fuel tank sender and gauge work.  Must not get too excited.

One oddity was that at this point we found out that one hole in the facia, where the distribution panel fits, had been filled up; the top hole that houses the trafficator switch.  One wonders why.  Of course I will have flashers – pisca pisca they say here – rather than trafficators

Two days ago the car was shifted again, this time to estofador – which sounds much more interesting than upholsterer.  I am sticking to cloth and this came from Calabria, eventually.  I think it was DHL who fouled up and there was a delay of five weeks before they discovered the bolt of cloth had arrived in their Barcelona depot and never reappeared.  So a replacement bolt had to be sent although did not really delay things.

Hopefully, Easter now being over, the trim will be finished end of next week before which I hope to be able to go and inspect progress.  Did make a visit before the car was sent to this guy so have been able to see his work on other cars and brief him my wants.

There still remain a few jobs to be done back at the main workshop.  Another visit to the paint shop will be needed as I had not noticed before that there are two nice holes in the side of the car, just forward of the driver’s door.  Why?  For one of those radio antenna.  Not needed so will be filled.  Who wants a radio in an interesting car?

So I guess end of April or early May to be up and running at which point the road tests will begin so life should get really interesting when inevitably problems show up.

Lovely - but MORE photos please !!

Great progress- keep at it .....

Hi Mic, Those rear bump stops look very long, I'm sure they didn't look like that on my Aprilia...... but perhaps that was something to do with my driving!!  ;D
Ade.

You are right Ade, I think mine are pretty standard - Mic, maybe invest in a Stanley knife ?

........although with those bump stops you won't need to put the rear spring on, just tell everyone that it was the first use of rubber cone suspension........... way before Moulton!!

Rear bump stops.

Can anyone tell me some measurements please.  I can get this sorted before the car is on the road which we now hope will be end of May.  I think the delay is professionally called slippage.

At the moment the car is with the upholsterer.  The cloth came from Calabria (I think there was a TV programme last night about certain events in this area) but we had doubts as to its quality.  It is supposed to be original type of cloth.  It seemed very weak but experiment has now shown that it is stronger than it looks but needs a lining which it obviously would have had originally. 

Photos will follow when I have some worth sending but difficult at the moment.

At last an update.  The car was delayed at the electricians and stuck there while we waited for a slot at the estofador, the upholsterer.  Some worries about the thin material that came from Elvezio in Calabria and is said to be the original type of material.  However Rui the Estof played around with it and found it is really strong and, as a test, he only managed to damage a portion by making up a small cushion and spending a weekend jumping up and down and sliding over it, all of which it survived, then deliberately attacking it with a screwdriver.  He decided the material is more than good enough, although obviously it is backed with a good lining.

We decided to have carpet in the front as well as the back as you can see.  May not be original but certainly make things quieter.  Rui also made up a shelf in the boot and, surprise, surprise, I found that he had lined the glove box with carpet as well!  To save time today the car was moved back to the main workshop and will be followed by the front seats and the door pulls whilst other items are attended to.

I hope we are on the last leg.  There is a list of things to be done including taking the advice of Ade, Simon and others in cutting down the vast bump stops.  Although the wiring is fitted the varoius instruments and lights still have to be connected, the flashers etc. to be fitted to the bumpers to avoid making more holes in the body.  Locks to be fitted to driver's door and boot, windscreen and rear window glass to be fitted, various little blue plaques to be replaced - bit faded with age, like me, but they are the ones that came with the car.  Then the wheels to be aligned and brakes introduced to fluid and so on.  In other words a number of small jobs and hope that there are no major snags.

More news before too long I hope.


We are still awaiting the grill.  I am told it was made some while back but the guy who does the chriming has been off sick.  Hopefully will be there on next visit end of this week.  By then the gearbox will be back in place and I trust it will not be long before I can hear the engine! 

Please don't replace the little blue plaques.  It is a lovely restoration but that would be just a bit too Palm Beach.

Looking lovely, Mic. Some nice individual touches - is that a small shelf to the left of the battery box ?

You are very lucky to have found someone who is able to do all this, and at quite a pace !

Just back from a check on progress and photo here shows the wiring covers. The horizontal one, by the bulkhead, was missing and it has been fabricated from photos and dimensions kindly provided by Simon.  Looks very smart.  Just pushed into place at the moment to show it fits.  I know a number of cars do not have these covers but they make a big difference.

Rear window glass and surround in place and windscreen about to be mounted along with its surround.  Whilst we were there they were fitting a driver’s door lock.  Not sure where the lock comes from but one that has been adapted.

Major item is the grill which has been delivered, chromed, and will be in place shortly so watch for a photo of that.

I don't suppose anyone has a couple of those blue plaques, better than the ones in the photo?

Hi Mic
these are certainly better than mine ! (especially the bottom one) I would be tempted to clean and keep - unless of course someone has a better set ...... but they certainly seem very presentable

they are fine; it's a 70 + year old car, original features that still serve the purpose may look a bit old in my opinion.
Mechanical items need to work properly but cosmetic items with signs of age simply maintain the authenticity.(and i suspect its value.). With patience and enough resources one could manufacture the whole vehicle but i don't see the virtue in that.

Thanks for your useful and encouraging comments.  I stick with what I have then.

Fingers crossed for end of month.  Just that a year ago we promised the car for wedding of daughter of neighbour (an offer never to be repeated but they are rather special) hence a certain amount of pressure but it is always better to have some sort of definite date to aim for otherwise things tend to lag.  In any case the actual work only started last September and in that time one heck of a lot of work has been done.

Definitely the right decision in my opinion !!

Good luck meeting your deadline and I am sure the wedding transport will be a great success. More photographs please.

                                         Andy

Aprilias make excellent wedding cars (as do other pillarless saloons) because the bride can get her frock in easily - just make sure the door pegs are clean and you put a towel or similar over them !

Keep the photos coming ....

Big news - Aprilia grill.   The one that came with the car was complete but taking it anywhere near an acid bath prior to chroming the thing, it would have dissolved.  The decision was taken to make a new one, all the interior parts as the basic frame was OK.  It might not be realised how complex the grill is.  There is a basic ‘net’ in which there are extra tiny holes.  These accept ‘pins’ from the vertical, shall we call them flutes.   There are no less than twenty-eight of these, each slightly different to the others.  A major fabrication job, beautifully done.

Battery.  I had been given a Bosch number which became a Varta number here but no longer available and the task was to find one that will fit into the battery box and not be too high.  Nothing suitable available here in Portugal so back to the web to find one to fit.  Order from U.K. late morning and early afternoon it is on its way.  As soon as it arrives a top cover will be made from the photos and dimensions that Simon provided a while back. 

Oh, and the blue plaques fitted, gearbox all sorted and about to be mounted..  Back to the electrician next Tuesday to connect lights and instruments, including flashers under the bumpers where they will not be too noticeable.

Photos.  In the ‘oficina’ it is too dark and crowded to take anything decent and I cannot use flash for the grill due to reflection, so have to get what I can and then play around to improve as far as possible.  Decent photos will follow as soon as the car is in decent light to meet kind requests.  Promise.  Meanwhile these will give the main impression.

About a week to go now, they say. 

Mic, don't forget, on the grille the horizontal bars, behind the vertical ones should be painted black, this makes them less visable so you have the effect of just the vertical chromed bars.

A lovely piece of work...

Any "in progress" or detail photos?

David

Thanks for comments.  More photos as soon as I can get the car into a decent position.

Grill.  I did not appreciate that the back grill should be black and possibly it is a bit late in the day now.  What think others?

Interior door pull - can anyone send a decent photo of one of these.  Not all cars seem to have them but makes sense and none available even on EBay where the gy who advertises one has just theone, not much good. So we have to make I think.

Mic, it's just the small horizontal bars that should be black, easy enough to do with a small brush if somewhat time consuming!
Pic of Aurelia grill, but this is the same as the Aprilia. Here's a picture of an Aprilia too.

Grill - will have to wait for a while but thanks for comments.

Door pulls are, I found out from my out-of-date Italian, called Maniglie interna tiraporta.  Eventually found two sources in Italy, one guy probably has but I am fed up with waiting for his reply.  More successful with Giovanni of Vintage Italian Cars and I have found him to be reliable.  Should have gone to him first. Four  leather pulls will be in the post tomorrow he assures me.  The battery is also on its way so will be an exciting week.

Latest update.  I’ve been homologated.  They can’t touch you for it.  Well, actually it is the car that has been homologated of course, by the Portuguese old car club, the CPAA.  This gives exemption from MoT for eight years, renewable.  You get a small brass plaque to stick on the dashboard.  Normally one has to take the car into either Porto or Lisbon for inspection but the old boys’ act came into force, the member doing the inspection being an old friend of the restorer, so the guy came to the car.  And nattered, as they tend do here.  In fact he remembered the car from twenty years ago when it had been painted prior to its many years of rest.  He once had an Aprilia himself but this is now, he thinks, in Germany.

There is a check list of what should be checked and it is a more detailed check than I used to have to make for VSCC members’ cars for insurance.  The vital items are chassis and engine number and the latter is not easy to see once the engine is in place.  In fact we had to leave them to it but as the inspector knows and respects the restorer well the fact that a few items are not yet in place did not seem to matter.  I think they nattered on for another two hours after we left.

The 6 volt battery arrived safely from Wales, Tayna Ltd. of Abergele, and the door pulls are in the post from Italy, expected in a day or two.  Hopefully that should be the lot. 

The front number plate has been secured above the bumper and flasher lights underneath.  Same lights arrangement at the back but red rear lights as well as flashers.  This arrangement avoids penetrating the body, wisely not approved.  Looks very neat.

So, as of this Sunday, 2nd June, we are hopefully coming to the time when the car will be soon collected and enjoyed.  Watch this spaced for photos as these are also required for the club ‘passport’ for the car and will be taken as soon as we have the car out and in a reasonably photogenic place.

Well done on the homologation - a major hurdle overcome ....

The Portuguese bureaucracy seems worse than that of the French - here, so long as we can "acquire" the correct (and significant number of) pieces of paperwork, then everyone is happy and they can tick the boxes.

Seems bizarre that you have to get a 6v battery from Wales !

On the road!  Just for a couple of days and only because much more than a year ago we had promised our neighbour an old car for their daughter’s wedding.  When the 1925 Sunbeam was sold we had to think again.  But we have made it with the Aprilia with a day to spare, well, less than a day, fifteen hours actually.  Just for the occasion.  Only in the last few days has the Aprilia been ready to run on its wheels and so on to road testing to find out what needs still to be done.  Hence this was an opportunity for me to drive her before handing back to the experts.

Last week saw the last predicted jobs, most of them small but including the cutting down to size of the bump stops on the advice of Aprilia experts here on the Forum.  I mentioned before that the battery sent out from Wales is perfect and I can give the details to anyone who wants as it sits perfectly in the locker and now has a cover, made here thanks to excellent photos and dimensions from Simon.

So it was really a week of minor assembly of external items but with the odd hitch such as key for the boot lock.  Local locksmiths could not help but the lock is of the type lockable with a screwdriver, as were many ignition keys for pre-war cars.  So Serafim found a piece of metal, in five minutes had it in some sort of shape and smartened it up so we now have a boot key as good as the original.

A real last minute saga came up when on reflection, they were not happy with a slight noise from the valve gear and thought they could do better.  So the rocker shafts were rapidly removed and taken over for regrinding and heat treatment of the tappet faces.  The revised pieces were due back later on Thursday and re-assembled after dinner!  They worked until well gone 1.30 a.m. and the motor, hardly noisy before, is now really quiet. 

At last came the time to really run the engine and get the car moving to show any problems not able to be noticed when stationary in the workshop.  The fettler in chief is most impressed with the way she pulls, even when not totally warm.

Initial problem - oil pressure is a bit odd, although fine when run in the workshop.  On start up needle goes almost to max and then settles down to centre of the gauge but when on the road it gradually drops too far towards the left.  This is now being investigated along with a few other problems, not least of which is a replacement water pump as the original proved somewhat leaky.  Ordered from Enrico in Torino on Friday after lunch, posted same day and arrived today, Wednesday morning.

Wheels now show their time standing stationary for twenty years so will be taken for sorting as at the moment there is a slight thump thump. Sounds rather like a wheel bearing gone but it is the wheels.

Look at the photos.  I hope the arrangements for the small front and rear lights meet with approval.  Here it is important not to make extra holes in the wings.  Not much choice of where to put the number plate.  Anyone requiring a better size photo needs only to ask and I can email individually.

Meantime more news as soon as there is more to report but where is it recommended to fix a fire extinguisher in an Aprilia?  Polite answers only, please.

And two more photos.

As I said in my email - she looks wonderful !

Well done, now you just need to use her everyday for a month to iron out the niggles and get used to her ......

Wheels should be back and round by now, yet another bank holiday got in the way.  Meantime here is what you get from the Portuguese old car club (old car rather than vintage or PVT) which clears you of any MoT for a few years.

Thermometer.  I know the Aprilia did not normally have one of these but always a good idea and can get a bit hot here at times.  One hundred last week!  Although this is not normal in the north.  Too hot for small motoring dog.

So I have purchased a nice Metron gauge with a bracket but not sure where the sensor should fit into the radiator and I cannot look right now as obviously car is not with me and the workshop is closed for the weekend.  Any advice much appreciated or even a photo.

Generally there has been a delay in sorting out the wheels as until the car could be driven it was not clear that they needed trueing up.  The work has been done in Braga and wheels are at last back with the fettler for repainting.    I go to check again on Monday.

I have tucked mine into the header tank on the right.  There is not a lot of room with the distribution pipe in the way.

Thank you, David. Just what I wanted to know.  The Metron thermometer is really a nice piece of kit. I only hope it works as good as it looks.

the take off for my temperatuage gauge is on the thermostaat housing just above the heater outlet.Gives maybe slightly different info but there is not much space to fit something.Header tank is more common i think but wherever you place it you just need to learn what is normal and then reconise when there are variations.

William, is the brass bit on your thermostat housing new or re-machined - it looks perfect ..... mine is now clean and shiny but much more worn and rounded !

Much obliged, folks.  Now, not having had the car in house for a year, apart from one night, I am really not sure if there is a thermostat, which is poor admittance.  Anyway, I go to see tomorrow, with the thermometer and can get things sorted.  Meanwhile photo printed out to take along.

the whole unit(housing and screw top) is made new from scratch using the old as a pattern, the old was beyond repair.

At last!  Aprilia TR-10-36 is here and on the road after almost a year of excellent work, regrettably not by the hands of this old and decrepit ***.  It was collected yesterday evening and now we need to drive round to show up any problems to be sorted.  Currently in the garage and under the cover I had for the Sunbeam, which is a bit vast and there is room for both Aprilia and a tent I think.

I drove back from the workshop and godson Carlos then took his wife for a short spin on the nearby by-pass to give a real run.  He says he got to 110 but I have no idea how accurate the speedo is.  I will tell him to take it a bit easier!

The car drives really well and I continue to be amazed at the gearbox, how quick and easy are the changes both up and down. 

Suspension seems OK.  Our roads are a bit duff, especially the minor ones, with more holes by the day but we also have what they call parallelo, cobbles or pavé to us.    Will take it easy over these and also take a slightly roundabout route from here into town as here the terrain is very steep and to join the main road entails a major hill start, not kind to the clutch.  In any case it can take ages to find a break in the traffic; two minutes this morning, fortunately in the ‘modern, ‘just waiting for a gap.

Oil pressure goes up to max on starting but drops only to the left of the centre section when warm.  Fettler is keen on Metalube and has added it to Carlos’s Megane and another car but not yet to the Aprilia.  Any ideas or opinions on this?   It’s new to me.

The wheel worries that were holding things up turned out to be balancing.  They were not satisfied with what they could achieve but I have yet to do a drive on a smooth, fastish road to form an opinion but from my drive yesterday does not appear to be a major problem.

More news as and when and I promise some more photos when I can find a more scenic location than a car park field.  Meanwhile have a look at the first entries on this topic to get an idea of where we started and how much needed to be done.

Wonderful news Mic.......hoping shes everything you hoped for, do put up a few pics and keep us up to speed how she runs over the coming months


P

Oil pressure sounds fine to me - what oil are you using?   I use a semi-synthetic 10-40 in mine and see no need for additives.   Pressure goes up with engine speed of course but drops to under 1/2 way on tick-over when she is hot.  At speed it is usually well to the right of centre (unlike its owner!).

Oil is 20/50. 

So last evening we went to the club dinner and were able to see that the pressure seems fine.  As you say, oil pressure on start goes to maximum and at idle drops to centre of the middle sector when cold and then drops left but nothing too severe, just to left hand edge of middle sector of the gauge, as she warms up. A few days ago fettler João checked using another gauge and was getting reading of 1.8 kg/cm. so I guess these original gauges are not all that great.  To save you folks looking it up that is 25 p.s.i.  Water temp normal.

Of course I am discovering a few odd things to be done, one door lock not effective, instrument lights only partly functioning and we need to check the headlights (I have stayed with 6 volt) although not easy to really see how effective the beams are last night as all the roads en route are brightly lit, except one or two lights that are off because of 'austerity.'  Like just across the road.  Thanks Merkel.

More news as we progress.

You know the lights are bad when you can see your car's shadow where the headlights are pointed.  All the more so when the shadow is street lights not from some modern car with light output beyond the pain threshold. 

With modern use lights are so much less important than when it was new.  Roads are bigger and better lit and markings and signs are better and - if you were in a screaming rush to get somewhere - you'd be in another car anyway.

An idea for you - better bulbs.  Depends if you like the warm glow of a curly hot wire.  A friend ran a 50 year old car though last winter with a poor battery and no charging and would rather charge it every night (street parked so battery out and indoors) than give in to LED tail lights and so on.  This site lists some of the temptations he wouldn't give into - there's lots more like it.

http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/

Have fun !!

David

As written last time our first public ‘showing’ was last Friday at the club’s monthly dinner at a typical Portuguese restaurant but only about 15 kms away.    All went well and the return meant using the lights for the first time.  As I mentioned before I decided to stay with 6 volts but fit halogen 6v bulbs.  As good as it gets with 6 volt I guess.

Whilst on electrics, there are two little items hidden in the glove box, one being a rather superior battery master switch and the other a connection to which I can click in a battery charger/conditioner without even opening the bonnet.  Have to keep a window open for the cable of course!  Why in the glove box?  Direct and short feed from the battery of course.

Very comfortable car.  The seats had to be completely remade, having arrived with only the very bare frames.  Seat adjustment (mechanism had to be fabricated here largely by guess) could be better and as I am short the seat has to be way forward and best left there which makes getting in a trifle tight.  The engine starts rapidly and I commented last time on the oil pressure.  I am not sure if the distributor is original or not but doubt it. Anyway, there is now a hand control to retard for starting but this can be rapidly pushed in as soon as she fires.

As I write the car is having a couple of minor items and small leaks seen to but a real check over will happen after 300 kms or so.  The only thing we will have to live with is the wheels which I now understand are way beyond balancing.  OK at normal town speeds and only godson has so far been on a reasonable road and gone fast enough to experience wobble.  Wheels are probably knackered over the many years on Portuguese roads which are questionable now but were quite dreadful until the 1980s.  It pays to watch the cars in front. When they swerve you swerve too as this is generally to avoid a particularly bad hole.  It does not help that many minor roads are tarmac on top of cobbles.  That does not work too well.  Or last to long. Anyway, if anyone knows of four Aprilia wheels you know where I am.

I had hoped to have a photo session last week-end so of course it rained.  Hopefully this forthcoming one.

This is a good opportunity for me to really thank all who have read this post on the Forum and assisted in so many ways, Peter Harding for instance and in particular Simon for lots of photos and measurements which, for instance, have allowed the fabrication of cable covers and battery top. Having those items correct makes that extra difference.  And of course Aprilia guru John Savage, who has been a real godsend and very tolerant of my phone calls, he not being with computer.

Photos next time, I promise!  And we have already been asked to loan the car for the major Portuguese old car exhibition in October in Porto, or Oporto to you.

Hi there Mic
                I have been following your progress with interest and would congratulate you on getting the Aprilia back on the road and looking so good.
                Regarding the wheels you are fortunate to have the original rolled rim variety as in the UK they nearly all have rusted away.
                It is worth persisting with the balance issue as from my experience some tyre suppliers are better than others when it comes to dealing with this type of wheel. My local man told me my wheels were too far out for his machine to cope with but I have subsequently balanced them myself to a perfectly satisfactory level.
                 I have done this using lead strips cut from roofing sheet attached with double sided tape by trial and error until the wheel in question when jacked up on a nice free running hub (ie front rather than rear) will not show any bias. By that I mean that the wheel will remain in any angular position you set it to. Clearly when you start off if the wheel is seriously unbalanced the heavy spot will always go to the lowest position so you correct by adding the lead to the opposite diametral position,ie the top.When you have got it right you can then reposition half of the lead  onto the inside rim to minimise the chance of out-of-balance couples.
                 Doing the rear wheels on the front hubs like this is ok because the car will not be particularly sensitive to the state of the rear wheels so errors due to moving the wheels will not be significant.
                 For the front wheels it is best to do each one on its own hub and also mark them so that if you need to take them off for any reason you can refit them in the same position.

                 If you find that steering wobble persists even after balancing as described you need to check the state of the rubber bushes in the steering joints. If these are not in good condition steering wobble is almost inevitable,and they are notorious for wearing out.

Thanks for those comments, Ben.  Much appreciated and I'll talk to Fettler Joáão when they open again after hols.  I remember doing the wheels myself on my Alfa years and years ago.  My trouble is getting down to the wheels nowadays and then getting back up again!  I see Amazon have Self Adhesive Wheel Balance Weights 5g and 10g in strips of 100 box (600g total) but may need ten boxes per wheel.  I wonder what they are made of as I read somewhere recently that lead is banned for wheel weights. Or is that only in the U.S.A. I have no idea what any alternative could be.

I think we have to sort the rims out before getting into balancing and J is, I know, thinking of nothing else on his holiday.

Now I really must get down to posting the recent photos.  I owe it to the superb Forum and those who have shown interest and help.  Photos are good job to do quietly as they say it will go to 34-35 degrees for the next few days.  And, I emphasise, this is not the ruddy Algarve.

Photos from eight days ago en route back home.  Shots of interior and engine etc. are on earlier posts but if anyone wants something specific please ask.

Lovely pictures, Mic.  Do you know if your car was originally sold in Portugal?  The bumpers (which suit the car very well, in my opinion) look very similar to the ones on my '37 car which I bought from Portugal.  My car is 38-1427.

Very interesting, William.  So I have the modern version as mine is chassis 38-6963 and engine 8368!  Not sure if the chassis numbers ran totally in sequence but assume so, in which case there are 5536 numbers between our cars which surprises me.  Does anyone know if this fairly high production rate is correct?  Registered here TR-10-36 and first registered  21.9.38.  When was yours? 

I bought the car off a Sr. Ramos who had been guardian of it for twenty years after the owner died.  At that stage the car had been totally stripped and repainted, engine and axles were in place and the car just sat waiting for love.  So the first problem was getting it into Ramos's name rather than the official, deceased owner's name and that took six months.  Getting it from Ramos to Comber was more or less instant.  A hell of a lot needed to be done as you can see from some of the earlier photos although they don't show the actual state which was, no surprise, worse than it seemed.   Find the photo of an original seat for a laugh.

Work started last September so eleven months.

Bumpers.  We had to remake bumpers as the ones with the car were really tatty, I assume not the originals although may be I am wrong, so the ones you see are new.  Maybe they should have the rubber inserts but we have not bothered, can't do everything, expensive enough as it was - what do you have?  And are they original to your car or made later?

A lot of smaller items had gone missing and I guess a box of goodies had been lost at the plater so all the handles etc. had to be sourced which was my part of the work.  I even splashed out on the fuel tank sender which, so far, works.  The electrician had fun sorting that out.

Where in Portugal did your car come from?  I am north of Porto, in the Minho.  History?  When did you buy yours?  There was one other in Porto itself which was sold a couple of years ago and, I think, went to France.  A dealer, name escapes me at the moment, but he put us onto this car and was doing a favour to Ramos.

There is one Aprilia, perhaps two, known in the Lisbon area but none in the north of the country which meant Fettler João had no example to help him although he did make one trip south.  As the car will be on the Fettler's stand at the Autoclássico in Porto show in October it will be interesting to see if there are comments from visitors.

Anyway, any questions, just ask.  Meantime would appreciate any photos of your car.  I am not sure where you are as the Database is doing odd things at the moment so I cannot look out for you.

Hi Mic,

I'll have to look up where in Portugal the car was (I bought it in March 2009, via eBay), but I think it was near Porto.

According to the registration card which I have, the car was first registered on the 26th July 1937 (could be June) as BE-10-14.

The chassis number 1427 means it is the 427th car produced and from memory I think the first series cars (238) numbered about 7,700 in total.  All made pre-war.

Ben (who's also commented on this thread) had a look at the car recently and was of the opinion that the bumpers might be original.  I understand that UK cars had (always, mainly?) different bumpers fitted by Lancia England at Alperton.  Local changes were possibly to avoid import duty or perhaps to adapt the cars to local taste (leather upholstery rather than cloth).  Perhaps the same dynamics applied in Portugal...  It would be interesting to compare the mounting/fixing irons on your bumpers to mine.  I'll take some photos.

Here are a couple of photos of my car as seen in Portugal on the eBay listing I bought it from.  Some non-original things are obvious - wheels not disk or rolled-rim; running boards (but your car also has them); central light on bootlid(?).

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qKVgHayTYwA/Ugpf67YjfNI/AAAAAAAAD5c/DQoyfDTD1So/s640/41d9_3.JPG)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-q5u_pCO6HOk/Ugpf93kDRmI/AAAAAAAAD5k/xP0qImvU8Tc/s640/4dd7_3.JPG)

Ah, very interesting.  I have not heard of this car.  Just one that was sold I think two years ago by dealer in Porto.  I will ask questions to see if anyone recognises your car but be a coupe of weeks as the last two weeks of August seem to be the most popular time to shove off to the Algarve and knowledgeable contacts are away.  Do you have a name of the last owner?

Rear light.  Yes, I see what you mean  That is, I think, a series 2 light.  You can see what I have in the photos.  I believe most Aprilias of that time had just one reflector but mine came with two so we use them both and that leaves the rear and brake lights above the number plate.  Although you will see small lights under the bumpers as locally they don't like one to pierce the body for extra lights.

Those bumpers.  So you also do not have the rubber inserts, which makes me feel better.  The mounting irons came with the car and have been used, yes, will be interesting to see how similar or different they are.

Now I realise  your car is 1937 and not 1938 that makes the production figures more sensible so about 5500 in fifteen months but that is still more than 300 per month.  I do not have any books on this aspect but perhaps someone out there does.

Here are the production numbers for Aprilias.
Noel

Ask on the Forum and it shall be given to you.  Thanks so much for the production figures, Noel.  Saved for future reference.

Mic

Clutch judder.  People tell me that this is more or less endemic to the Aprilia and certainly we had a bad case of the judders.  Fettler João had a major think and may have come up with the solution. 

He has done two things.  One is a different thrust bearing, I am told very slightly larger than the standard by about 1.5 mm.  I am no engineer so more detail there is not, except the part number is 14-00T250.  As the box it came in has been discarded I await the name of the manufacturer so keep an eye on the Forum.

Next was more major.   Thanks to more patience and photos from Simon the drive shafts have been identified as original and not a Hardy Spicer mod.  Look at the universal joint and the ‘cross’.  There are, of course, four bearing caps and inside each one was a small bronze bush.  They have replaced these worn bushes with roller bearings NBS NA 4903.  Obviously you need sixteen.  Has anyone else tried this type of solution?

There is now absolutely no judder at all. It is a different car.  We wait and see if this is a long lasting solution.

Now one step forward and ……  The car went off on a trip to Aveiro, about 100 km from here.  Did not quite make it.  Lot of smoke, steam and whatever.  I did not go, the  driver was Carlos and, fortunately, had fettler João with him.  Came back in taxis and trailers.  Not good news and extremely embarrassing for João.

You have probably guessed by now, blown cylinder head gasket, evident when I saw it yesterday.  Really inexcusable as even I have never refitted a gasket, always a new one.  When I saw the block with the head off, well, load of crud even after initial cleaning; ah well, these things happen and J takes full blame and says never trust anyone, do it himself.  Certainly not typical of their work.

At the moment the car is, obviously, back at the oficina and the first thing is to obtain a new gasket.    These are available on EBay in the copper form, one priced at €200 and another – I kid you not – he wants €500.   Old Lancia Spares has a version for €200 inc. postage, this being in what I knew as Klingerite which I think is preferable and I used on my blown Alfa with great success, ne’er a problem.  However, both these versions can be made here, the copper variety in Braga (north of Porto) and the Klingerite type in Lisboa.  About €100.  So I obviously opt for the latter and delivery should be about a week.

Lot of rain here at the moment so a good time to have problems as not the best weather in which to enjoy any car.

Well done with that drive shaft modification - and my sympathies and best wishes with the engine.

David

Back reporting at last.  Apologies for the delay.  Other things kept me busy.

Right where were we?  Ah yes, looking for a head gasket. After some discussion decided to use copper gasket rather than ‘Klingerite’ type, the former being more suited to the engine design.  Made locally, well, in Portugal, 110 Euros or so.  Engine cleaned out, re-assembled and runs beautifully.

This left us with the problem that the original series one wheels have rolled rims which deform over time.  Very obvious how out of true they were when following the car, not to say alarming.  Hence hunt on for a set of series two wheels and the dealer in Switzerland once again ignores our request to buy what he offers for sale.  Very strange man.  We did talk to him on his mobile once when he said he was away from the office but since then nothing.   I went on holiday and came back to find that a set of five had been on eBay and sold. Bother, as Pooh bear would say.  Well, I said more than that.

Then I discover that they had been bought by Simon who thought I would like them but would have kept them if not.  Incredibly kind and thoughtful.  Nice people Lancia owners.  Getting them from him in France to me in Portugal became a saga as TNT let us down and did not seem to know what they were doing.  UPS are expensive but perfect service and five Fergat wheels eventually arrived at the front gate and within an hour were on their way to the fettler.  Interesting to note that wheels of both series one and two type were made by Fergat, then in Torino. Still seem to exist as part of a group.

Very slight attention was needed to a couple of wheels to correct very small imperfections and also to allow the use of the hub caps we already had due to small difference between the series wheels.   As I already had four as-new Michelin 140-40 tyres we have retained these.

What a difference!  No more wheel wobble on square wheels.  Now you don’t realise how well the car is going.  Although we are trying to keep to 90 km.p.h. for a running-in period I looked down to see I was doing 105.  Whoops.

So there we are, for the moment.  Not much travel expected now that it is winter although yesterday Carlos took wife and kids on a short run to Guimarães and then back to a favourite restaurant for a meal with forty or fifty other old-car people.  No, not a turkey lunch but the dreaded bacalhau, in other words cod.  Traditional.  I had to go in the modern as dog not been too well and did not want to leave him but he is OK left in the car for an hour or so.  Oh, and he enjoys the seating in the Aprilia as the front seats are close together so he can cuddle up against me.

A long time since my last posting but I am still here to bring the story up to date. 

At that time I was celebrating the new wheels and the car was running well.  Still a clunk from the left front side and this was because the axle that came with the car had been modified years ago. Well, hacked about to be honest, by people who presumably had no knowledge of sliding pillars.  Only answer was to look for another axle and here again Simon did the honours, not only locating one not far from his area but also wrapping it up for despatch. Think about that – what an awkward thing to wrap.

Anyway, eventually this odd shape arrived here and was sent to fettler for installation.   On road test the mechanic reported some pulling to the left – not tracking, that was fine.  However boss man was now on crutches through playing with two wheeled devices and being fooled by a car in front that indicated one way and turned another.  So Joâo was not able to check this out himself but it was decided to strip it all down and find the problem.  Don’t forget they have never seen one of these axles.

The port side was the problem, the starboard seems fine so used as an example in setting up the left side.  Looking at the parts diagram, what the Italian version calls the guido superiore had a crack from one of the holes down to the base.  That has been repaired.  You can see it towards the front of the bench in the photos.

Not clear from the drawings there is what can be called a non-return valve under 607A Italian version, guido inferiore.  607 French version.  This takes the form of a washer with a 13mm hole in the centre.  It should be made from spring steel and thus be slightly flexible.  What we found was a thicker, non-flexible washer which was broken anyway.  They have had made some of these discs which are about 8 thou thick. Not an easy task to cut the 13mm hole in the centre and they used laser cutting.  One wonders how on earth they cut it at Lancia.

Some of our engineer members may like to comment on all this and probably correct some of my statements.

Speaking to John Savage he remembers Harry Manning as saying that these little disc jobs tended to give up the ghost at 50,000 miles.  So that is something for you to worry about.

And that brings us up to date and will stay that way for a week or two as the expert mechanic this morning pulled his back something ‘orrible and Joâo is still on cruteches.  It all happens here.

Correction to my last.  Harry was quoted as saying fifty years not 50,000 miles.  So relax.

Road test!   Aprilia collected last Friday - well, it was my birthday -and I drove it back trying to take in as many small holes or rough pieces of road that I could find, as a trial.  We have a lot of pot holes, more than England I can assure you.

Glad to say seems fine and a real pleasure to drive.  Obviously a drop or two of oil on the floor under the suspension but so far not too much and we'll see how it goes.

Happy Birthday  .... and what better way to spend it !

Lots of Aprilia miles from now on

It has been an age since I posted but for a while little of interest to report. Carlos took the Aprilia on a run with the local Scuderia Lancia Portugal earlier in the year and later a two night trip  into the mountains.   These were ideal test runs and showed need of some attention as she was dropping out of gear at times.  Also the steering could be improved and free play reduced.

Talking around we decided first an attack on the steering box, starting by obtaining new Silentbloc bushes.    Our chief adviser, Simon of course, provided the advice as well as spare parts from his coffers in the shape of worm and sector. Even better I was able to collect in person. 

The gearbox needed thought and first clue came from the club’s Aprilia expert John Savage.  His first suggestion was to renew the two bearings either end of the ‘albero primario’  main shaft.  This was also the first item in a detailed list of suggestions  kindly provided by Morris Parry.  Each of his suggestions was checked in turn.  In sorting out bearing numbers I was grateful for copy of a list of RIV bearings which gives the RIV number as well as Lancia part number.

Where would we be without the web?  Through which I  easily sourced two RIV 4183 from the Republic of San Marino based supplier Nuvolari Store.  What really got me going was the bearings arrived in their original boxes, complete with labels.

The result of all this has been very satisfying. I have yet to drive the car but Carlos reports no gears dropping out and steering vastly improved, minimum free play when wheels are in the straight ahead position, as advised.

My thanks to those who have helped.  There’s something about Lancia people.