Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: gustosomerset on 01 January, 2012, 07:42:30 PM



Title: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: gustosomerset on 01 January, 2012, 07:42:30 PM
Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere but my new insurance company require me to submit an 'expert valuation' (along with photographs) for my 1972 Fulvia before they will consent to an agreed valuation. They seem rather vague about the definition of 'expert' - can anyone reccomend who could help me with this? Many thanks.


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: Richard Fridd on 01 January, 2012, 08:37:53 PM
A recognized motor club valuation would be acceptable or a  local  marque specialist if more convenient . best regards richard


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: gustosomerset on 02 January, 2012, 09:16:57 PM
Thankyou. And who would I best to contact at the LMC for a valuation?


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: sparehead3 on 02 January, 2012, 11:01:29 PM
In the first instance drop Barabara (secretary@lanciamc.co.uk) an email and she'd know (or the Fulvia technical advisor)


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: fay66 on 03 January, 2012, 01:14:05 AM
Thankyou. And who would I best to contact at the LMC for a valuation?

Hi I've just checked but your profile doesn't say where you're based, is Somserset in your handle a clue? as where you are might make a difference, about 10 years ago it was set up in the Club that the Model Advisers would look at vehicles for valuation purpose, and in fact I've done a number of Dedra over the years, problem is what do they class as an "expert Valuation" is there any criteria ? I could recommend a number of members who might be able to give you a good idea, but it would depend if their views were acceptable to the insurers.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: gustosomerset on 03 January, 2012, 09:59:55 PM
Brian - Many thanks. Somerset it is, indeed - just south of Bath. The insurance company seem not to know what they mean by 'expert valuation' but I suspect it would need to be something that was seen to be endorsed by the LMC (or perhaps a dealer) rather than just a personal opinion - however expert that might in fact be. I'll contact Barbara, but if anyone has any other suggestions, most gratefully received. Thanks again.


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: sparehead3 on 03 January, 2012, 10:31:46 PM
Gus,
If you feel like trundling along to the Bristol Meeting then we're just up the A46 at Hinton at the end of the month and usually have someone who owns or has owned a Fulvia.
Steve


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: thecolonel on 03 January, 2012, 11:08:00 PM
Don't know if it still the same but,
The Club used to offer a valuation/expert opinion
service.


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: Scott on 04 January, 2012, 08:37:11 AM
What your insurance company is asking doesn't seem common practice. I have an agreed valuation on my Fulvia but this was done by sending in a number of photographs and a detailed 'condition' form. It was then  presumably considered by a (specialist) underwriter using these details and market prices to agree what I'd requested was fair and accept it.

Indeed a quick google and I came across this from a well known classic car insurer: http://www.lancasterinsurance.co.uk/agreed_valuation.htm (http://www.lancasterinsurance.co.uk/agreed_valuation.htm)
The details under this url confirm what my insurer does/did too. Of interest it specifically says: Under no circumstances do we request or accept an independent valuation from a vehicle dealer or restorer. Our valuations are carried out by an independent Classic Car expert.

In other words you will be paying a slight premium to have an agreed valuation policy and part of that is to cover the insurance company's cost in THEM dealing with processing the requested, agreed, valuation.

Are you dealing directly with an insurer or going through a broker who perhaps isn't that au fait with what's needed and is making you jump through hoops that will end up being a waste of time. Might be worth double checking (or changing insurer!  ;))


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: donw on 04 January, 2012, 11:35:13 AM
Unless things have been changed since the scheme was set up the Club does do valuations, usually by model advisors, this is "free" to members only mileage is charged, if there is no model advisor near enough to do an inspection then they can ask another member to inspect and report back to them.

These valuations are accepted by both Footman James and Adrian Flux.  They have also been accepted by some other insurers.

A rough guide to values is published in Classic Cars each month covering conditions from concours to rough, if the valuation is within these parameters most insurers will accept, if higher then they may require further evidence.  Some require photos as a matter of course.

Don


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: gustosomerset on 04 January, 2012, 09:50:50 PM
Thanks to all.
Steve, I'd love to come to the Bristol meeting if I can, thanks for the invite.
Scott, I agree that I think what they're asking for is odd. In the past I seem to remember submitting photos but I would expect them to do the valuation, not me or someone I choose. It doesn't seem to me to make sense that way around. It is indeed a broker who seems generally fairly dim....
Don's subsequent post, however, seems to suggest that Footman James and Adrian Flux do indeed require an 'external' valuation from the customer in a similar way. In any case I have requested clarification from the broker.
Thanks again for all of your input.


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: sparehead3 on 04 January, 2012, 10:13:06 PM
Someone will be there from 8pm-ish - relaxed friendly group and we'll no doubt be talking about the Bristol Italian Auto Moto in April. Just don't be surprised if there are no Lancias in the carpark :) - usually one or two in the winter though !


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: donw on 05 January, 2012, 05:22:37 PM
Gus

I dont know any insurer that does valuations, some may require a "professional" i.e. a dealer or valuer and some have condition reports to be completed either by the owner or the valuer.

The only time the insurer will commision a valuation will be in the event of a claim amounting to a total loss, when the valuation you have had will be tested, usually only a problem if values have fallen.

Any broker specialising classic car insurance should know what the insurer requires.  Lack of knowledge/expertise does not engender confidence, and would not bode well for the help you might need in the event of a claim.

With classic car insurance price is only one aspect service is as if not more important.

Don





Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: fay66 on 05 January, 2012, 07:01:28 PM
Below is the F&J form, so with 4 current colour photos if with the car is over 20 years old and valued at under 15k you self certify.
sorry about the tea stains! ::)

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: gustosomerset on 11 January, 2012, 09:04:01 AM
So now, eventually, the broker has sent me a simple form (similar to the FJ one above) requiring me to specify the condition of Bodywork, Interior and Engine as either 'Concours', 'Excellent', Serviceable' or 'Poor', to which I add photographs. All fairly easy, but it then has to be signed by someone else, who specifies their 'Relevant Qualifications'.

Seems to me one man's 'relevant qualifications' are another man's 'biased opinion'....but still. I think I'll just take it along to my local garage who do the MOT and get them to sign it. All seems a bit daft.

I know this is probably a daft question (and I could just look up Classic Cars as suggested) but given the depth of knowledge here, would anyone like to hazard a guess at a reasonable value for the car?

Details are: RHD 1972 Fulvia HF Lusso with all bills since new (including original factory sale invoice), handbook and toolkit. Has been resprayed at some point in original red. Engine, brakes and transmission restored by Omicron 5 years ago at eye-watering cost. Spent almost all it's life in South Africa so bodywork excellent. In fact, I think I'd answer 'Excellent' to all of the above questions re condition. Obviously I'm not going to sell it, but for insurance purposes, I would be interested in anyone's view...

Many thanks as ever.


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: donw on 11 January, 2012, 01:08:25 PM
Gus

Normally insurers define a relevant qualification as a marque/model expert, classic car dealer or restorer, I doubt that a general mot garage would qualify.

If they do accept such a signature there is the potential for major arguments in the unfortunate event of a claim.  It would be much safer to ask them to a definition at this stage, if I were having these problems I would find another broker/insurer with proven expertise in insuring classics.

No one is likely to sign a valuation without actually inspecting the vehicle but the guide in Classic Cars gives 7k for good, 12k for mint & 15k for concours/dealer.  So somewhere between 7k and 15k would seem to be the range.

Don



Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: fay66 on 12 January, 2012, 12:12:42 AM
Going by my FJ form it looks like any LMC Committee Member would meet the Criteria.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Insurance Agreed Valuation
Post by: Dilambdaman on 12 January, 2012, 09:54:51 AM
Don Williamson kindly valued the Dilambda and Footman James accepted and agreed it.

Robin.