Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: LanciAlan on 16 August, 2011, 10:31:36 AM



Title: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 16 August, 2011, 10:31:36 AM
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ok09Ck_3cX8/TkqQH9Ax8VI/AAAAAAAABYU/pQl5_oWvuNw/s400/2c_OPD37E_M_Newberry%252527s_1997_3_copy.jpg)
Hi Alan,
Didn't realise you had a 2c, any details and photos please.
If you need any help I'd be happy to oblige.
Brian 8227 8)
Its the ex-Peter & Lin Baker and ex-Lee Proudfoot car - so its one you probably know.  Fundamentally great, but needs some serious TLC to lower external panels - sills, door bottoms etc.  A stonking engine, I gather, and from what I recall, a very nice interior.
Thanks Chris,
didn't realise Lee had sold it.
I first came across OPD 37E in Michael Newberry's Collection when I went to his Lancia Picnic Day about 1996/7, it, along with Robin Lacy's Lovely 2c CTA 762C that was at the meeting, were the reason for me deciding that I would look for a 2c that culminated in my purchasing "Fay" in 1997.
At the time OPD 37E was in pristine condition , later on it was purchased by Cesaere Ferrari from Ealing, Cesaere had a disaster sometime later when he blew a hole in a piston, I offered him one of my spare original pistons left over after I'd previously had to have "Fays" 1091cc engine rebored and fitted with oversize pistons, after a ring broke and scored a bore badly, which resulted in a complete engine rebuild.
However it turned out that OPD 37E already had oversized pistons, so my standard piston was of no use, I believe at that point it acquired the 1298cc engine.
After that I lost touch with Ceasare as I think he dropped out of the Lancia world.
Sometime later peter bought her off of Ebay? no longer the pristine lady she used to be, and also with a missing chrome horn ring, which is where my spare one that was donated resides.
Photo is about 1998 at Goodwood Track Day when owned by Cesaere.
Brian
8227 8)
(http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4089.0;attach=10608;image)


Hello Brian

I meant to say hello to you at the AGM and have a quick look at Fay even though at that stage I had nothing to compare to it as I only got my 2C on the following monday. With delivering the Flaminia the AGM was all a bit of a daze - I think I only had one beer all weekend!

Yes, the Newberry/Ferrari car previously known to you and as described by Chris above is the result of my trawl for something to bring home on the empty trailer. I don't recall seeing it on eBay at any stage in recent years but that may be as I was not particularly looking for one.

I am very pleased with it and am making it my project for Fulvia 2013 but you would be sorry to see its condition now. I will post a few more pictures of my own but you can see it in this set by Lee Proudfoot (current pics at bottom of page 2):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/80688018@N00/sets/72157606371734891/with/2349496211/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/80688018@N00/sets/72157606371734891/with/2349496211/)

As the later pictures show, the bottom 6 inches are now so bad you would wonder how it was capable of road use even as recently as 2008. I can only assume that its 10-years spent in the Newberry collection following its import from Cyprus via Greece (as I understand from Lee) extended its natural life but that it began to deteriorate in real time once again when Mr Ferrari put it into regular use. However it is very straight, complete and mostly original apart from the bigger engine and the electrical modifications made for rally use. The exterior trim is all particularly good.

No doubt I will be in touch about one thing and another but don't expect a perfect or even faithful restoration like your own car as I have some pretty radical ideas for it but I think it will be a good candidate for Fulvia 2013 whatever happens and at least it will live to see another day.

Current needs include a front bumper and the black bits of the dashboard - I know you re-fashioned some of yours but I would be optimistic of sourcing these on the continent. The main  parts seem to be ambidextrous as regards LHD and RHD? Can't really think of what else it might need - I presume Bill Lewis is the man for sills and arches?

Regards

Alan

Hello Alan,
Sorry I missed you too at Cheltenham but I was only there for the sunday, I'd loved to have shown you around "Fay", I'm hoping I can put enough money together so that I can get Alan Wesson to do a bit of tidying for me, it's now 12 years since I put her back on the road, one job is the bottom of the front passenger door, very annoying, as about 6 years ago I had the Fiat Dealer in Bedford in 2006 cut the bottoms 3 inches out of both front doors, replace the section, paint, and antirust inside the doors, the drivers side is still ok but the passenger door is going again >:(
Sorry to see poor old OPD in the condition she is now in, the underbonnet fire Lee had certainly couldn't have helped with doing other necessary jobs, and I suspect that she has never had any major work to the lower body up to now.
However, you'll be pleased to know that from below the silver facia panel, all the padding is the same as series 2 Berlina, I only found out when idly pouring through the Tavoli one day a couple of years ago, to find the part numbers for series 1 ans 2 were the same, I'd been looking around for the thin pad that runs from the air vent one side, under the silver panel and the instrument cluster to the other air vent for years, without any luck.
You would be unlucky looking for the lower crash pads and glove box lid on the Continent as all of them are specific RHD or LHD, ( I have a LHD one to prove it!) look at the sides of the Glove box lid, one side is vertical the other is angled, on LHD it is on the opposite side of the lid, and this affects the rest of these panels.
If you look at a series 2 Berlina dash it looks totally different from series one, but it's only above the padding I've mentioned that it changes, the rest of it is the same.
I have a set of the knee level ones, so if you need them please let me know.
I see that the offside of your front bumper is badly damaged, if you know anyone who can weld stainless steel my original bumper was damaged on the nearside end but the rest of it is OK, so if you want it it's yours, I bought a refurbished one from Cavellito about 10 years ago,  Jack Romano brought it back from Turin for me on a plane, telling them it was a pair of skis!
Jack got his own back a couple of years later when we went to Turin on another trip which included calling in at Cavellito's for more bits, I asked Jack if I could return the favour, which resulted in 4 of us carry one Gamma front Disc Rotor each in our hand luggage, boy, were they heavy ::)
If you need anything give me a ring, I haven't got a vast range of spares, but at least it's all 2c related.
What is the condition of the dash top crash pad? mine was in a terrible state as all the foam had turned to dust, I had one made but it wasn't right, and I eventually found one through a friend in Holland.
Nearly all the exterior brightwork is stainless steel, but do look after it as it's near impossible to get hold of, but I have most of a spare set if you're stuck anytime.
Door handles go really bad and are also hard to get hold of, I had the last two new ones that Cavellito had about 5 years ago.
If you have trouble with the gear linkage ( the original bushes break up) I got about a dozen from Cavellito, I gave a set to a friend in Holland when their AA had to do a temporary repair to his with a champagne cork ::) and I have a few spare.
Finally out of the three 2C's that I know off, two now reside in Ireland as that was where Robin Lacey's CTA 762C finished up a few years ago.
 Nearly forgot! I never had to have any panels made but I'd certainly say from all I've heard that Bill Lewis is your man, although original panels still turn up, mainly in Italy.

Brian
8227 8)

Hi Brian

I've sort of moved this to a new thread as it sprouted out of the Flaminia/Aurelia discussion that sprouted out of my Flaminia for sale ad. I think the Goodwood pic upsized quite well if I only knew how I did it. And here is the Monte one referred to subsequently by David Laver. As it seemed a bit out of shape, I've widened it by 15% and it looks a bit less impossible/dramatic now:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EzOk5keVv-k/TkqGYBpFC-I/AAAAAAAABWc/6aZhWkwrtKc/s640/3758800935_38f0b4c45a_o.jpg)

I also took the liberty of revising your reference to the white car's reg. which is OPD 37E (unless you also know of an OPD 111E floating around which would make 4 2Cs that you now know!).

Many thanks for your kind offer of dash panels and bumper which I will follow up in due course. A cut and shut job sounds like a good approach to bumper conservation, maybe with a covering strip up the middle like on some Lancias of the period.

Good to know also that the lower half of the dash (incl knee/crash pads?) is common with S2 - there is an S2 for parts on eBay at the moment but it is quite rough, not cheap and the dash seems broken. My worst knee/crash pad is the driver's side which someone has repaired with builder's foam. The top section of the dash is externally intact apart from a few cracks but it the black shell is brittle and the internal foam has obviously disintegrated - just waiting for someone to put a finger through it basically.

I haven't come across Robin Lacey's car or even heard word of it over here at all (at all) yet. If you know of only 3, then there can't be many more around. I knew it was an unusual car but this makes me think I should be as sympathetic as possible in my restoration efforts.

Gear shift is a bit vague but works and I have so far only casually observed the linkages on the front bulkhead. I presume Fay is also column shift? Took me a while to figure out as I never used column shift before. I like it but I am wondering to myself (without giving away too much of my plans) if it can be adapted to control a 5-speed box. I don't see why it couldn't unless there is a selector "gate" to be overcome on the column end or unless the 4-speed and 5-speed boxes have a different selector arm arrangement at the gearbox end.

The fire damage to brake system and clutch/accelerator cables has been largely repaired by Tanc Barratt so that will stand to the car and to me in terms of refurbishment.

Door handles don't bother me too much so long as they work and can be got off the car for painting - I guess the latter is the greater challenge if, like Fulvia Coupes I have experienced, the threaded mounting pins snap off as soon as you look at them.

Nothing further occurs but to maintain the continuum of its history to date I've added some pics of the car, firstly as it was when in the Newberry collection (very top above) and as found in 2011 (below)...

Alan

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LUGYf5_Eh28/TkqNgTi7mdI/AAAAAAAABXM/bIeV5C5Uwv4/s640/5942574750_7b1ef1b1d6_b.jpg)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: sparehead3 on 16 August, 2011, 11:27:48 AM
Alan, Lee - that car is currently in the database under Lee's ownership. It'd be great (Lee) if you could transfer ownership over to Alan - you should both then have your own 'copy' of the car details and are free to amend them. The database will know it as one vehicle (even when it gets a new number plate in Ireland). I've tested this feature in the past but there's nothing like a real world example :)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: sparehead3 on 16 August, 2011, 11:30:57 AM
Ok, I'll add a footnote to that - Lee has already ended his ownership so Alan should be free add the vehicle and the system should pull through the car as Lee had it!


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 16 August, 2011, 11:54:47 AM
Alan, Lee - that car is currently in the database under Lee's ownership. It'd be great (Lee) if you could transfer ownership over to Alan - you should both then have your own 'copy' of the car details and are free to amend them. The database will know it as one vehicle (even when it gets a new number plate in Ireland). I've tested this feature in the past but there's nothing like a real world example :)
Ok, I'll add a footnote to that - Lee has already ended his ownership so Alan should be free add the vehicle and the system should pull through the car as Lee had it!

Hi Steve

I will catch up with this during the week - I need to do a job on all my cars for the database as most came from the UK and have good histories.

Alan


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: sparehead3 on 16 August, 2011, 12:07:50 PM
Ok, Cool. If they already exist in the database then put them in with a UK reg first and then swap it to your new reg and the system will know them as the same vehicle.
Otherwise, I can manually link them together if the UK ownership subsequently appears.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 16 August, 2011, 02:50:12 PM
Alan,
Thanks for changing over to a 2c Thread.
I wondered where the reference to OPD 111E came from as it didn't ring any bells with me either, until I looked at the 2000 Register of owners and their cars to find OPD 111E is listed as Michael Newberry's 2c, which is clearly incorrect, as all the photos I have show it as OPD 37E, can't understand why I haven't picked up on that one before :-[
Regarding the bumper, shouldn't be necessary to join in the middle, all you need to do is cut the nearside end off of your bumper as they are all welded at that point, and add it on to the remains of mine.
If you have a look at this early photo of "Fay" and myself you can see the damage, this bit eventually fell off!
CTA 762C is owned by Bill Shannon who lives in the North but I can't remember where, but I do have his old phone number if you want it, assuming he still lives where he used to, I've included some pretty poor quality photos of the restoration he sent me, as well as a couple from when it was still in the UK and local to me, before being sold to Bill.
Nice photo of Peter on the Historic Monte, don't think I've ever had "Fay" leaning that much even on the Fiat Test Track at La Mandria!
"Fay" also has a column gearchange which is pretty precise, so I would suspect the bushes in the linkage, most of the linkage is individually adjustable; I don't know of anyone trying to add a fith gear to the column change and I'm not sure if it's possible, although a 5 speed on the floor is possible, but if I were thinking of going that way I'd use the much nicer 4 speed floor change box from a series 1 coupe, which would go nicely with the 1298cc engine and was basically the set up of the Series 1 GT Berlina, one problem is that the final drive ratio on the 2c only gives 15mph per 1000 rpm which is about right for the 1091cc engine, although I sometimes find myself looking for another gear at 75mph, but a higher ratio would certainly be a better bet with the 1298cc engine, with the extra power of the bigger engine it must be revving it's nuts off :o
A friend in Holland put a higher diff in his 2c but as Holland is what you might call flat it didn't cause him any problems, but I'd be wary of doing so in "Fay" with some of the hills here.
Brian


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 16 August, 2011, 03:20:57 PM
More,
I couldn't find the photo with the damage to the end of the bumper.
But if you fancy something different, and a bit of open air motoring! Dutch police confiscated this one as it didn't have type approval.
Note that OPD 37E in the rear photos when in Michael Newberry's collection doesn't have the Lancia Fulvia script only the 2c badge, "Fay" did have the script and 2C badge but they were badly pitted, shortly after Cesaere bought OPD 37E I received a parcel from him, when I opened it inside was a beautiful Lancia Fulvia Script cut from blank stock rather than a marzak casting, while visiting Turin he had bought 2 of these from the Biscaretti Museum, one for himself (now on OPD 37E), and very kindly one for me, as he knew mine was in poor condition. While visiting a Classic Car & Bike show in 2001 at Oporto Portugal, I was browsing the autojumble stalls and was astounded when I spotted a brand new old stock 2C badge on a stall.
He only had the one, and no other Lancia bits whatsoever :)talk about a find as I've never seen another since.  
Brian


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: peterbaker on 16 August, 2011, 05:45:02 PM
We were travelling downhill on snow when the track suddenly went left. I went straight on and smote a low wall with my eyes closed. luckily only the bumper took impact, we didn't stop as were were running late. After the next control I discovered the missing quarter bumper. Later when parked up on the Quay in Monte Carlo a young man who has been spectating on the Col handed us back the missing part. I may still have it if it helps? I also have a selection of Sedan parts.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: chriswgawne on 17 August, 2011, 06:54:30 AM
We had a lhd ex South Africa lhd Fulvia 2C back in the 70's and early 80's and in fact it was Jacky's first car which she learned to drive on. There uis a story about buying the car and then subsequently talking to Harry Manning about it but thats another story.  A real Q car fitted with Michelin XAS tyres which was perfect for transporting 3 young children, pram (remember Silver Cross?) etc around but sadly some good in an Alfasud hit the rh front wheel at speed writing off his car and cracking our subframe.
I kept the car inside  wondering if I would ever rebuild it and replaced it with a 5 speed rhd Fulvia Sedan Srs 2 which was a fine car but not as nice to drive as our original.
One day some years later Michael Newberry ( who I had then sold our Flaminia 3CGTL to recently) phoned me to ask me if I would sell the bootlid (or it may have been the bonnet) off the 2C which he had seen at the back of my workshop as he needed one for the restoration of his Fulvia Srs1 Sedan. I said I would (for £20 I recall) but that he would have to take the rest of the car as well as once I started breaking it up there was no way I would then restore it! Somewhat surprised he agreed and some years later at one of his picnics I saw the remains of our car (RDP322R from memory).
So, 'our' car lives on I think as part of the white car?

As an aside, our alloy Fulvia Sport is OPD23E joining the 'Fulvia OPD family'. 
Chris
PS I thought the front and rear bumpers were one piece?


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 17 August, 2011, 09:28:38 AM
Chris,
I remember seeing the sorry remains, what little there was of it on the left hand side of Michaels drive opposite his workshop.
Like yourself I think 2c's are a much more capable car than many give them credit for as the odd passenger in mine has found out!
Your quite correct in that the bumper looks like it's one piece, but in fact it was manufactured from two ends (corners) and one centre piece. both my old bumper that the end fell off of, & my current bumper that came from Cavellito are manufactured the same.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 09 October, 2011, 02:07:14 PM
Someone I know is looking at this 2C for sale in Australia - it would probably be a better place to start for 2013 ...

(http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/carsales/car/private/cp5277207413691515189.jpg)  (http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/carsales/car/private/cp4928362354105603713.jpg)  (http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/carsales/car/private/cp4661690692936690176.jpg)

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?Cr=1&R=11120301&keywords=&trecs=2&__sid=132EAE242283&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__Qpb=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&seot=1&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282%204294964705%204294964699&silo=1011 (http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?Cr=1&R=11120301&keywords=&trecs=2&__sid=132EAE242283&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__Qpb=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&seot=1&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282%204294964705%204294964699&silo=1011)

By way of an update on my own white car, the subject of this thread, I have arranged with Bill Lewis to make up wing/wheelarch sections and such other panels as it may need. As Bill has not made many 2C panels before, he has no buck in stock. Thanks to Brian Hilton who kindly agreed to provide "Fay" as a template. However it seems the "measuring up" will take longer than just a single visit so I am bringing my car over to Bill en route to the NEC in November and leaving it with him for a while. Another trailer roadtrip! Ironically, the last trip involved collecting the car from quite near Bill's so I could have left it there then.

Bill also enquired particularly whether I had someone lined up to fit the panels as he reckoned an inexperienced person could get into some trouble with buckling/warping panels since both the car itself and the metal he uses are quite thin. He mentioned that he has a friend about 20 miles away who is used to this work so I will look into that too .... and the 2000 Sedan apparently lying disused near his friend's workshop.

Towing in the UK is still presenting me with problems as it seems my car dolly is, strictly speaking, permitted only for use in the recovery of broken down cars and not for routine car transport. Hiring a full car transporter at daily rates to work around this restriction is a bit of an added cost and a logistical pain.

As it happens, I may end up making a bespoke 2C transporter trailer myself in this case since I am thinking of reducing the car to a rolling shell before I transport it to the UK in case it ends up staying there to have work done. But I could go further to facilitate the body restoration and make it a bare shell for which I could make a simple 2-wheel trailer. With a bare shell on a 2 wheel trailer I would be prepared to argue the toss with any road traffic officer that it is, strictly speaking, no longer a a towed car and that it certainly has no wheels on the ground!


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fensaddler on 09 October, 2011, 09:37:36 PM
This is my favourite Aussie car spotting site, and well worth casual perusal - there is some fantastic stuff on there.  This Fulvia looks very nice, and the price is very reasonable.  I'll be intrigued to know where it goes, whether it stays down under or goes elsewhere, as it looks lovely.  My routine searches are much more prosaic - I'm keeping an eye on the market for the Suzuki Kizashi and Mitsubishi ASX as a daily driver, and something like a mk4 Golf for Sharon.  On the other hand, the ASX may be what Sharon drives during the week, and I'll get an MX5 for the run to the station...

My Delta is, I think, en route through the Suez Canal, and we fly out in 8 days time, so what is happening in Aus is increasingly assuming greater importance than what happens here...


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 09 October, 2011, 09:53:20 PM
Better the Suez Canal than Somali Pirates getting their hands on your Delta ....


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 10 October, 2011, 12:43:29 PM
Alan,
It isn't in fact a 2c it's a Normale, and while they are the purest Fulvia Berlina they are not exactly a ball of fire, but if you can live with the performance they are very nice.
The Normale although it had 1091cc engine only turned out 58 BHP @ 5800rpm, 7.8:1 compression Ratio,
Max Torque was 8.4 Kgfm @4000 rpm, and had a single twin choke downdraught (Compound) Carburettor. It is being sold with the twin chike solexes but while this will improve the performance it will still not be up to the same level as a 2c.
2c has 71bhp @ 6000rpm 9:1 Compression Ratio and has 2 x  Twin Solex C32 PHH horizontal carburettors.
At the same time the gear ratios were changed and the subframe mounting points revised.
Although "La Lancia" doesn't say so, I've always been under the impression that there were changes to the rear seat to give a better seating position at the same time, and that there were also changes to the instruments.
An easy way to tell is that Normale was the only Fulvia Berlina to have the front and rear overriders and there wasn't a 2c badge on the rear panel, it also seems to be minus the left front indicator and the rear carpet, although rubber mats were standard spec originally.
Surprised no photos of the engine compartment or the boot?
I think that Normale was actually slower than the Appia that it had replaced.
The 2c was bought in to answer the demand for extra power, and the 2c superseded the normale as the standard Fulvia Berlina.

Brian
8227 8)
 


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 10 October, 2011, 01:48:49 PM
Hi Brian

You are of course quite right. I forgot about the particular meaning of "2C" and its lineage almost as soon as I had learned them and was simply using the term to describe a car that looked broadly like mine/ours.

You can have some "fun" classifying mine when it emerges with a 1600 engine, 5-speed box, alloy wheels, girling brakes, highback seats, lower suspension, Fulvia Sport bonnet stripes and a sound system. At least thats the plan. I've been told I have to keep the colour white though.

Do you know if Fulvia sedans ever came with tinted glass, as in, the light green tint seen on continental models of some cars, including Lancias such as the 2000?

Alan


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: DavidLaver on 10 October, 2011, 05:53:52 PM

My vote is stay white, keep ~that~ dent, steel wheels (hubcaps are SUCH a rare and special thing to see these days) and surely a hot 1300cc is plenty...

High back seats I can understand for peace of mind and while the engine should be music enough the way traffic can get it can sooth the nerves watching the Ts&Ps.  IPod lead.  Electric fan.  Does it have an oil cooler already?  If you are getting a special screen made with a top tint could they put a heater into it as well?  I'd also add extra washer jets, double pump, and large capacity reservoir so there's no need to ration the water on a trip.

David


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: DavidLaver on 10 October, 2011, 05:57:52 PM

Why not at least nurture the dream of another go on the Monte?

David


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 10 October, 2011, 06:21:49 PM
hi David ,yes steel wheels/ hubcaps are good!all of my cars have them albeit those for the sport are stored in my sock drawer.also strange how things have changed-i think 80% of my everyday/local  journeys in my sedan involve waves and nice words from people[half of them from ladies-and i dont mean from old ladies!]so an interesting vehicle which seems to please a lot of people.good value so far but must get rid of something as space is running out!best regards richard


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 10 October, 2011, 09:03:19 PM
Thanks for your not too critical feedback. I would never have thought of upgrading the screen washer system in terms of capacity and power but I agree it is an easy and satisfying fix. I don't know whether hot water jets would be an advantage too but has anyone else ever thought of running the screenwash through a coil of copper pipe wrapped around either the exhaust or a rad hose!

However my investment in Cromadoras (20+ at the last count) and other alloys makes it necessary that I apply them to every Lancia of mine that they will fit, at least for a while. Originality has not actually been completely ruled out either as it is sometimes the simplest approach. I am not too worried about S1/S2 transmission hump differences but all this talk of clutch, flywheel, splined shaft, bellhousing, manifold, subframe, etc. differences has made me a bit wary of making a dolly-mixture Fulvia. So I had better at least check the Cromadoras will fit under the arches before I start dismantling.

I have unfortunately never found the Fulvia (or any other car I have owned) to have any particular attraction for the ladies or pulling power of that kind, but maybe now that the ginger is fading to sandy ......


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fensaddler on 10 October, 2011, 10:05:14 PM
Better the Suez Canal than Somali Pirates getting their hands on your Delta ....

Running the gauntlet of Somali pirates is next, probably over the next few days.  Though at 400m long and 50m wide, and capable of 25 knots, I'd imagine the MSC Livorno is a big ask to board successfully...


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 11 October, 2011, 12:36:05 AM
Hi Alan,
I wasn't trying to be pedantic, just to point out that if anyone bought it thinking it was a 2c they might be disappointed with the performance, but it's a charming Berlina in it's own right.
I shall be very interested in seeing/riding in your Berlina when finished, however it would still be correct to call it a 2c as no doubt it will retain a version of twin choke horizontal Carburettors anyway; that is unless you talk to Paul Le Clerque and fit fuel injection!
Now that would be interesting ;D
I know your 2c probably no longer has the mechanical fan, but as a matter of interest does it still have the radiator shutter?

going by some of your proposed spec it will be half a GTE anyway.

Can't say I've ever seen a Fulvia Berlina with tinted glass or seen mention of it in the brochures.

3 Other Berlina Competition Colour schemes attached, I love the first photo in the darker blue.
Many years ago someone used to do a kit for heated washers and years ago I wrapped the wash tube around the heater hose, it worked very well once the engine was up to temperature.

Someone, possibly Neil Cundy? although I maybe wrong, modified the Fulvia wash pump so that when you pulled the knob as you do on series 1 Fulvia, it operated a microswitch so everything looked the same.

Another modification I used on my Fiat 500's was to bring a half Gallon bottle inside the passenger compartment as the washers were always freezing up in the winter with no heat source under the bonnet to keep it warm, but if you do go for the Historic Monte it might well be worth considering

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: chriswgawne on 11 October, 2011, 06:53:28 AM
Everything Brian is saying about Fulvia Sedans is of course correct. The 2C is a very modern, together car and will keep up with todays traffic (and stop!!) without any problem although I would prefer a 2C GT with a little extra power. There are always lhd examples available in good condition at reasonable prices here in NE Italy. In fact if they were in shorter supply I would feel some pressure to acquire one again but because of their availability I keep putting it off. (and I have just bought an Aurelia B20 project).
Also interestingly, the availability of NOS spares for things like the rear lights and speedo is still good.
As to the tinted glass query I think not. I have never seen a Fulvia Sedan with tinted glass. Do you agree Brian?
Chris


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 11 October, 2011, 08:59:09 AM
Everything Brian is saying about Fulvia Sedans is of course correct. The 2C is a very modern, together car and will keep up with todays traffic (and stop!!) without any problem although I would prefer a 2C GT with a little extra power. There are always lhd examples available in good condition at reasonable prices here in NE Italy. In fact if they were in shorter supply I would feel some pressure to acquire one again but because of their availability I keep putting it off. (and I have just bought an Aurelia B20 project).
Also interestingly, the availability of NOS spares for things like the rear lights and speedo is still good.
As to the tinted glass query I think not. I have never seen a Fulvia Sedan with tinted glass. Do you agree Brian?
Chris
Yes Chris,
Very much in agreement overall, availability is still good as far as LHD Berlina are concerned, although these like many other Lancias' are climbing in value.
 Some of the spares for series 1 Berlina's are getting rather expensive, recently there was a pair of the original chromed cast tailights for sale for which they were asking well over £100 each, the later plastic bodied ones are certainly easier to get hold of, and at a more reasonable cost.

Brian
8227 8)



Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 11 October, 2011, 09:35:23 AM
Running the gauntlet of Somali pirates is next, probably over the next few days.  Though at 400m long and 50m wide, and capable of 25 knots, I'd imagine the MSC Livorno is a big ask to board successfully...

That's less than the length of 4 oval running tracks and just a bit wider. Hopefully it is quite tall and slippery and has some of the anti-boarding devices I read about at the weekend - trailing razor wires from the gunwales are apparently a very effective deterrent when used in conjunction with tear gas (in case the razors didn't bring tears).

I know your 2c probably no longer has the mechanical fan, but as a matter of interest does it still have the radiator shutter?

3 Other Berlina Competition Colour schemes attached, I love the first photo in the darker blue.

Brian
8227 8)

Thanks for the competition car pics Brian - I didn't know such things existed. I would be thinking of something on the more subtle side such as the first (blue) one you say you like but in my car's original white with a black 3-piece stripe.

Funny how "You are of course quite right" translates into "You are factually correct but being a bit pedantic about it" even in ordinary usage! I know someone who uses the term all the time to acknowledge/flatter deep knowledge in others so, when I say it, I am usually taking him off but I have made it my own now. Anyhow, no pedantry implied.

I don't recall if my car has radiator louvres but I'll take another look when I see it. Could do with some of these on my 2000HF which is currently running without a thermostat and so is too hot in traffic (the stat seems to help with not only the rate of flow but also its direction) and too cold on the open road (normal stat-less effect).

And no I won't be going the FI route except if I find that the 2000HF motor fits into the Sedan a bit better than this attempt on a Fulvia Coupe did (bumper/grille/front valance pushed forward about 2 inches and bonnet slam panel deleted to accommodate flat 4)....

Useful also to know that green tinted windows are not commonplace in Fulvia sedans but I'll keep an eye out nonetheless.

Alan


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 12 October, 2011, 12:40:27 AM
Alan,
It was probably me doing my grumpy old man bit.
Have a look at the left side of the radiator as you should have a bracket with a swivel arm that is operated by an extending rod from the thermostat in the end of radiator, this in turn pulls on a cable that opens the shutters that cover the top half of the radiator, lovely bit of engineering, unfortunately when I had my radiator rebuilt about 3 years ago, they didn't get the side plates quite right and I couldn't get the bolts to line up, so mine is safely stored away until next time the rad needs work. :'(
I'm also running without a thermostat at present, but I have a rad blind ( or Bra in dutch) that came from Martin Willems, this works very well in winter even with the thermostat out, although it obviously takes longer to warm up, and doesn't keep the temperature at all if you open the flaps, and cools down very quickly.
If I was in your place, and having worked on my 2c quite a bit, I wouldn't even bother attempting the Flavia engine, it is so tight for room at the front of the engine that even changing the bottom rad hose is a major feat, the hood rail as well is considerably higher than the coupe which would cause access problems on it's own, but I do like the conversion in the coupe, looks great, did it make much difference to the performance?
William Vandersman in Holland did a similar operation to his sport that he raced.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 12 October, 2011, 10:31:00 AM
These pics (the first being courtesy of your own archives) suggest pas de flaps .... there is a bra in the boot

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4FN3I3y0QDw/TnyAyI4T2XI/AAAAAAAABnA/gCUhcdoRmbc/s800/2C%252520FRONT%252520valance.jpg)
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kyfQbOW4K0oVMJOObxH3V0rrIRV8vOFurvqz2XkAg4M?feat=directlink (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kyfQbOW4K0oVMJOObxH3V0rrIRV8vOFurvqz2XkAg4M?feat=directlink)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-CYtsAsbag2U/TnyAxLgP9GI/AAAAAAAABm4/MI-X78lIQTU/s800/2c%252520Fitted%252520with%2525201300cc%252520Engine%2525202.jpg)
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/V6mdG9-unqDr4MZNiZMTr0rrIRV8vOFurvqz2XkAg4M?feat=directlink (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/V6mdG9-unqDr4MZNiZMTr0rrIRV8vOFurvqz2XkAg4M?feat=directlink)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 12 October, 2011, 04:41:47 PM
is there any further info re the 'gordini blue' car which appears to be on banking?[a trick of the camera]


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 12 October, 2011, 09:59:16 PM
Alan, The answers staring me in the face in the 2nd photo, a series 2 radiator and electric fan have been fitted.
While the electric fan is a good mod from a technical point of view, you loose the wonderful asthetics of the cast & polished fan and mounting pillar, which is a real work of art, and I've always considered IMHO that it would be a shame to deprive myself of them ::)
Can't say I recognise the first photo as being mine?

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 12 October, 2011, 11:44:08 PM
is there any further info re the 'gordini blue' car which appears to be on banking?[a trick of the camera]

richard,
I think I originally got the picture off of ebay Italy, or off of the German site that sells cars (can't think of the name!) sometime ago when it was up for sale!
I've been hunting around ebay.it to see if I could find something similar, but no luck, I'm sure I've got other photos of competition Berlina's on my PC but I haven't found them yet, just a case of trying to remember what I filed them under!

Have a look at this.
http://www.ebay.it/itm/Transkit-LANCIA-FULVIA-2C-1-RALLYE-DEI-FIORI-65-CELLA-GAMENARA-EmmeBi-Tk03-/300601784167?pt=Modellismo_Statico&hash=item45fd433767

Note in the photos of the red car the fuel tank filler and the strap on the boot lid and bonnet.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 13 October, 2011, 06:59:05 AM
superb red car ! by a very strange coincidence i was only thinking of how good  fanalone seats would look in your sedan Alan and by further coincidence i went yesterday to visit the chap who now has mine from JLG who is saving them for a future project.i will dig out my targa 92 pics as there are a couple of sedans in there and perhaps scan them now that there is an interest in these cars.i would also be interested to know how light a sedan can be built.richard


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 13 October, 2011, 07:20:26 AM
superb red car ! by a very strange coincidence i was only thinking of how good  fanalone seats would look in your sedan Alan and by further coincidence i went yesterday to visit the chap who now has mine from JLG who is saving them for a future project.i will dig out my targa 92 pics as there are a couple of sedans in there and perhaps scan them now that there is an interest in these cars.i would also be interested to know how light a sedan can be built.richard

Didn't realise they were Fanalone seats! anyone got a set they don't want ;D certainly better up your back than the standard seats.
Going by the red one there hasn't been any great attempt at "Adding" lightness, I think you'd always struggle to get a lot off as the body itself is quite a massive structure.
I'd be interested to see any photos you have.
Here's one of the red car being painted.
Brian
8227 8)

I've just been trawling www.autoscout24.de 11 Fulvia for sale.
www.autoscout24.nl   7  Fulvia for sale
www.autoscout.it  178 Fulvia for sale,  although there's about a dozen listed as Fulvia but aren't.
No Competion Berlina's at all but there were a few Coupe.
But how about this asking price for a series 1 Fanalone! Johnathan didn't you do well, certainly not as original as yours as it appears to be in the process of being resprayed. ;D
http://www.autoscout24.de/Details.aspx?id=ljz41hg2r1mw


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 13 October, 2011, 10:22:05 AM
Hmmmm RED looks good. Pity the car posted by Brian is partly de-chromed around the rear - I think it would look great with the red colour.

I had no idea these cars had a competition history and am wondering why this would have been the case since the Coupe came out pretty soon after the Sedan and would have been as plentiful in supply from a serious competitor's perspective.

Re seats, I agree the HF seats look good but I'm afraid something more contemporary will be employed in my case - hopefully black and sporty but mainly comfortable.

Brian I meant the second photo was yours - they got re-sequenced in drafting! The rad flaps mechanism is indeed a wondersome thing to behold. I once dismantled a 1.3S coupe and I do have the fan and mounting pillar but I don't think that car had flaps mechanism. I think S2/3 used the fan pillar base to attach an engine stay arm and it makes me wonder how such a substantial support was omitted from earlier cars!


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 13 October, 2011, 11:35:43 AM
my fanalone seats sat on my jumble stall for ages and were given away to a good home for 75 each in good condition.if i find anymore i will be lucky!(http://)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 13 October, 2011, 11:44:26 AM
[targa 92]is the pic(http://)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 13 October, 2011, 11:46:51 AM
Alan,
Yes the Red does really suit the 2c, but like you I would like to see it with it's stainless mouldings around the rear as this really accentuates the lovely lines without adding much as far as weight is concerned, it seems daft to me to take them off but leave the very hefty stainless steel front and rear bumpers in situ, I can't also see that the hubcaps add that much either but probably weren't removed for that reason.
The 2c does have an engine steady that mounts between the block and the pillar of the fan, it's a fairly simple device compared to the one you refer to, as it only has a threaded screw with a pad and a piece of rubber on a base that is adjusted until it barely touches, this then stops the engine torquing too far.

It looks like they were only using the 2c as a stop gap until Coupe was ready, as in 1965 a 2c won the Rally dei Fiori crewed by Cella/Camerana, but also in 1965 the 1.2 Coupe made it's Debut on the Tour de Corse also crewed by Cella/Camerana, and came home 8th.
After it's first outing it seems the 2c never figured again as an official Lancia car, although they were still took part is rallying.
The next and only Fulvia outing in 1966, was on the Rally dei Fiori when a Coupe HF came home 1st crewed by Cella/Lombardini.

1967  saw Fulvia Coupe HF's entered for the first time in the Monte Carlo Rally,
2nd position was was taken by the Coupe HF crewed by Andersson/ Davenport.
 
4th was a Coupe HF Crewed by Cella/Lombardini.
 
5th a Coupe HFcrewed by Munari/Harris.

During 1967  Fulvia's also took part in five other events. and saw the first outing of the 1401cc prototype.

All facts courtesy of A Collector's Guide Lancia Fulvia & Flavia by Wim.H.J.Oude Weernink

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 13 October, 2011, 11:48:46 AM
my fanalone seats sat on my jumble stall for ages and were given away to a good home for 75 each in good condition.if i find anymore i will be lucky!(http://)

Looks like it might be the same one in one of my photos?

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 14 October, 2011, 06:57:29 AM
and a yellow one in the background of this pic


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 14 October, 2011, 10:51:38 AM
Richard,
Not unless it's been repainted as it's red in my photo :D

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 14 October, 2011, 11:34:10 AM
behind the red coupe i meant


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 15 October, 2011, 05:28:47 PM
if you will  be going for the cutout in the bootlid to accomodate a filler cap i think the cap must not protrude (http://)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Dilambdaman on 08 November, 2011, 10:41:43 AM
Didn't realise they were Fanalone seats! anyone got a set they don't want ;D certainly better up your back than the standard seats.
Brian
8227 8)

Bought my Fanalone minus the original seats and failing to find a set  modified a pair of S2 1600 frames and had them trimmed to the correct pattern.

Robin


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 10 November, 2011, 10:35:36 AM
After drying out in storage for a few months this Fulvia for 2013 is on the move again ...

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DkPCukl8Gz4/TrmvCLZO9PI/AAAAAAAABqg/iScO44WidLQ/s400/DSCN1824%25255B1%25255D.jpg)  (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ynUzACJFJ9o/TrmvWW4jbFI/AAAAAAAABq0/SA2HyXzkEIg/s400/DSCN1822%25255B1%25255D.jpg)

With the help of my mate Colm who sorted out the electrics during the summer, I've got the car running and generally famliarised myself with it enough to develop an attachment to it and an interest in doing something with it for the Fulvia centenary.

The bottom 6 inches of the shell is very poor with almost no sill on one side, rear of front subframe mounting gone and the front of rear leaf spring hanger about to separate from the floor and rear valance and all 4 wheelarches crumbling but otherwise it is complete, original and generally solid, if a bit tatty- and neglected-looking. All of the chrome trims, etc. and the interior are present and in good condition and make the shell more worthwhile repairing as an alternative to seeking out a better one to re-shell it. SO I started to dismantle it. Everything came apart quite nicely and then it was time to remove the engine and subframe in the factory recommended manner ...

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BHkxHbr2T6E/TrmvwTe_SyI/AAAAAAAABq8/TN5mOjxPoG8/s400/DSCN1888%25255B1%25255D.jpg)  (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LFf9V2xUr5c/Trmv_HfnPwI/AAAAAAAABrE/Cctkbw0g1UA/s400/DSCN1901%25255B1%25255D.jpg)

Eventually we reduced it to a bare shell (the dashboard, steering column and wiring loom came out later) ... and a pile of Lancia dust

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TeoU5PNrT3s/TrmxAs7KMGI/AAAAAAAABrk/ZMqXEKBhW2g/s400/DSCN1906%25255B1%25255D.jpg)  (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aOpr95Ifl4k/TrmwyrtfjbI/AAAAAAAABrc/Q2Eg0xe5ykU/s400/DSCN1902%25255B1%25255D.jpg)

My Lancia mate John helped with the dismantling and made up a Fulvia dolly in timber which should be useful for future operations of this kind (there are a few other Fulvias waiting in the queue that this car seems to have skipped) and then it was loaded on the trailer for transportation to Bill Lewis  ....

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mQWystDxEgc/TruV-YfStrI/AAAAAAAABr8/ddnybphaJKk/s400/DSCN1912%25255B1%25255D.jpg)   (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vTUMz2aukFE/TruafwqssHI/AAAAAAAABsE/mUQapTc4KxQ/s400/DSCN1917%25255B1%25255D.jpg)

... so the car returns to within just a few miles of where I got it in Stafford last August! Bill is going to make up wheelarch panels, rear valance, inner/outer sills and other bits and bobs but he needs the car as a template to work from.  Bill also has a friend nearby who is experienced in welding relatively light panels to the relatively light Lancia metal so I thought that having the car stripped might facilitate this work if I decide to go that route after Bill has made the panels.

I am writing from the ferry en route to the NEC Classic Car show and will deliver the car to Bill near Market Drayton along the way .... then off down to the Forest of Dean to collect this ugly sister on the way home ...

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TKanVUgzLNw/Tni5GtEddZI/AAAAAAAABlI/TDYNdovYWEo/s400/rsz_dscn1375.jpg)  (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-q8kSSZj7mkY/Tni5GJBJcQI/AAAAAAAABlA/j3jCmXa6n1I/s400/rsz_dscn1373.jpg)

Never a dull moment in LanciaLand


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: HF_Dave on 10 November, 2011, 11:20:17 AM
Here is a taster of my contribution to Fulvia 2013 - wish me luck!


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: chriswgawne on 10 November, 2011, 03:10:21 PM
Alan,
If it makes you feel any better, Fulvia berlina S1 prices in Italy have risen slightly over the summer I reckon. Is this in anticipation of 2013....or supply and demand.....or old car prices generally?
In any case great news that you are bringing your car (with I think Jacky's old bootlid!) back to life.
Chris


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: rogerelias on 10 November, 2011, 03:42:23 PM
Fulvia centenary   ??? ??? :o


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 11 November, 2011, 08:02:32 AM
I can report that Bill Lewis is a very nice retired man who lives down quite a narrow country lane and who is well accustomed to receiving the owners of exotic and not so exotic metal in need of fabrication. He is also very busy but he showed us his shrinker and gave us a nice cup of tea.

Alan,
If it makes you feel any better, Fulvia berlina S1 prices in Italy have risen slightly over the summer I reckon. Is this in anticipation of 2013....or supply and demand.....or old car prices generally?
In any case great news that you are bringing your car (with I think Jacky's old bootlid!) back to life.
Chris

Or maybe the price of everything in Italy has risen slightly over the summer - I believe it is now for sale as a €3trillion job lot.

Fulvia centenary   ??? ??? :o

Well spotted Roger - you would never think that I had reviewed my post at least twice before finalising it. I guess I am subconsciously giving myself a realistic target for once....



Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 13 November, 2011, 02:13:38 PM
Brian

During the dismantling I thought of you when it came to the top of the front screen ... did you say that you do or don't have one of these black strips over Fay's screen?

Anyhow, it is quite a delicate item with its bulk being foam moulded over metal strips. It is particularly weak at the centre where the outer plastic and inner foam are thinnest and are not supported by metal. it is held on with 4 or 5 wire press clips along its length and by the rearview morror mounting at the centre. It has two bumps that are supposed to retain or position the sun visors.

I recently dismantled a 2000 Coupe which has a particularly nice headlining design. All around the edge of the headcloth runs a strip of pads like this that bridge the gaps from the roof cloth to the door and window apertures. These are full metal shaped panels (probably aluminium) that are just covered in glued-on foam sheet and vinyl or whatever. I am thinking of adapting them for re-use in my Fulvia Zagato which seems to have rather spartan roof lining solutions.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 14 November, 2011, 01:40:11 AM
Brian

During the dismantling I thought of you when it came to the top of the front screen ... did you say that you do or don't have one of these black strips over Fay's screen?

Anyhow, it is quite a delicate item with its bulk being foam moulded over metal strips. It is particularly weak at the centre where the outer plastic and inner foam are thinnest and are not supported by metal. it is held on with 4 or 5 wire press clips along its length and by the rearview morror mounting at the centre. It has two bumps that are supposed to retain or position the sun visors.

I recently dismantled a 2000 Coupe which has a particularly nice headlining design. All around the edge of the headcloth runs a strip of pads like this that bridge the gaps from the roof cloth to the door and window apertures. These are full metal shaped panels (probably aluminium) that are just covered in glued-on foam sheet and vinyl or whatever. I am thinking of adapting them for re-use in my Fulvia Zagato which seems to have rather spartan roof lining solutions.

Hi Alan,
No I don't have one, I had one made about 2000 but it's incorrect and too small, I only had the metal former that is inside and the cover which had more or less disintegrated,  neither of which were of any help in determining the correct dimensions, I realised afterwards (although I should have realised at the time ::)) that the top of the A post trims is the correct contour.
As you so rightly say the reason it's thin in the middle is because of the location of the rear view mirror, I also didn't realise that OPD 37E had the correct part in situ, I've never seen one in any other series 1 Berlina.
I'm hoping to get one made and would greatly appreciate it if you could take some close ups for me of the contours.
Here are 3 not very good photos of of the one I had made which you can see is clearly a lot smaller than the one you have just removed.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 14 November, 2011, 03:02:59 PM
Brian. I will e-mail you higher resolution copies of the photos I took (the two above and a few more). If I strap it to a board to keep it safe I can even bring it with me on some future trip ... though I feel a 2C parts car coming on - there must be a few of those around. Peter Gerrish told me on the NEC stand about his former competition car (running a 1600 engine at one stage) and introduced me to its current owner.

While he has my car as a template and is making up panels for me (4 x wing/arch sections, 2x inner/outer sills, rear valance, possible floorpans), do you think I should ask Bill Lewis to make double of all the panels?

One could make a modest markup on eBay to cover costs but do you think there would be demand - most parts would suit the Series 2  and I am surprised they are not more widely available. I scoured the internet on a picture search and came up with a pair of original full wings but in different parts of Italy.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 14 November, 2011, 07:17:22 PM
Brian. I will e-mail you higher resolution copies of the photos I took (the two above and a few more). If I strap it to a board to keep it safe I can even bring it with me on some future trip ... though I feel a 2C parts car coming on - there must be a few of those around. Peter Gerrish told me on the NEC stand about his former competition car (running a 1600 engine at one stage) and introduced me to its current owner.

While he has my car as a template and is making up panels for me (4 x wing/arch sections, 2x inner/outer sills, rear valance, possible floorpans), do you think I should ask Bill Lewis to make double of all the panels?

One could make a modest markup on eBay to cover costs but do you think there would be demand - most parts would suit the Series 2  and I am surprised they are not more widely available. I scoured the internet on a picture search and came up with a pair of original full wings but in different parts of Italy.
Thanks alan,
The photos will be of great assistance.
Any chance of coming to Brooklands in the spring?
Don't know about plenty of 2c donors/spares cars about, I've never found one advertised and in fact back in 1998 "Fays" Donor car was an early Normale in horrendous, condition that Colin Clamp found for me in Farnborough.
I'll be surprised if there are any about, much more likely is a series 2. some of which is of use, but quite a lot that isn't.
It could certainly be worthwhile getting a second set of panels made but with a view to selling them on the Continent where there are a lot more series 1's about.
I don't know how many 2c's were sold here, but I think it could only have been a handful, even in 2000 there were only 13 on the Register, 8 of which were in Australia, and 4 of those belonged to Graham Ward and his family.
Of the Uk 2c's that I've never seen PYY 169D which was last taxed 1/4/2003 and lived in Highgate London.
SLR 631F was in Sheffield, I've tried to trace the owner with no luck.
JSD 4F the only UK GT that belongs to Alan Borthwick, hasn't been taxed since 1/11/1992, although I understand Alan still has hopes of it returning to the road eventually.
There was a LHD GT/GTE for sale earlier this year.
A couple of years ago there was a LHD Normale the same colour as "Fay" spotted in a car park in London where it had stood for sometime, the person who spotted it tried to find out who it belonged to but when we were last in contact, well over a year ago, he still hadn't been able to trace the owner, but I've heard nothing more since. The vehicle details for ENP 627B are:
Date of Liability 01 02 2003
Date of First Registration 22 02 2002
Year of Manufacture 1964
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 1200cc
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type PETROL
Export Marker N
Vehicle Status Unlicensed
Vehicle Colour BLUE
Vehicle Type Approval Not Available .
Interesting that it was first registered in 2002 and wasn't taxed the following year, I wonder why as it looks fairly good in the photos?

So if anyone does KNOW where there's a spares car, I'm sure Alan & myself would like to know.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 16 November, 2011, 12:31:27 PM
Hi Brian

Somehow I missed your reply of 2 days ago. A parts car would be a good thing as I realised in dismantling mine how easily one could grind to a halt in restoring or re-assembling just for the want of walking across the yard to plunder a part from a donor car. Keep an eye out.

ENP 627P in the London carpark looks like a very good LHD car - I wonder is it still there?

You didn't mention AJH 998C pictured below but perhaps that is because it is also a LHD import. It is currently for sale at Richard Thorne's for £6k and with £10k recent  mechanical bills .

Whatever about the £10k bills, the £6k price tag is a target I would hope not to come too close to in the restoration of my car. I do anticipate spending £3k to £4k  including purchase and transport costs (probably £4k to £5k if I were being realistic and honest) so £6k for a finished car with work already done doesn't seem too bad but it would not be so much fun as doing it myself. But of course is is still a lot more than the car is worth on the open market.

I haven't forgotten the photos of the black strip and I while I do aim to be in the UK on Lancia business in the spring or sooner (collecting or re-locating the 2C from Bill's to elsewhere for further work) I had not considered attending Brooklands. Given the cost of my recent escapades, I think my next visit will be a strictly functional day trip though I would not rule out collecting a parts car....

Alan


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: DavidLaver on 16 November, 2011, 01:47:03 PM

We all know not to get drawn in by ebay photos (don't we?  That black Flavia 2000 HF has been relisted)  but what that grey saloon teaches is that all those  good looking cars on Subito (grandma had it from new, always garaged etc etc) can need a fair bit more than a refresh of the braking system aside from how the import costs can mount up.

Anyone doing a home resto should have a photo of that car on the wall as a reminder of how brown the grass can be the other side of the fence.

David


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 16 November, 2011, 02:50:41 PM
David

Have I missed out on an informed discussion of the recent history of this car since it was imported from Italy or are you surmising on the basis of the £10k?

The import costs for my white 2C are lost in a bit of an accounting haze as it was acquired specifically to optimise the cost of delivering another car to the UK rather than coming home with an empty trailer. I suppose I should strictly apportion some of the cost to the disposal and some to the 2C. And now the full cost of returning it to the UK last week and collecting it at some future point.

My only other significant forseeable cash costs are the rehabilitation of the shell as I plan to do the rest of the work myself, hopefully resulting in a solid, smart and useable car, if not perfect or concours.

So I won't be having it reupholstered or buying any new shiny bits, the current engine seems to work ok and if it doesn't I have plenty of transplant options!

Alan


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 16 November, 2011, 04:10:22 PM
Alan,
I was aware of the LHD 2c in Richard Thornes' and I had emailed to ask could they let me have the chassis number and 1st Registration date so I could compare it to "Fays", but I never received a reply, obviously RTCC had forgotten the times when they rang me as Dedra Adviser for technical information, one way street only it would seem.
Prior to the LHD Normale I wasn't aware of any other LHD 2c's so the only information I could go on was the 2000 Register of Members and their cars.
But it's sometime since I heard from the person who was interested in it, and even an email had no response, so I don't know if it's still in the car park, but it's still on the DVLA records.
I think there was another LHD in pale blue for sale a couple of years ago but I don't know if it was actually in the UK, if it was, I've never seen it.

I see in your photos of the RTCC 2c that it has the mechanism for the radiator shutter on the radiator, but not the cable that connects it to the shutter to open or close it, did you notice if it actually had the shutter which covers the top half of the radiator?
It also has the air cleaner with the Summer/ Winter setting + the hose that goes to the hot air collector on the exhaust manifold, which would make it later than "Fay" who has a straight nozzle to the air cleaner. so I wonder how it got a "C" age related plate, as FAY 224D is the original registration number and she was first registered 1/1/1966.
Perhaps I'd better take myself of to RTCC and have a look at it and determine the Chassis number.

Cost wise, I must be well on the way to the £10K figure, accumalative since I bought bought her in 1997.

Does anyone know of a supplier for the 'Elephant' Trunking for the heater, as mine is in pretty poor condition.

If you are considering the possibilty of Brooklands in the Spring without a car, fly to Luton and come with me for the day in "Fay" :D

Brian
8227 8) 


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 16 November, 2011, 04:38:06 PM
I see in your photos of the RTCC 2c that it has the mechanism for the radiator shutter on the radiator, but not the cable that connects it to the shutter to open or close it, did you notice if it actually had the shutter which covers the top half of the radiator?

Does anyone know of a supplier for the 'Elephant' Trunking for the heater, as mine is in pretty poor condition.

If you are considering the possibilty of Brooklands in the Spring without a car, fly to Luton and come with me for the day in "Fay" :D

Brian
8227 8)  

Brian

I reproduced the photos from the RTCC website.

My elephant trunking was in perfect condition when I removed it last week but I could not persuade my assistant to take a photo of me wearing it as a trunk while standing in the empty engine bay ... I am sorry now that I didn't insist but we were under a lot of pressure late at night to get the car ready for shipping. I saw no trunking at the NEC -  it is a bit bulky for taking along to shows I suppose -  but I should think at least two of the suppliers there would be likely to stock it. Woolies of Peterborough were there and they have a website. For my recent 2000HF re-fit, I used silver trunking (but of a much smaller size) available off the shelf from the motor factors - it was also quite delicate. I should think that a diomestic application such as for an extractor hood might be more robust and meet the purpose if you could either paint it black or put up with it being silver or white.

Thanks for the Brooklands/Fay offer. I know I was all about UK roadtrips by land and air before but now that I have done two in quick succession and at great expense I need to measure my budget cloth. However it may well tie in with my next visit to move the 2C or whatever so thanks for that offer and lets see how it goes.

Alan


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Tim Ray on 16 November, 2011, 08:54:25 PM
Alan   - Ref. Elephant Trunking.   You might be interested in the following supplier on e-bay.
 Item 110650483486  dieselheaters4u.   This is 60 mm diameter but various sizes available.
Company is called Diesel Heaters and Spares . Don't be put off because he is in Turkey. I have used them twice now with excellent service. They speak good English.
Hope this helps.
Tim   


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 16 November, 2011, 11:11:09 PM

Brian

My elephant trunking was in perfect condition when I removed it last week but I could not persuade my assistant to take a photo of me wearing it as a trunk while standing in the empty engine bay ... I am sorry now that I didn't insist but we were under a lot of pressure late at night to get the car ready for shipping.
Alan
[/quote]
Now that I would have liked to have seen!

The fan ducting sounds promising, I'll have to take mine off and have a scout around the building supplies, In fact mine is in 2 halves connected by a piece of underground drain pipe painted black!

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 16 November, 2011, 11:12:53 PM
Alan   - Ref. Elephant Trunking.   You might be interested in the following supplier on e-bay.
 Item 110650483486  dieselheaters4u.   This is 60 mm diameter but various sizes available.
Company is called Diesel Heaters and Spares . Don't be put off because he is in Turkey. I have used them twice now with excellent service. They speak good English.
Hope this helps.
Tim   
Thanks Tim,
I'll have a look.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: nistri on 17 November, 2011, 08:09:05 AM
The late Barry Waterhouse had told me that the trunking is unnecessary because the airbox on its winter setting takes the air behind the radiator anyway and is never too cold. Removing the trunking makes it easier to check ignition timing and does not foul the clutch lever movement. On his advice I removed the trunking from all Fulvias I could lay my hands on  :) (I live in a place where winter is very cold; today there was already strong frost outside home) and I never had any problem with warming up or running a Fulvia. It is however very important to fit a grille muffler to reach 70 degree with the coolant temp. Andrea


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: DavidLaver on 17 November, 2011, 11:39:49 AM

Back up the thread - my comments were only on the basis of the 10K quoted for mechanical work not any additional knowledge of that car.

David


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 17 November, 2011, 04:48:13 PM
I live in a place where winter is very cold; today there was already strong frost outside home) and I never had any problem with warming up or running a Fulvia. It is however very important to fit a grille muffler to reach 70 degree with the coolant temp. Andrea

"grille muffler" =  "bra" in Dutch (apparently).

As mentioned (and pictured) previously, I keep mine in the boot in case I encounter any unexpected peaks at altitude ... though it is, I must admit, unlikely in these parts
.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 13 January, 2012, 01:18:42 AM
Bill Lewis says he has finished making the panels for the 2C so I am to go and retrieve the shell from him and drop off the doors as I think they may need some re-skinning too.

Next on the agenda is to find someone in the UK who can competently fit the panels Bill has made and who can also make up the simpler hidden flat sections of the inner chassis structure that have corroded. And ideally paint it too.

Or maybe I should just buy this one for €4500 ... one owner, 60k

Enjoy this and other interesting Lancias and other classics at www.matulliauto.com (http://www.matulliauto.com)

(http://www.matulliauto.net/image_files_epoca/234FOTO1.jpg)

(http://www.matulliauto.net/image_files_epoca/234FOTO2.jpg)



Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 13 January, 2012, 01:24:33 AM
Bill Lewis says he has finished making the panels for the 2C so I am to go and retrieve the shell from him and drop off the doors as I think they may need some re-skinning too.

Next on the agenda is to find someone in the UK who can competently fit the panels Bill has made and who can also make up the simpler hidden flat sections of the inner chassis structure that have corroded. And ideally paint it too.

Or maybe I should just buy this one for €4500 ...

(http://www.matulliauto.net/image_files_epoca/234FOTO1.jpg)

(http://www.matulliauto.net/image_files_epoca/234FOTO2.jpg)


Pleased to hear Bills finished your panels, but I'd be interested to know how you get on with reskinning the doors.
It Looks nice pity it's a left hooker, although there are plenty of LHD's to choose from, OPD being RHD is rarer and it would be a shame not to restore her after all the work you've put in so far.

Brian


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 13 January, 2012, 01:40:55 AM
pity it's a left hooker, although there are plenty of LHD's to choose from, OPD being RHD is rarer and it would be a shame not to restore her after all the work you've put in so far.

Brian


With the work I have ahead of me on mine I can assure you that converting this one from LHD to RHD would be a walk in the park!

I am thinking I should really seek out a parts car in case I need anything in a hurry during the rebuild. Like the dash bits for example. Apart from those you have already identified earlier in this thread, there must be a few derelict 2Cs lying around in hedges and sheds....

I'll keep you posted on the door panels



Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 10 March, 2012, 03:30:46 PM
Update on developments with my 2C following a modest 700 mile UK Lancia roadtrip last weekend in the company of David Mirolo, Lancia Ireland Club Presidente.....

First we called on Bill Lewis in Staffordshire to collect some beautifully handcrafted Fulvia floorpans for a Fanalone replica project that is also in progress "towards 2013" here  in Ireland. We left him the RHS doors of the 2C both as a token of our appreciation and for fabrication of a few sections.

Bill also presented us with our Fulvia Pedal/Car awards for outstanding acts of Lancia madness.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-s_V_DMwRp68/T1soGdqNokI/AAAAAAAABzo/ut5fa85ZkQs/s400/DSCN2437.JPG) (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Rby6Y6kR_KY/T1sn9uSXEdI/AAAAAAAABzg/OnC8_Co4SV0/s400/DSCN2438.JPG)

Then we dropped the better LHS doors to join the car which is now with a restorer nearby. The doors are needed to align the various wing and sill sections made by Bill and now being fitted to the car along with a rear valance which caused him particular grief as the side of the valance he chose to use as a template was full of fillers and found not to match when he worked his way to the other side:

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-84riB6q0IAU/T1t2--FHV1I/AAAAAAAAB2M/1tDNB6dx-4k/s288/DSCN2448.JPG) (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ORI1kZX1rqs/T1t5V-yyMdI/AAAAAAAAB2k/-YRkSIpnDqo/s288/DSCN2457.JPG)

The corroded sills and arches have been cut away to reveal the inner panels which the intrepid restorer says are not the worst he has seen.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vkYiaUTZnns/T1spHCWmJWI/AAAAAAAAB0Q/g3qq8nP-hEg/s450/DSCN2454.JPG)  

The new wing/arch sections and valance have been offered up to the cut away sections - probably in anticipation of our visit but nonetheless presenting a very effective "wow" factor on entering the workshop!

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1rq9_L2sx8Q/T1soTL1SvgI/AAAAAAAABzw/YzUyKYoDdq4/s288/DSCN2443.JPG) (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jRYRsvDDxf0/T1t2zzStXKI/AAAAAAAAB2E/4PH5IP9eM6I/s288/DSCN2449.JPG)

In the following pictures you can see the new sills made by Bill, firstly in 3 separate sections (inner, outer and strengthening middle section) standing on end beside another sill assembled as a composite box section and secondly being offered up to the car, well, ok, being held near to the car.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mJyhVqnBrzA/T1spYk-azhI/AAAAAAAAB04/1IaNVTr-_bA/s288/DSCN2459.JPG) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-390-jws9eDQ/T1sohUY-nMI/AAAAAAAABz4/-rX3M1Vzq_0/s288/DSCN2447.JPG)

The car is on a tilting frame but still attached to my wooden dolly. It will be moved to a bespoke Fulvia jig made of a subframe and steel joists to ensure it remains aligned during assembly of the shell repair panels.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oWjipYMhgSw/T1so6jDJF-I/AAAAAAAAB0I/auqbGOPOY3g/s288/DSCN2451.JPG) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-STcdOZaS4Vs/T1t5RO-CcJI/AAAAAAAAB2c/mGRahgh3vbo/s288/DSCN2452.JPG)

While there, we took the opportunity to finish dismantling the heater blower, wiper motor and wiring loom complete with fusebox as I had timed out on these final jobs in the scramble to transport the car to the UK last November.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Gx_LmlDgYe4/T1spOF3PuYI/AAAAAAAAB0Y/uOPwKfME5WA/s288/DSCN2455.JPG) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LpDin5HEsFg/T1spRiooXsI/AAAAAAAAB0g/UTni1VQd23U/s288/DSCN2456.JPG)

Then we pressed on southwards to the scene of a previous Lancia encounter in the Forest of Dean .... http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4502.0 (http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4502.0)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: peterbaker on 11 March, 2012, 08:38:29 PM
Glad you still have my Monte stickers on the car. Great stuff. Have you noticed the modified radiator?


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 11 March, 2012, 10:33:46 PM
Glad you still have my Monte stickers on the car. Great stuff. Have you noticed the modified radiator?

Peter,
how was the radiator modified please.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: peterbaker on 11 March, 2012, 10:38:17 PM
Hi Brian, Im afraid it was a job carried out for me although I remember the rear headlamp area was modified. I think a look under the bonnet would reveal all. 


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 11 March, 2012, 11:21:17 PM
Have you noticed the modified radiator?

Only in the sense that it was almost impossible to remove the subframe with the rad in situ as it fouled on the front valance. I usually forget to disconnect something in this operation and this time, even after I remembered to undo the steering, the subframe still wouldn't separate from the  body as it was hanging by the lower edge of the rad.....


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 12 March, 2012, 09:57:17 AM
Hi Brian, Im afraid it was a job carried out for me although I remember the rear headlamp area was modified. I think a look under the bonnet would reveal all. 

What was the object of the modification, increased cooling capacity?

Must have been a right pig of a job to fit it in and take it out as that's a nightmare even with the standard radiator on 2c's :o

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: peterbaker on 12 March, 2012, 10:45:14 AM
I only had a new series three rad.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 20 May, 2012, 03:11:11 PM
Yesterday I got some pics of how the repairs to the 2C are coming along.

Mark has started at the worst corner which is the front mounting point for the rear spring underneath the RHS rear passenger seat:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s9Qb0lQbEIE/T7kFQ6qnUDI/AAAAAAAAB8o/6owY3umCZ1k/s400/lancia%2520sedan%2520003.JPG)   (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FbObD6HB6ls/T7kGQtye9nI/AAAAAAAAB8w/RHqEAPciW3E/s400/lancia%2520sedan%2520019.JPG)

Side view of front mounting point for the rear spring:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LjKzpwnBQR8/T7kHV0q6oSI/AAAAAAAAB9A/K31ECaZSvdY/s400/lancia%2520sedan%2520010.JPG)   (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gKvmEsYzcuE/T7kHf7tH9bI/AAAAAAAAB9I/ONCBRjntwd8/s400/lancia%2520sedan%2520013.JPG)

RHS Sill:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UN54lZ_FhPs/T7kGdOveJZI/AAAAAAAAB84/a4kMXi7ojgA/s400/lancia%2520sedan%2520004.JPG)   (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3-QxwlAIgPs/T7kHsXqTRsI/AAAAAAAAB9Q/pvx23GyzeEs/s400/lancia%2520sedan%2520017.JPG)

Front of RHS Sill and subframe mounting box:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-myua4QUGaqg/T7kJCWm8RWI/AAAAAAAAB9g/zswbEvtnt2Q/s400/lancia%2520sedan%2520021.JPG)   (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tLAsUEzx1mU/T7kJBspzfYI/AAAAAAAAB9Y/9FK_77KSbHc/s400/lancia%2520sedan%2520022.JPG)

Lower inner front RHS wheelarch:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-oFYf4EAbQ18/T7kJC52MfNI/AAAAAAAAB9k/ipc8zobD23Y/s400/lancia%2520sedan%2520023.JPG)

Although the photos make it look even worse than it is in reality, you would wonder whether it was worth embarking on such an elaborate restoration of such a low-value specimen. For less money I could probably have re-bodied it with a good LHD shell and got a load of spares into the bargain. But it is a rare enough car now in RHD form as Brian H points out and it also has a slightly interesting history having been originally bought in Cyprus (hence RHD  but instruments calibrated in Km) and moving via Greece to the UK quite early in its life and with several LMC owners thereafter.

I am hoping that with Bill Lewis' wonderful handmade panels and Mark's skilled repair work that it will be better under the skin than any replacement shell and as good as new!


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 20 May, 2012, 04:16:50 PM
Looking good Alan,
Do you think the inner sill etc are original or replaced previously? reason for asking is that an Auatralian 2c owner found a block of shaped rubber in each sill.

Pleased that you're staying with the original body rather than reshelling.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 20 May, 2012, 10:02:07 PM
Hi Brian

Any lumps of rubber that once resided here are long gone I would think.The inner sills are original but the outers have been done before so we are not the firstto open them up. Maybe there will be some on the other side though as things are not so desperate over there!

I am promised more photos soon - in fact I don't know when these were taken as the guy working on it doesn't do much phone or e-mail stuff so the car could be much more advanced by now!


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: HF_Dave on 07 June, 2012, 07:52:14 PM
The repairs look very good, I couldn't imagine trying to do it myself. I know we talked about buying a Mig welder and having a go at it, but the skill would take a long while to develop, not enough hours in life never  mind a day :) You can't beat experience. It will probably be the best and strongest 2C in existance ;)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: chriswgawne on 08 June, 2012, 08:15:55 AM
Our first Lancia was a Fulvia 2C which had spent its early years in South Africa. I bought it for Jacky from a scrapyard in Shepperton in 1975 I think and it was in very good condition overall. However some work on the sills was needed eventually, maybe a couple of years later (?) and whilst doing this work we discovered pieces of spongy black rubber in each sill which had to have been there from new.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 08 June, 2012, 10:01:12 AM
Our first Lancia was a Fulvia 2C which had spent its early years in South Africa. I bought it for Jacky from a scrapyard in Shepperton in 1975 I think and it was in very good condition overall. However some work on the sills was needed eventually, maybe a couple of years later (?) and whilst doing this work we discovered pieces of spongy black rubber in each sill which had to have been there from new.
I have photos of these that came out of an Australian 2c, I wonder what they were for ???

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: DavidLaver on 08 June, 2012, 10:54:06 AM

Young love eh?   

"So where are we going?"

"I want to buy you a prezzie"

"So why are you stopping the car by this scrapyard...?"


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: chriswgawne on 09 June, 2012, 07:11:52 AM
Are we saying that the pieces of rubber might only have been in the sills of Fulvias destined for far off hot and dusty markets? At the time my dear old Dad thought they might have been there as a barrier to stones rattling around in the sill sections but he and I never we never agreed on this. I havent a clue what they were there for.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 09 June, 2012, 08:38:58 AM
Are we saying that the pieces of rubber might only have been in the sills of Fulvias destined for far off hot and dusty markets? At the time my dear old Dad thought they might have been there as a barrier to stones rattling around in the sill sections but he and I never we never agreed on this. I havent a clue what they were there for.

That's a thought, I've checked the Tavoli and there's no mention of them, another of lifes mysteries ::)

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: neil-yaj396 on 10 June, 2012, 07:10:49 AM
Sound insulation? Or were they meant to fill the cavity and keep out the water they probably soaked up?


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: chriswgawne on 10 June, 2012, 09:14:22 AM
I should also have said that the rubber was discovered in the sills because that was exactly where they had corroded! Presumabky because the spongy rubber held the moisture? A small amount of repair was needed.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 10 June, 2012, 09:20:17 AM
Sound insulation? Or were they meant to fill the cavity and keep out the water they probably soaked up?

Certainly didn't fill the Cavity, here's a couple of photos of them from the Australian car, a series 1 GT not a 2c as I said previously.
They also appear to be made from close cell foam.
Brian
 8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: neil-yaj396 on 11 June, 2012, 06:20:46 AM
Weird, are they some sort of wedge used to help body assembly??


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 11 June, 2012, 07:03:34 AM
Weird, are they some sort of wedge used to help body assembly??
Thats a thought, or perhaps used to seperate partially assembled panels when stacked waiting further operations, although that seems unlikely in my experience; and normally you would use a jig to locate a panel during assembly ???

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 11 June, 2012, 09:57:06 PM
Confirmed no rubber yokes found in my car. Progress report received today re trial fitting of wheelarch repair sections ...

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZQls7HVIoqU/T9Zl_4HKcKI/AAAAAAAAB-o/jF3GBogwAAs/s640/ALAN%2520%2520TRIAL%2520FIT%2520ARCHES%2520001.jpg) (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3almdPkXw_s/T9Zl_vN0POI/AAAAAAAAB-g/rlx1q-GkXgY/s640/ALAN%2520%2520TRIAL%2520FIT%2520ARCHES%2520002.jpg)

Looks like the passenger side inner sill is also done ....

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aH8yx-P3aaw/T9ZmAdkrYnI/AAAAAAAAB-s/8l5VLUGkOD4/s640/ALAN%2520%2520TRIAL%2520FIT%2520ARCHES%2520004.jpg)

I feel a bit of a fraud posting someone else's work that I'm only paying for but I'm sure I'll feel quite differently after I've spent a few hundred hours re-assembling the car myself after all this!


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 11 June, 2012, 11:03:22 PM
Looking good Alan,

and certainly no need to feel a fraud, 'A labourer is worthy of his hire' much better to pay someone who really knows what he's doing as your man obviously does.
Your time will come!

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 17 July, 2012, 07:37:45 AM
No more pictures yet but I've just had a telephone update on progress with this project from Bill who, having made the panels, is sort of supervising the work being carried out by Mark who is sort of an apprentice to Bill. So it seems the Lancia panel-making skills base is being broadened which can only be a good thing.

Bill says he is very pleased with the way the work is coming along. The shell has been transferred from the wooden dolly I made for transporting it and onto a more rigid steel one that Mark has fabricated for Fulvia repairs. A chassis misalignment of half an inch has been detected at one rear corner - not surprising when you see the twisting angles to which it was subjected in its short time as a historic rally car (picture elsewhere in this thread). Not surprising either when one considers how critically weakened the bottom 6 inches of the shell were - including in hidden places. This can't have been much better 4 years ago when the car was rallied!

My target for completion of the repair work to the shell was next month (August) but that seems unlikely now. However it is more important that the work progresses thoroughly and that nobody loses heart so I am quite happy to wait until the chaps have finished in their own good time. I have other windows of opportunity to collect the car in September (LMC AGM) and again in November (NEC) when the ferry costs will be less. I think it was last November's NEC when I delivered it! All going well, I will use the empty trailer run to bring over another Fulvia project shell for Bill to make panels and Mark to repair. Zagato time!

I was sorry to discover that Bill has had an accident and has damaged a disc in his spine quite badly. He is a very strong and active man for his age (he told me he was previously a weight lifting instructor - not sure if that was in the athletic sense or the health and safety one!) but even Homer nods and it seems he lwas moving some concrete fence posts ...... I am sure we all wish him well in his recovery which has not impacted on his good cheer. I asked what drugs he was on and he said it was mainly Jameson.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 17 July, 2012, 08:38:40 AM
Alan,
Looking really good, 100% sure you're taking the right decision of letting the work proceeding at it's own pace, sometimes not always a good idea as you know, but in this case certainly worth it.
What a great job they are doing, and having someone to follow Bill's skills in Lancia panels is a real bonus, but I can't wait to see her finished and restored to the condition she was in when I first viewed at Michael Newberry's picnic, back about 1996.
Keep up the good work.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 18 July, 2012, 09:09:23 PM
Some pictures now to hand. First, the car is now on the steel jig ....

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wGPU19zy-Gg/UAXWyoXWeVI/AAAAAAAACGs/-YxrzXB27to/s450/more%2520sedan%2520011.JPG)   (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VURHufOp3IQ/UAXWylEmihI/AAAAAAAACGk/5PfVrt041z4/s450/more%2520sedan%2520010.JPG)   

The jig was made for a Fulvia Coupe so the subframe that forms part of it fits my sedan at the front but the uprights that attach to the rear spring hangers fall short of the sedan's longer wheelbase so the rear of the car is on jacks for now both for this reason and because ....

In talking to Bill he mentioned somewhat ominously that additional work had been found necessary to the rear chassis rail spring hangers area and was already in hand.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xqOUiFQ8_gE/UAXWuvK-ylI/AAAAAAAACHw/Ycj_0niYMwk/s450/more%2520sedan%2520003.JPG)    (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ywf6EFmFnB0/UAXY0jHh8MI/AAAAAAAACHE/14OJXE__HBM/s450/NS%2520REAR%2520SEDAN%2520001.JPG)

So it seems, out have come the spring hangers along with some of the boot floor and a bit around the area of the rear suspension bump stop ...

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lgzoqhx-zd4/UAXY07Dv32I/AAAAAAAACHI/LIUUluFuoSc/s450/NS%2520REAR%2520SEDAN%2520003.JPG) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mDQYur4D4Mw/UAXY-nOK_BI/AAAAAAAACHc/X0jCN1LvuTg/s450/NS%2520REAR%2520SEDAN%2520002.JPG)

On reflection (and not having seen the car for many months now) I realised that this development helpfully closes off my concern that I would get the car back with all the agreed work done (mainly cosmetic exterior panel work) but still requiring patches to less obvious areas that I had not included in the agreed price. As it would be expensive for me to commission/persuade someone else to start on this work afresh, it is actually a blessing (and very reassuring) that Bill and Mark have identified and addressed this work too. It will stand to me in the long run.



As they say ...you couldn't pay to have this  sort of work done, but it seems that I am.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 01 November, 2012, 10:29:22 PM
Rare verbal update from the restorer today - hidden structural work complete, doors re-hung and outer panels loosely tacked in for fit. Just the final joining of these outer panels and then a few gaps  to be welded up and he says it will be ready to collect at the NEC weekend - yippee! Pics to follow.

I'm going to take a punt on the quality of this, as yet unseen, work and bring another car over for the treatment when I am collecting this one. May as well be hung for a Zagato as a Sedan ....

On a related (Fulvia) note, I de-engined the Zagato this weekend in preparation for transporting it to the UK as mentioned above? I have de-engined quite a few Fulvias but this was the first time, apart from the 2C which is probably rarer than the Zag, that I have had to be really careful on account of the delicacy of the bodyshell and the importance of not damaging anything that might be hard to replace. In the end the front corner of the subframe did mangle the front valance a bit on its way out but the valance needed work anyhow. Seems a tighter arc on the Zagato valance than on the Coupés I've de-engined before.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Bk1ibA0HMqo/UJN-6GO93hI/AAAAAAAACIw/OQvfh62GA9Q/s340/zag2.jpg)

Funny to think of the engine for this alone being worth more than I paid for the whole car in 2005, not to mention the gearbox. Well its sitting outside in all its blue and yellow rocker-covered glory on a trailer down my lane now but I reckon it's safe enough under an anonymous blue tarp ...

We checked twice that we had disconnected/removed everything before lifting the car body off the subframe (pics to follow): electrical wiring, heater plumbing, rad out, clutch, throttle and choke cables, gear knob, steering column, nearly forgot to disconnect the brake calipers .... but can you spot what we DID forget to disconnect? Clue: the thing on the floor behind the engine is an angle grinder.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_T3AH_Kg4KY/UJN-5ztoMcI/AAAAAAAACIo/8P2R4ejiPdc/s340/zag1.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KyjfR4P9g3A/UJN-581Rr0I/AAAAAAAACIs/Gzeou_HEcK0/s340/zag3.jpg)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: davidwheeler on 02 November, 2012, 10:57:36 AM
Yes.


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 03 November, 2012, 10:21:20 PM
Some more 2C pics just came to hand. I thought I was just needing wings and sills but as you can see the bottom/outer 6 inches all around has needed replacing in many areas. I am totally blown away by the quality and detail of the work going on here....

First a pic of the overall extent of the work - sills on, wings tacked on, repairs to inner arches, front rear valances and rear chassis legs:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RDchWHhu6AA/UJWX3AMd94I/AAAAAAAACKM/je80lqflSDc/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520020.jpg)

At an earlier stage in proceedings, here are the outer and inner wings cut away back to good metal:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kiR8wVnQ334/UJWX1hdFzgI/AAAAAAAACJg/_DLsJNj0uRg/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520006.jpg)

New outer sill/cover fitted to align with door gap (work to inner sill shown in an earlier post):

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xVM-_zbtlk8/UJWX2e4ZerI/AAAAAAAACJw/8mc5Q2Vyz5Y/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520010.jpg)

Pratically the whole of both rear chassis legs has been replaced, and new spring hanger mounts inserted:

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gKSnuL1yuAY/UJWX4M1k4oI/AAAAAAAACKg/6Nsr7aw0tP8/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520025.jpg) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AiOggYZTb0c/UJWX6PEwafI/AAAAAAAACLM/QqPHFKx39rc/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520033.jpg)

Outside of lower front corner re-assembled having been partly cut away to repair interior sections (see below) and partly refabricated:

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2KCh5nF9Ptc/UJWX2kNKHYI/AAAAAAAACJ4/EKRFPGa6AmE/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520018.jpg)

Inside of lower rear corner:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-D4QqBfyRZJc/UJWX3T5eErI/AAAAAAAACKI/WrkKdN4Kd8w/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520022.jpg)

Rear bump stop mount (cutaway version shown in a previous post):

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7SqCVczhDO8/UJWX2IGxzpI/AAAAAAAACJo/M3bOGoo9UaA/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520009.jpg)

This must have been the worst corner (nearside rear) - everything in sight is new!

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PucbFDI0GSE/UJWX0V4GtII/AAAAAAAACJQ/WmoE1HJXUNc/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520001.jpg)

Similar story the other side:

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2vQq9w4CrwI/UJWX6hmVSnI/AAAAAAAACLk/zqqfwuL1l9w/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520034.jpg)

Inner rear valance ... with gratuitous factory-effect circles pressed in!:

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cit7TderqPs/UJWX4u3i0QI/AAAAAAAACK0/GM_NVA2w0-0/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520026.jpg)

New corners to boot floor over those chassis legs - look at the curved lip around the edges of the corner sections! These sections are "free-standing" and come close, but are not attached, to the inside of the wing (so small things can fall down into the lower wing corner!):

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-V3G5MLIuIuU/UJWX33iyWjI/AAAAAAAACKc/LmjrjXQYhag/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520023.jpg) (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-82w5AzGwDMs/UJWX7-qbNfI/AAAAAAAACLw/sLpueWzDpFI/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520036.jpg)

And finally, my personal favourite - hows this for attention to detail? The left half of this section has been refabricated, including the original pressed-in "X" shape - I'm guessing Bill Lewis was involved. To be honest, I didn't even have the car long enough to know that this panel existed (floor in front corner of engine bay between wheelarch and front bumper - I don't think there's an equivalent coupe panel):

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jnIu3tkNyFw/UJWX2wUlnII/AAAAAAAACKE/rX9Xpvh3E6g/s400/ALAN%2520SEDAN%2520REAR%2520019.jpg)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 04 November, 2012, 02:12:21 PM
Excellent progress and lovely metalwork.the remains of the "X" on my scrapped Sedan wing 99% filler and rust


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: HF_Dave on 12 November, 2012, 09:50:13 PM
Wow ! EXELLENT progress. Cant wiit to see it in the flesh , or mmm, in the Metal . :D


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 20 November, 2012, 11:24:05 AM
Latest update on the 2C following last weekend's NEC roadtrip is on the Irish Lancia Club site here
http://lanciaireland.freeforums.org/crusty-t48.html (http://lanciaireland.freeforums.org/crusty-t48.html)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: davidwheeler on 23 November, 2012, 02:34:43 PM
This is beginning to look like Old Boot, my Weymann Lambda saloon which I have totally rebuilt apart from a couple of small bits of wood.   It is now a "replica" I guess!   Keep up the good work  (What was that tale about the executioner's axe?)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 05 February, 2021, 06:41:15 PM
I’m back 👋🏻 (Hi Brian)


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: lancialulu on 05 February, 2021, 09:41:57 PM
Hi Alan

Can we see an upto date status of the white 2c?


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: Richard Fridd on 06 February, 2021, 09:51:18 AM
Wecome back Alan, looking forward to updates. Richard


Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: fay66 on 06 February, 2021, 11:22:49 AM
Hi Alan

Can we see an upto date status of the white 2c?
Welcome back Alan, ;D.
Like Tim I'd be interested to know how OPD 37E's Restoration is getting on.
How is your personal Fleet of series 1 Fulvia Berlinas doing?
Brian
8227  8)



Title: Re: Fulvia 2C for 2013?
Post by: LanciAlan on 19 April, 2022, 07:31:36 AM
Welcome back Alan, ;D.
Like Tim I'd be interested to know how OPD 37E's Restoration is getting on.
How is your personal Fleet of series 1 Fulvia Berlinas doing?
Brian
8227  8)

Wecome back Alan, looking forward to updates. Richard

Hi Alan Can we see an upto date status of the white 2c?

Thank you all it’s nice to be back. Due to various other developments, the white car has not progressed since 2013 and is dry stored pending next steps. I’m slightly regretting not having pushed it on for another FulviAnniversary coming up next year but, while it’s the longest on the fleet (purchased to fill the trailer on the homeward journey from delivering Fridders’ Flam to Kent circa 2010) it’s not the oldest (1967). It has been joined by a 1965 2c ex Robin Lacey and a 1969 GTE ex Chris Gawne both of which (cars) have acquitted themselves excellently in extensive European driving.