Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Aurelia => Topic started by: the.cern on 10 July, 2011, 09:15:35 PM



Title: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: the.cern on 10 July, 2011, 09:15:35 PM
I am still trying to get a better balance on the rotisserie with the B20. The set-up is still top heavy so the jig is under load whenever the car is not horizontal. I need to get the centre of gravity lower and propose to remove the screens, they will need to come out sooner or later !!!!

So far I have removed the alloy inserts in the screen rubbers, without apparent damage.  I propose now to release the rubber from the body, both inside and out and then lie in the car and push the screen out using my feet. I am assured that this is standard procedure and by using my feet I will spread the load on the screen and all will be fine. Frankly it sounds horribly crude and brutal and I am anxious to seek either an alternative MO that is more subtle, or at least receive reassurance that I can safely go ahead with the above procedure. This is due to happen Wednesday afternoon so any advice asap please.

Just so that I know the level of pressure I will be under on Wednesday, please may someone advise the availability and cost of these screens for a 4th series B20.

Thanking you in anticipation,

                              Andy


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: fay66 on 10 July, 2011, 10:00:13 PM
I am still trying to get a better balance on the rotisserie with the B20. The set-up is still top heavy so the jig is under load whenever the car is not horizontal. I need to get the centre of gravity lower and propose to remove the screens, they will need to come out sooner or later !!!!

So far I have removed the alloy inserts in the screen rubbers, without apparent damage.  I propose now to release the rubber from the body, both inside and out and then lie in the car and push the screen out using my feet. I am assured that this is standard procedure and by using my feet I will spread the load on the screen and all will be fine. Frankly it sounds horribly crude and brutal and I am anxious to seek either an alternative MO that is more subtle, or at least receive reassurance that I can safely go ahead with the above procedure. This is due to happen Wednesday afternoon so any advice asap please.

Just so that I know the level of pressure I will be under on Wednesday, please may someone advise the availability and cost of these screens for a 4th series B20.

Thanking you in anticipation,

                              Andy

Andy,
Just make sure you have someone handy to catch it ::)
Method suggested has been in use for years so it shouldn't be a problem, alternatively if you have new rubbers you can always cut the lip off and not have to push the screen out.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: Kevin MacBride on 10 July, 2011, 11:11:59 PM
I used a flat (wide) screwdriver to push back the 'lip' on the inner part of the rubber, it was easy enough to push out the screen. However, I ended up having to fit new rubbers as the old ones had so much sealer and dirt from the years that it would have been easier to cut out the rubbers in the first place. At the time (2006) I think new rubbers were 110 Euro each from Cavalitto. Front screens are laminated and are quite easy to crack, rear are toughened and have a little more 'flex'
When I started in the motor trade a long time ago, I always found it odd the laminiated screens are difficult to break when fitted, yet very delicate when free standing. The opposite seems to be true for toughened. Very easy to shatter when fixed, yet quite flexable when out.


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: lancialulu on 11 July, 2011, 06:36:45 AM
Cut out and new rubbers is the way to go. Had same problem with my sport - thought I could reuse but wasnt worth it.

Tim


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: HF_Dave on 11 July, 2011, 10:14:59 AM
Usung your feet works, But like myself I think it sounds a bit crude, I took the rear screen out of my Brta a couple of weeks ago. I used a screwdriver and small wooden wedeges about the size of lollypop (ice cream sticks) to wedge into the rubber and hold it over the lip until i got far enough around poking with the screwdriver that the rubber pulled free itself. Start in the corner and work your way around. I came out easy and I saved the rubber. I was NOT impressed with the state of the metal under the rubber.  :o Thanks David.


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: the.cern on 11 July, 2011, 01:40:50 PM
Thank you gentlemen for your advice, all gratefully received and digested.

The comments about the state of the rubbers made me inspect mine a little more carefully. Decision made, they are so crusty, dry and dirty  that even if they could come out undamaged they are beyond re-use. So, out with the Stanley knife and an of hour of slicing later the windscreen is free and the rear screen is out!!!!!!! I'll wait for assistance before I actually remove the windscreen, I dare not drop that !!!!

Dave, I was very pleasantly surprised by the state of the metal under the rear screen rubber, surface rust but no holes or bits missing. Fingers crossed that the front will be as good.

Thanks again for the advice,

                                    Andy


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: fay66 on 11 July, 2011, 04:17:51 PM
Thank you gentlemen for your advice, all gratefully received and digested.

The comments about the state of the rubbers made me inspect mine a little more carefully. Decision made, they are so crusty, dry and dirty  that even if they could come out undamaged they are beyond re-use. So, out with the Stanley knife and an of hour of slicing later the windscreen is free and the rear screen is out!!!!!!! I'll wait for assistance before I actually remove the windscreen, I dare not drop that !!!!

Dave, I was very pleasantly surprised by the state of the metal under the rear screen rubber, surface rust but no holes or bits missing. Fingers crossed that the front will be as good.

Thanks again for the advice,

                                    Andy

Well done Andy, another job partly ticked off, pleased to hear no major problems under the rubber though.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: LanciAlan on 11 July, 2011, 05:36:38 PM
For the record, and in case a rubber seal can or has to be re-used, I have found that the reverse of the recommended insertion method (below) worked well for removal of my 2000 coupe screens on two occasions so far (once for respray and later to waterproof):

To remove screen: prise inner rubber lip away from frame and insert a loop of electrical flex (twin- or three-core round type used for table lamps and the like) all around the edge to keep it away from the frame - this keeps the resistance of the rubber lip to a minimum all around to ease its removal whereas prising away at a single point runs the risk of exerting greater pressure than necessary on the glass at that point

To re-insert: run the cable around the seal and fit the seal/screen into the aperture with the loose ends of cable hanging into the cabin. Then pull the cable ends into the cabin, thus pulling the rubber lip over the frame. Very satisfying and really works a treat.

I have not yet found an ideal solution to waterproofing the gaps between seal and frame and between seal and glass. I first tried applying black silicone on both seating channels of the seal but it was a disaster and stuck to everything (screen, seal and bodywork!) while I was putting the screen and seal back into the frame. Then a half day of cleaning all that mess up

Attempt 2 was a bit more successful, first inserting silicone between screen and seal, then partly fitting screen and seal to car frame before applying silicone to that gap and pressing the screen home using the cable method. That worked better as the gaps to be filled are not uniform all around so I could apply more silicone where needed.

I think something less gooey and tacky than silicone (maybe bituminous mastic?) is called for - I just haven't discovered/tried it yet.


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: HF_Dave on 11 July, 2011, 08:57:40 PM
you can't use bitiminous mastic with the rubber, it will react and perish the rubber, silicone contains accid and can cause corosion. polyeurothane mastic is the best but is a bugger to remove when set if you want to remove the screen again. A non-setting bedding mastis is probably the best, I used this on my Fulvia. I haven't had it out in the rain yet so it has yet to prove itself. :)


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: fay66 on 12 July, 2011, 01:00:49 AM
Best bet is ask a windscreen fitter, they always used to use a black mastic (Sealastic?) that was applied once the screen was back in, but before refitting the Chrome/plastic expander strip.

brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: lancialulu on 12 July, 2011, 06:56:10 AM
My restorer recommends "windscreen sealer" cant remember the make but in a white/light green cardboard gun tube which I bought (several times) from the paint suppliers. His method is to apply to the rubber seal (outside) before fitting. Its abit messy but works. Care if you have the headlining in but anything else the excess can be easily cleaned off.

Tim


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 July, 2011, 10:59:17 AM

On Wheeler Dealers they always get a fitter in for screens...


Title: Re: B20 Rear Screen and Windscreen Removal. Advice needed please
Post by: the.cern on 13 July, 2011, 07:59:50 PM
The windscreen is out ......... and in  one piece !!!!!!! So I have saved both bits of glass but need new rubber seals for both. Ii have sourced them about 180 each, luckily I was sitting down when that news came through. I had remembered the E100 price in 2006 from a previous post and was not totally unprepared for such a figure, but even so .........

The good news is about the state of the body beneath the windscreen seal, virtually perfect, with reflections from the overhead lamps glinting off the perfect black (original colour) paintwork. The two photos attached do not do it justice. The rear screen situation is masked by the headlining returning over the lip.

I then turned my attention to the two small rear windows, the door seal has been eased out and the seal retaining strip and the outer trim piece have been removed. There is just the tiny little problem of removing the two female screws with the split heads to release what appears to be the window 'hinge' strip. Jim has gone away to butcher a screwdriver ......... he's good at things like that !!!!!!

If you recall the purpose of removing the screens at this stage is to lower the CoG of the bodyshell to help balance it on the rotisserie, please have a look at the outcome in the 'B20 Story' thread where you'll be able to see some more of the talents of Jim.

Thank you again to everyone for the help and advice. The fun of getting the screens with their new rubbers back in is something that I can look forward to with trepidation.

                                   Andy