Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: chrissantry on 14 February, 2011, 06:19:27 PM



Title: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: chrissantry on 14 February, 2011, 06:19:27 PM
Help required please.
The starter motor on my Fulvia has had an intermittent fault but now has stopped working altogether. (wiring all OK) I took it to a Bosch auto electrician as it is a Bosch motor but he was no help as they no longer stock solenoids or exchange motors for this part. I have had the solenoid off the unit but it seems unserviceable.
 Question : Is this Bosch motor a standard fitting for a Fulvia  , secondly has anyone got one a working example for sale or are able to point me in the right direction for help ?
MOT time looming !!
Cheers
Chris


Title: Re: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: lancialulu on 14 February, 2011, 06:23:47 PM
Chris

I assume your HF is 2nd seires. Bosch was standard, and IMO a slightly more robust starter than the alternative Ducellier. A spare starter motor should be easy to source. However have you checked the solenoid on the bench with a battery??

Tim


Title: Re: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: chrissantry on 14 February, 2011, 06:28:09 PM
Tim,
I hope to check it tonight once I have cooked dinner !


Title: Re: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: Neil on 14 February, 2011, 07:45:11 PM
The usual problem is the solenoid, they stick, you were able to get spares at one time for these, a good second hand one might be your best bet.


Title: Re: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: ncundy on 14 February, 2011, 09:34:47 PM
Solenoids are usually standard(ish) and rarely change. When I rebuilt my starter motor I did have a scout round for new ones "just in case" but luckily mine was fine.

I did however find quite a few places still apparently making them. You are looking for a Bosch 0 331 302 051 solenoid.

Most of the stuff I found was in China with a minimum order quantity of 1000!

Fourth one down on here http://www.kopex.com.tw/autoparts/SolenoidSwitch/Bosch%20System-htm/6.htm is an equivalent.

I wouldn't suggest you go that far! But if you can't get a good second hand one it may be worth taking that part number to a Bosch dealer, or an automotive electrician. It's likely the same kit was fitted to old Alfa's, BMW's, VW's etc so specialist in those may be worth a call as well.

Good luck
 


Title: Re: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: nistri on 15 February, 2011, 12:04:38 PM
I am told that the Bosch alternator fitted to the Fiat 128 is a simple replacement with better output. Andrea


Title: Re: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: vigzag on 15 February, 2011, 05:15:25 PM
can supply a used one if still required


Title: Re: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: LanciAlan on 15 February, 2011, 10:37:42 PM
I'm sure others know better about the interchangeability of Fulvia starters but I had a recent experience with the Bosch starter motor on my 2000HF that may be helpful.

My Bosch starter lost efficiency and eventually failed due to wear in the bronze/brass bush(ing) that carries the armature at the business end - i.e. the pointy end nearest the flywheel.

I assumed that a Ducellier starter from a non-HF 2000 parts car that I have (though it could have been from a Fulvia) would fit but, while it did start the engine, it wouldn't disengage!

So I would sound a cautionary note on interchangeability of starters as the number and profile of the teeth on the flywheel may be different across different Fulvia variants too! The Bosch starter is a lot "meatier" than the Ducellier.

The good news is that all this happened in quite remote parts while on holiday last year but, these also being rural agricultural parts, there was a pretty low key outfit in a shed nearby that had a very welcome "Bosch Service" sign (and not much else) outside and that specialised in auto electrical repairs for all sorts of machines and vehicles.

My 30+ year old starter was greeted with some nostalgia but also some recognition. The engineer told me there were "overhaul kits" available for many types of Bosch starter and that he could also have a new bushing machined up locally. I had it back good as new for 100 2 days later. As a precaution, I had the same work done on the Bosch alternator soon after but at a different centre.

So you need a "Bosch Service" centre that is used to repairing rather than replacing!


Title: Re: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: ncundy on 15 February, 2011, 11:24:53 PM
You're right about the fulvia. The S1 flywheels have 104 teeth and S2 flywheels have 126 teeth. Also the fixing bolts on the starter motor have a different PCD and the Fanalones have a mixture of the two and the early fanalones have a different throw as well.


Title: Re: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: chrissantry on 16 February, 2011, 12:00:42 PM
Thanks for all your replies,
 It does appear to be the solenoid as I have taken it off powered it up and no response. The brushes in the motor are sound but worn. I tried a Bosch auto electrician but they tell me this part is listed but unavailable. I think a local auto electrician is needed to see if they have something lying around  in the corner! That is unless anyone has one in their garage .
Cheers Chris


Title: Re: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: lancialulu on 16 February, 2011, 12:14:03 PM
Chris

sent you a pm.

Tim


Title: CAN BE OVERHAULED OR REPLAED BY MODERN COMPETITION UNIT
Post by: angelorange on 19 February, 2011, 10:10:23 AM
Overhaul is still possible by most Auto electrical workshops or you could get a much better (More energy efficient, Higher torque and lighter) unit (LMS 176   Denso 1.4kW) form Luke Motorsport which was developed especially for Fulvias - let him know number of teeth on old unit:

http://www.wosperformance.co.uk/

http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?144676-Luke-motorsport-(wosp)

Pics of unit for my road/racer:

http://web.me.com/ekranoplan/LUKAFOTORACING2/page19/page19.html

KR



Title: Re: Starter Motor HF1600
Post by: lanciab20 on 12 March, 2011, 08:46:47 AM
I got an exchange unit from Omicron.  Fast delivery, and with a guarantee.  Not cheap, but good value in my view.