Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Lambda => Topic started by: williamcorke on 02 February, 2011, 12:41:59 PM



Title: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: williamcorke on 02 February, 2011, 12:41:59 PM
What a find.  I'm sure the price will be astronomical, judging from the 'I'm fishing' copy at the end of the description...

http://www.jameslist.com/advert/242174/for-sale-other-lancia (http://www.jameslist.com/advert/242174/for-sale-other-lancia)


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: rogerelias on 02 February, 2011, 01:19:01 PM
Quite right what a find.  If only... ::) ::)


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: Dilambdaman on 02 February, 2011, 02:29:28 PM
The very stuff of dreams  :)

Robin.


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: williamcorke on 02 February, 2011, 02:43:28 PM
Asking price is 137,500 GBP.  Which is actually less than I'd expected, given the references to barn-find Bugattis and suchlike.

The question is, what would you do with it.  Could it be used more-or-less as is?  Or is it really only static museum-fodder...

I have recently corresponded with the owner of the amazing Vignale B50 that's for sale at the moment (see Aurelia forum for pics etc.), who admitted that his car left him in a dilemma.  On the one hand too original to restore, on the other, too fragile not to deteriorate if subject to much use.

Some Casaro pictures:


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: donw on 02 February, 2011, 06:34:17 PM
Looks like a 7th series, not the prettiest casro.  Would need total restoration no change out of 25000 to 30000. Then worth maybe 150000.

Should be below 100000 unless you are an Italian millionaire!

Don


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: JohnMillham on 02 February, 2011, 07:48:01 PM
Asking price is 137,500 GBP.  Which is actually less than I'd expected, given the references to barn-find Bugattis and suchlike.

The question is, what would you do with it.  Could it be used more-or-less as is?  Or is it really only static museum-fodder...

I have recently corresponded with the owner of the amazing Vignale B50 that's for sale at the moment (see Aurelia forum for pics etc.), who admitted that his car left him in a dilemma.  On the one hand too original to restore, on the other, too fragile not to deteriorate if subject to much use.

Some Casaro pictures:
They told me:- Thank you for your interest in our Lancia Lambda Casaro
 
The requested price is 147,500 GBP

Regards, John


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: williamcorke on 02 February, 2011, 11:32:07 PM
They told me:- Thank you for your interest in our Lancia Lambda Casaro
 
The requested price is 147,500 GBP

Regards, John

[/quote]

Perhaps the price goes up 10k every time someone enquires.


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: St Volumex on 03 February, 2011, 06:12:46 AM
I'd love it, but don't think I could live with that patina...


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: fay66 on 03 February, 2011, 10:20:14 AM
It's worth looking at the original link for lots more photos.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: johnturner on 03 February, 2011, 03:15:59 PM
This looks very like the car that used to belong to Laurence Knouff who lived at Ha'penny Farm in Dundee, Illinois.  A (poor) picture of his car in the sixties is attached, together with a copy of a contemporary Casaro ad for the car.  If this is right, one shouldn't get too excited about maintaining it in its present 'barn' condition since the black paint is almost certainly not original and other contemporary pictures show the cars usually finished in 'two tone' with the screen, rims etc bright plated.  There is a similar car in England, slightly modified, that for years belonged to Charles Hobbs and is now owned by Gerald Batt, photo also attached.

As Don says the 7th Casaro is not nearly as attractive as the early Casaro cars and, for reasons of cost or otherwise, is standard seventh series Lambda as far back as the doors with the torpedo tail removed to make way for a dickey/rumble seat which is impractical and uncomfortable at anything more than about 20 m.p.h. I am one of those that reckon that there are very few special bodied cars better than the standard, off the line, factory Lancias and some (including some Casaros) were appallingly badly made in comparison.

Running cars in 'barn find' condition is a separate issue. It would certainly be possible, if difficult, to restore maintain and run this car in its present appearance and as any VSCC meeting will reveal this is an increasingly fashionable arrangement. It looks like a reaction to the 'Pebble Beach' approach and carries with it the suggestion that you have just completed the Peking Paris rather than fished the car out of its heated storage. These 'feral' cars have not really taken off over here but have an enthusiastic following in Australia, see http://feralsportscarclub.net/LouthRaces.html and http://feralsportscarclub.net/   It may not be too long before we find previously restored cars being suitably distressed.
Come on Andy; how about the first Cor-Ten finished Beta at the LMC concours?

John


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: williamcorke on 03 February, 2011, 03:57:37 PM
Love the 'feral' thing.

On the subject of fake age, professional patination services, or whatever you want to call it.  I remember reading a piece in one of the monthly mag's a few years ago about the 'refreshing' (partial restoration) of James Lindsay's Alfa Monza (ex-Segrave? FYE9??).  The article explained the process that had been used to apply new paint and then age it to achieve the 'dried blood' (my description) effect desired.

Or here's a line from a report of a Gooding auction last year - (http://www.sportscardigest.com/gooding-company-pebble-beach-2010-auction-report/ (http://www.sportscardigest.com/gooding-company-pebble-beach-2010-auction-report/)):
"Later restored by Gerry Sherman in the U.S. and Henry Wessels and E. Dean Butler, most recently restored in 2009 by Scott Sargent with engine by Gary Okoren. Good paint with re-created patina, good upholstery. Sound, sharp historic racing condition. Reported sold by Bonhams at Quail Lodge in 2009 for $557,000"

Bold italics are mine.  The expression 're-created patina' is a curious usage... though it's clear what they mean: it doesn't look too new.



Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: GG on 03 February, 2011, 10:17:56 PM
This looks very like the car that used to belong to Laurence Knouff who lived at Ha'penny Farm in Dundee, Illinois.  A (poor) picture of his car in the sixties is attached, together with a copy of a contemporary Casaro ad for the car.  If this is right, one shouldn't get too excited about maintaining it in its present 'barn' condition since the black paint is almost certainly not original and other contemporary pictures show the cars usually finished in 'two tone' with the screen, rims etc bright plated.  

This is getting too close to home. I knew Laurence Knouff - he was a founding member of SCCA, and a good client of Bill Knauz, who was the closest thing to a kindred Lancia spirit cross bred with an auto dealer. I used to drive up to Knauz's dealership in Lake Forest, where we'd poo-poo the Ferrari's (late 1970's) and enjoy the Alfas and let him sell Mercedes. His dealership went back to his father (I think) who sold Chryslers in the 1930's.... He was one of Mercedes first dealers in the US and managed to corral his first sold MB years later and bring it back to the dealer. Knauz had a small museum (still does) with Alfas and other nice cars in it - including BIll Shakespeare's s. 4 B20, and an Alfa Monza that needed a new block, and seemed way too expensive at $10k back then....for a car that was all apart.

Knauz sent me to see Laurence Knouff, a most gracious older attorney and an old client of his. I went to Knouff's country house, and after a while, we went to an immaculate garage/loft and  visited his cars - a nice Amilcar (later sold to Gary Byrd) , both a P2 and P3 Rolls (large, ivory door locking knobs on one), a Flaminia Supersport, and an immaculate one-owner Flavia coupe (which I sadly passed on some 15 years later.... and still regret).

After looking at the cars and head spinning, he and I went into the house for refreshment. He got a glint in his eye, and said "do you want to see the real love of my life?" - and smiling, he opened up a number of cabinet doors to show his extensive porcelain collection....

And the Lambda? Never saw that. But it was a wonderful visit to a wonderful man. 

 


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: Sebastien on 27 August, 2011, 06:22:05 PM
The unrestored Casaro, 7th series, Car 16140, Engine 6185 sold for 202'800 USD at Bonhams Monterey Sale 18-19.08.2011.
When and where will we see it again, and in what condition?


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: johnturner on 27 August, 2011, 08:22:56 PM
I gather that the car was bought by Tony Paalman, a dealer from the Netherlands who intends not to restore the car but to keep it as it is. 

John


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: davidwheeler on 06 April, 2012, 12:49:36 PM
Does this mean I no longer have to feel a bit ashamed of the condition of my Lambdas?   Even though Sheila was fully "restored" when I bought her, there are now lots of chips and scrapes on the paint and scratches on the leather.  Nothing deliberate of course but acquired through use and clumsiness.  Old Boot is also acquiring patination though she has never been "restored" all at once but as an ongoing project.


Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: Sebastien on 21 May, 2014, 02:21:29 PM
That same car (16140) will now be offered at the Artcurial sale at Le Mans Classic, on July 5th, 2014.
See ad on PrewarCar.

Nothing much has changed since the car sold last at Bonhams Monterey on 18.08.2011 for the then very high sum of 202.800 USD.

Only (major) change is the estimate : 350-400.000 EUR !!  ::)
I shall spare you doing the conversion - with the Euro at 1.3664 USD today this is equal to 478-546.000 USD

(I know this is not quite the way to do it, but you get the idea...). Storage costs must have been very expensive...




Title: Re: Anyone interested in an unrestored Casaro bodied Lambda?
Post by: Sebastien on 10 July, 2014, 02:53:49 PM
That Lambda did not sell!

More storage costs....

And next time estimate will be ....