Lancia Motor Club

Following discussions on the Online database, I am starting a new thread for folk to post technical details only to ensure that these details can be grouped together and be available to all and to prevent duplication.  Please do not chat in this thread unless to correct errors of fact.

Door lock mechanism

Gearbox

"Maintaining an Aprilia" 1

"Maintaining an Aprilia" 2

"Maintaining an Aprilia" 3

Front suspension diagram first series

Front suspension diagram 2nd series

Wiring diagram complete

Is this for Aprillia only, or for all models? if for all models I think it might get a bit unwieldly, so it might be worth opening a new thread for each model technical information, as and when required.

Brian
8227 8)

Each model to its own technical thread please.

Many thanks for the very useful data. Andrea

What is the modern NGK (or Champion) spark plug recommended for Aprilia engines? Many thanks, Andrea

I have used NGK B6S  Ade.

Thanks a lot, Ade. This matches with the info I got but I welcome your confirmation. Best regards,Andrea

Gaskets

I have just had made, to my pattern, a precise head gasket for my Lambda (see Lambda thread) by

E Dobson and Co (Gaskets) Ltd
Springfield Mills
Oakworth Road
Keighley
BD21 1QQ

01535 607257
sales@dobsongasket.com
www.dobsongasket.com


I thoroughly recommend them.  They should be able to make any gasket you need.  Speak to Brian Goodall or Andrew Jeffrey.

Gear cutting

Complete Engineering  (Carlisle)  01228 573358

I have posted recommendations for engine machining, piston ring manufacture, engine balancing, gear making and radiator manufacture on the Lambda Technical Information thread.

David asked me to post the url of my web site here. Please note the information in there is my personal experiences only. There are many out there with far greater knowledge and abilities when it comes to working on Aprilias than my very inexperienced hands.
http://www.narrywoolan.com.au/home/Lancia_Aprilia.html
All feed back, comments, criticisms and discussions are very welcome.

Noel

Owners of S1 Aprilias should find Noel's website of great interest. The combination of photos, drawings and text are a great medium for ex[plaining a complicated mechanical issue while showing off the jewel like qualities of Lancia's engineering. I think this website is a terrific template for the sort of thing that most of would like to do, if we only had Noel's skills. Noel has a big advantage on most of us having had a career in the I.T side of film and television.

Of particular interest to myself, is the list of 1st Series production changes he has extracted from the parts books. I own a late S1 car (38 7308) and have been scratching my head for years trying to make sense of the myriad small differences between this car and the majority of the other S1 Aprilias I am familiar with. For instance there are few parts interchangeable between the front ends on the early and late S1 cars, and you will need different tools to service them. In fact I notice changes to virtually every body panel and many mechanical components.

I will be looking forward to Noel's next update on fettling his car.

Andrew

New wiring diagrams 1

No1

No 2 enlarged.

To supplement the diagram this is the list of what each part number is.
Don't forget also that this is the 1st series circuit diagram, 2nd series are a little different.
Noel

Aprilia gearbox casing.

Gearbox tips.

To remove the gears it is necessary only to remove the front bearings.  After having removed the front and rear plates, remove the locating plug for the input bearing and the rear nut from the layshaft.  Heat the front plate of the gearbox (inside the bell-housing) to 90C.  The input shaft and its bearing should pull out or at most need a gentle tapping on the output shaft to dislodge it.  Rotate the gears until the detent pin 382008 is pointing downwards.  The output shaft may then be pushed out forwards.  Take great care not to lose the detent pin, it falls out inwards.   Now tap gently on the rear end of the lay shaft.  This should dislodge the front layshaft bearing (no retaining pin for this) and the shaft should push through the gears.
There are two types of bottom gear pinion.  One has a 28mm shoulder on one side and is flush on the other.  This goes with a 32mm sleeve.  The other type has a shoulder of 13mm on one side and 17mm on the other.  This goes with two 15mm sleeves.  The total length in either case is 73.5mm.  The bottom gear pinion has thus two possible positions and must be put in the REARWARD position.  The layshaft may be reassembled (note carefully the position of the washer  38.20012) into the gearbox case and the front bearing inserted but not fully driven home.
Next the output shaft may be installed, threading it through the gear cluster.  Some output shafts 3820001 have one spline that is different from the others.  This MUST be assembled in line with the detent pin.  The other version has all the splines the same and is indifferent.  Install the detent pin and retain it in the outer end of its hole either with grease or gravity or the shaft will not go in.  The bottom gear wheel 38.19517 has a different internal tooth which must line up with the detent pin (if you get it wrong there is room to wriggle it round with out taking out the gears.  Similarly, make sure it does not slip round into the wrong place).
Heat the gearbox again and fit the front layshaft bearing (not too tight) and then the input shaft, lining up the groove in the bearing with the hole.  Insert the retaining plug.
Fit the selector rods and locating balls and springs, hold them down with a metal strip and test all the gears.  If you are very lucky, they will all work!

Re-installation.

Make certain the gearbox is in neutral.  In some cars it is possible to install the gearbox with the engine in situ; in others it is not.  Install the gearbox in the car.  (Retain the clutch spinner in position with a rubber band to facilitate engaging the withdrawal fork).
Unscrew the gear-stick from the operating goose neck 58-0152R.  This latter should then slip into place and lie in the neutral position.  Do not try to force it.  Install the spring and retaining cover 38-21504-6,  screw in the retaining screws 38=21507 and only then screw the gear stick back into place.  Attempting to install the gear stick as a whole will displace the selector mechanism and make gear selection impossible.  Check that it works!

Andre Telecontrol Shock Absorber bladders are available from Paul Beck www.vintagecarparts.co.uk.   The dash control bladders are listed under
 http://www.vintagecarparts.co.uk/part.phtml?PartID=3757
and the rear bladders under
http://www.vintagecarparts.co.uk/en/1349~telecontrol+expander+bag+type+HC~2-details/

Currently c. £42 apiece.

Houdaille shock absorber information at

http://reocities.com/MotorCity/garage/1205/hdis.html

This Houdaille stuff is for the other side of the pond. I suspect all Euro applications use castor oil instead of glycerin. If castor oil has been used as original fit then any other fluid mixed with it will turn to a gooey mess and stop the damper from operating...

Tim

Andre Telecontrol Shock Absorbers fitted to some Aprilias.  Full details at
http://web.me.com/noelmacwhirter/home/Publications_files/Andre%20Telecontrol.pdf
Note especially the fluid required.   

Location of the control elements in the car - pictures from BlueSky.

Very useful url also from BlueSky
http://www.narrywoolan.com.au/home/Publications.html

Further pics from Noel of Andre  Telecontrols

That's a hefty looking bit of kit!

Brian
8227 8)

I think Ben Courage will be taking Noel's car for a drive tomorrow and I will be interested to hear what he thinks of the way the shockers damp. Ben has been driving the ex Stainless Stephen car around for the past week or so on the Castlemaine Rally and other adventures. Ben thinks the Stainless Stephen car is very similar to his own car, but the damping on Noel's car is very impressive with no nasty whacks and bangs over speed humps and other road hazards. Mind you it did take Noel a fair bit of fettling to get the car to that standard.

 On a different subject Gerald Batt ran his newly acquired ex Lance Milne 1948 Berlina on the rally and looked to be be enjoying himself. Seven Aprilias appeared on the rally which would be a record although perhaps my bodyless platform chassis only qualified as a half a car, but it did manage a couple of very enjoyable laps of the Castlemaine oval on the Saturday and Sunday. Other U.K Aprilia owners should seriously contemplate a visit for the 2013 Rally.

Cheers
Andrew

I did indeed take Noel's Aprilia for a run when I visited him last week, having driven there in Andrew's.
The first thing to say is how generous and trusting the Australian Lancia owners are! I have now done several hundred miles in Aprilias on this visit, including Castlemaine where there was the usual fabulous turn-out of Lancias, especially Lambdas as well as the aforementioned Aprilias.
Comparing the two cars is tricky as Andrews is still in "shake-down" mode after many years off the road and I only drove Noel's briefly. Both have the familiar Aprilia feel of handling precision and sure-footedness. The initial harshness over bumps in Stainless Steven was improved quite a bit by reducing the tyre pressures from 33 down to 26. Arguably this may still be on the high side as the handbook talks about 21psi! I run my own car at 26 (with 165x400 Mich. X's) as the steering gets heavy for low speed maneuvering at any less than this.
On Noels car the steering,although precise, was heavier than expected and we diagnosed excessive toe-in so it will be interesting to see if it responds to being reset.
On SS there is some vibration at speed that is hard to pin-point with one of the rear wheel bearings being a possible suspect.
Overall both cars perform well but the bigger carb on Noels does give it a distinct advantage.

Finally thanks again to Andrew and Noel for letting me drive their cars and thanks and congratulations to the Castlemaine organisers for another brilliant rally

This is getting dangerously near chat, not what this thread is really for.  However, two technical points.

Tyre pressures.  I run mine at 26psi on 155x400 Michelin X and wear seems evenly distributed across the tread.  I agree, lower pressure = heavy steering.

Andre Telecontrol fluid.  Glycerol as stated in the instructions is actually an early form of antifreeze, now superseded in cooling systems by ethylene glycol (which has a lower freezing point but is poisonous).  I see no problem with using blue or even the more modern orange antifreeze mixtures.  The point is that the working fluid is aqueous not oily.

Just caught this as I have a variety of plugs in my engine (still goes well). Most are B6S NGK's, one is a Bosch W8AC which is definitely wrong, but Bosch equivalent W175T3 is alos available and is curiously like the M.A.B.O. W. 175 T3 in the series 2 maintenance manual.

I think I will stick with the NGK's as they have always worked (as a plug type - not specifically!) well in my fulvias, and they are cheaper.

Tim

Noel Macwhirter has just told me the discs in Andre Telecontrols should be lubricated, apparently lard is the thing!

Second series radiator and thermostat assembly from Noel.

Tallow used to be recommended, but I find common or garden grease works just as well. I have tried soaking the discs in oil, but the wood they are made of isn't absorbent enough.
Regards, John

My radiator was rebuilt perfectly and quickly by http://www.vintagecarradiatorcompany.co.uk/

6v BA20d 35/35 halogen headlight bulbs from
 http://www.totalparts.co.uk/category-261/LLB1048-LUC.html
are much brighter than ordinary ones.  You can pay up to £28 per pair for such bulbs but I bought 4 for £11.59 all in from these people.  You may find them at your local auto-electrician of course.

6v. petrol pump from Flexolite
 http://www.flexolite.co.uk/catalogue.asp
£80 all included, next day delivery.  It works too.

Lancia Blue 1961, Lechler code 121L  (121 is now yellow!)

Aprilia rear spring silentblocks  (from elsewhere on the forum)
 Robush Ltd!!!!

Silentblock  18 34 36 32, that is  ID, OD, IL, OL   They have 7 in stock at £4.60+VAT each. I am not sure about postage, especially to France.

I hope that is some help. Their number is 01473 738569.

The NGK website  http://ngkntk.co.uk/index.php/downloads/   lists B7S which is a slightly softer plug.   I was having trouble with fouling plugs with B6S so I have changed them.  So far so good.

Here is a note, amongst a number that I was given long ago, written by Lancia (England) Ltd.
I shall attempt to write up the others before long.

Paul Mayo

Here is AST Sketch 22 re-written by me from a poor original:
Subject - Assembly Tolerances & Limits of Wear on Liners, Pistons, Piston Rings & Piston Pins

Here is AST Sketch 25 re-written by me, subject "Assembly Tolerances & Limits of Wear for Crankshaft Journals, Main & Big-end Bearings"

Paul Mayo

Next one re-written by me on "Valve Gear, Camshaft & Timing Description, Maintenance, Overhaul & Specifications"

Paul Mayo

Next one is on "Assembly Tolerances & Limits of Wear on Liners, Pistons, Piston Rings & Piston Pins" for the S1 Tipo 97 engine.

Paul Mayo

This one, also rewritten by me is the "LANCIA APRILIA 1st Series - Data & Main Maintenance Instructions"

Paul Mayo

This one covers "LANCIA APRILIA – ARDEA – TIPI 800 - GEARBOX - Locking the Primary & Secondary Shafts",
again re-written by me with additions from other sources.

Paul Mayo

Here is a list extracted some time ago from my master list of AST Sketches, for the Aprilia.

Paul Mayo

Paul
Only just discovered all the fantastic info you have put on the forum. Wow thank you so much, really appreciate it all, keep them coming.
Noel

Cold Metal Spraying can rebuild corroded blocks and heads and replace broken lugs etc in pretty well any metal.  See my post Fingers (and toes) crossed on Lambda forum.   Nick Gilfillan at http://www.cylinderheads.co.uk/ mobile +44 (0) 7768 622448 is the man to talk to.

SETTING TORSION BAR
Measuring from the top of the UJ coupling to the datum line without the transverse spring attatched:
Torsion bar setting on Saloon:
Italian coupling non-greaser = 159 mm
Italian coupling greaser = 155 mm
English/Hardy Spicer coupling = 164 mm
Datum is horizontal line joining shock absorber fixing bolts.
Torsion bar bearing: Lancia 2048307 or 2048056, RIV Tipo 137827 or 5741 – 45 x 78 x 18 mm
Torsion bar bearing currently still available from valter.ferri@ferriadelio.com   I paid Euro 203 for two including VAT and postage.

PROP SHAFT CENTRE BEARING
...is the top one on the list.  It is an unconstrained roller bearing presumably to allow compliance with the old type fabric discs.   The housing is a simple split one that fits onto the bearing and requires gentle heat to release it.   There are felt type oil seals either side.   Thank you to Simon for the info. sheet.

Track rod ends and accessories (see thread on main Aprilia forum).   Also order appropriate sized (14mm) rubber boots.
https://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10912.0    is the thread telling you how it is done.

Fuel gauge sender from Geoff Johnson.

Prop shaft

Images from Simon Ingman

Front suspension.

Brakes and back axle.  Some useful pictures.

Ben type prop shaft disc bushes
 FBNS0822.2023 SEMI BONDED BUSH from  FIBET RUBBER BONDING (UK) LTD  Unit 9 Dale Mill, Hallam Road, Nelson, Lancashire, BB9 8AN
          Tel (01282) 878200   www.fibet.co.uk     sales@fibet.co.uk   Fax (01282) 878201   
   They cost £8.48 each plus vat.  Free postage over a certain amount (which I forget).

Brakes.

https://www.registroaprilia.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/La-pompa-dei-freni-SABIF.pdf
Link to possible alternative brake master cylinder.

Circuit diagrams.