Lancia Motor Club

General => Press/Media: Lancias mentioned, seen or wanted! => Topic started by: ColinMarr on 10 September, 2009, 10:00:47 PM



Title: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: ColinMarr on 10 September, 2009, 10:00:47 PM
I heard on the grapevine today that the BBC is producing a film for Top Gear on the history of Lancia. The story is that cars including Aprilia, Aurelia, Flaminia and all the ‘moderns’ have been booked for a film shoot next week.

Sounds good, but, I also hear that the liaison between the BBC and the car owners has been done through an organisation known as CLS, rather than the LMC. If true, how can this come about? Surely the LMC is the natural reference point for a thing like this!

Colin


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: ncundy on 10 September, 2009, 11:53:34 PM
I also know of this.

It comes about because one club seems to think we still exist in the quill and ink era and another has engaged with rather more modern means of spreading the message and because one club rests on its laurels and another gets out there and uses the collective enthusiasm of its members. I wonder what next years AGM will provide in the way of "progressive strategy"?

I hope that it will at least showcase a positive committee sponsorship of things like the the forum, the members database, the availability of the LMC library and a rather more imaginative way of attracting members.

We have circa 1400 members and an attrition rate of 100 members a year. There are certain fixed costs which need to be covered that are not dependant on membership numbers. The time is approaching pretty quickly when the committee (not the members - who will vote with their feet) have to make some decisions.

It just goes to prove (again !!!!) that its not what you did yesterday but what you intend to do tomorrow that brings reward.

Oh, and a note to the committee - the last lot of minutes that were placed on the forum were in the "Harvey days" (I remember them with fondness  ;D) - when will we see some more ? A small point but perhaps relevant - the troops would at least like to feel the generals are listening, even to the merest moans.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 11 September, 2009, 07:22:57 AM
Yep, I knew of this too and share Neil's thoughts.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: TonyLanciaBeta on 11 September, 2009, 09:42:05 AM
yep me too, I was asked last Fiday to find 3 Beta's

also agree with Neil comments,


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: ColinMarr on 11 September, 2009, 09:42:31 AM
Hands up all those who knew about it and were asked to keep quiet about it, so that the competitor club could gain maximum advantage in putting one over on the LMC?

I despair!

Colin


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 11 September, 2009, 10:56:32 AM
Lets face it, JP is in PR and he's good at this.  Example - last year on this forum we effectively agreed with John Simister that Auto Italia would do a 30th anniversary feature on the Delta, and we being naive, left it there expecting JS or AI to get back to us when they needed us.  Meanwhile JP is tapping up the editor of AI and getting in ahead of us - consequently CLS get the glory, despite the fact that they had to look to us to find the standard 2wd cars (which were incorrectly identified in the article as being CLS members cars - and if we complain about the misrepresentation to AI we just end up looking churlish), and despite the face that we could have sourced better cars than CLS supplied.

But the truth of it is this - we do have too many people in this club, and in positions of power in this club, who are still in the quill and pen era, and embrace change only when 'shown the instruments'.  Meanwhile the people who do grasp new technologies are seen as troublemakers, or wild youngsters to be patted on the head.  Moreover IMHO the presence of the quill and pen brigade in positions of power is the main reason why we have two Lancia clubs and not one, and we don't have JP using his PR dark arts for our benefit rather than CLS's.  And yes, I will go on the committee if it takes that to change things, and we can get a few more of similar mind alongside me.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Harvey on 11 September, 2009, 11:36:28 AM
I'm not sure whether the "wax tablet and stylus" viewpoint still presides in some areas!

Chris for Committee!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: chrislg on 11 September, 2009, 11:53:51 AM
The first I knew about this is when I was approached to provide some interesting ‘facts’ about Lancia in particular the ‘firsts’ (as a previous Press & Publicity Office of the LMC they perhaps thought that they would get some help). I also have seen evidence that when the BBC Top Gear researcher approached a senior member of the LMC the impression he was left with was and I quote “I got the impression that his contacts weren't hugely enthusiastic about helping us out”. Hence the BBC turning to the CLS, despite that I do know that some well known members of LMC as well as the CLS and Lancia specialists have rallied around to supply cars and to help the programme makers put Lancia in as positive light as possible allowing for the fact that we don’t have final editorial control. Before I get jumped on – I am not a member of the CLS and my only interest is to have the Lancia marquee portrayed in a good light.

As for some of those who are supposed to be looking after the LMC and promoting membership – well words fail me – well almost, we miss out on some good publicity because someone or some people it would seem could not to be bothered. Perhaps I should not be surprised!

With membership falling, I think that you would agree with me that the senior members of the LMC and the committee should be doing everything possible to promote and advertise the LMC. One reasonably easy way is to send reports of our events such as the LMC Track Day at Goodwood and the AGM to the leading classic car magazines and press with photographs, arrange for advertising to appear next to articles about Lancia etc etc. But of course that means someone on the Committee willing to take on this role and coordinate our approach to the press or even use VL to advertise for an active Press & Publicity Officer to do it for them! I notice that we don’t seem to have anyone listed as a Press & Publicity Officer in VL any longer, perhaps some on the Committee agree with the view the previous Press & Publicity Officer held when he wrote to quote: “"People who are into cars and fancy a classic Lancia will know where to find the Club." If they do hold such a view then I don't hold out much hope for the LMC's survival!

There are a few (and some of those ARE on the Committee and other hard working LMC members) who want to move the LMC on and improve the service to members and improve its image and standing and are working in their own time to provide just an improvement. Unfortunately there are some whom are content to sit on the sidelines and seem only to want to impede progress (although why I have no idea) the trouble is that such an attitude does nothing to encourage ordinary members to volunteer their services, expertise and time!

I had hoped that with the new members joining the committee in recent years that things would improve, so I was disappointed when I heard that Harvey had resigned (and I don’t know why, frustration perhaps?) and with it his attempts to improve communication with the members via his regular ‘Committee Notes’ – why the chairman did not have the wit to get someone else to (or even take on it himself) and get the committee notes published is beyond me – but it does not encourage one to think that communication with the ordinary members has a high or any priority at all!

Chris


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: ncundy on 11 September, 2009, 12:10:19 PM
Posted twice  :P

Included in post below now !


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: ncundy on 11 September, 2009, 02:53:46 PM
I was neither asked to keep it quiet nor approached by anyone. I happened to be at a party with someone who said they worked for a
production company and were doing some work on it. Couple that with the fact that all the latest magazine tests (and some yet to come) have been put together by CLS, the bullish statements on what they are doing and are going to do + the appointment of John Davenport as their new President, you don't have to be Einstein to work it out.

I also think it is a bit unfair to suggest that there is some kind of deliberate collusion going on. It is a matter of fact that the normal
members voice has been completely ignored over the last few year - in deference to the direction (and associated culture) being driven by a select few. Those with ideas aplenty, professional skills to bring to bear and enthusiasm to burn have largely been ignored, sidelined, obstructed and frustrated at every turn - even when they have already put in many hours of their own time.

When this happens you naturally gravitate to those who appreciate and recognise your efforts. This should not be taken as an opportunity to judge those who choose to share their allegiances (and I suspect these allegiances are moving towards the marque and away from the club), but as demonstration of what CLS do very well.

Whilst the manner of the split may stick in some throats (regardless of the reasons, real or imagined) do not allow that to bias an objective judgement of what CLS are doing. For a small group it is impressive and we should learn from it not complain they have no right to do it. The LMC has no devine right to be the first port of call, we must earn it. When there was no competition we had it easy. Now there is competition and it is pretty good.

Sticking our heads in the sand and allowing the agenda to be driven by legacy personal issues (both in terms of the relationship with CLS and how we treat each other internally) is self defeating and cutting off our nose to spite our face. But this is what is happening.

I suspect that next year it may well be that several of the 100 people who leave will will be seriel contributors to this forum. No doubt some will see that as a victory.

And Colin, thanks for posting in the members section. Obviously those usually too paranoid to respond to "internal club matters" when visible to all will now grasp the opportunity to engage in a proper discussion  ;)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Betaboy2.0 on 12 September, 2009, 08:29:31 AM
I am afraid that I too agree with the sentiments in the above posts. So, for change to happen, more of us "like minded" souls have to put ourselves forward to make things happen. However, it isn't as easy as it seems. After the AGM I put my name forward to be co-opted onto commitee (following the request at the AGM for interested parties to come forward). Since the week after the AGM when my e-mail was acknowledged by the secretary and was being "passed on" I have heard nothing. Not even the courtessy of a phone call, an e-mail or a letter.

Rather than getting dispondent, I think it has increased my resolve to get in there and do everything possible, by whatever means possible to shake the cobwebs out and drive this beast forward. Idealistic?? Possibly, but got to be worth a try. So, all it needs now is to actually hear from a club senior 'official".

On another note, worrying that in my immediate circle of friends who are club members at the moment, 6 have no intention of renewing their membership next time around, as they feel that the club now has both no relevance to their ownership of Lancia and the club has no desire, from the top, to actually drive the marque forward and survive.



Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: peterbaker on 12 September, 2009, 09:25:07 AM
Your wrong to say the 'Club' and I take it you mean LMC has no relevance. It is the original social centre for all Lancia owners and will Im sure support the brand and their buyers into the future. By the way, with the replacement Ypsilon just around the corner plus maybe a Fulvia, the line up of three cars if you include the Delta, plus a general improvement in the economic climate makes a more compelling case for a UK come back.   
The problem LMC faces, is one of old age. Not its members but of the club itself. Had LMC created itself just a couple of years ago instead of in 1948 technology would, as with CLS have been at the forefront of its management style and stubborn Lambda or Fulvia owners (if they exist) would not have had to accept change. And of course use of the internet as a prime means of communication with all its associated cost reductions would also be naturally accepted as would an online regular publication.
Instead of taking stock LMC is dragging its heels, not sure which way to turn. In pure business terms, it lacks leadership. Where is the five year plan, where is the budget, where is the list of jobs to tackle and where are the young volunteers to make these things happen. Here on the forum we have at least two such people ready to have a go. And the committee already benefits from new blood. The fault must therefore lie somewhere in the higher echelons of control who, for reasons difficult to understand are resisting or maybe are incapable of vision. Without change now the LMC will disappear down the plughole.
In closing I have to also say that a club exists for its members enjoyment, they pay their subs and get on with having a good time.



 

     


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: peterbaker on 12 September, 2009, 10:14:55 AM
Continued.....

However, the RUNNING of a club is something different. It needs business attitude. Someone, normally the Chairman, with the asistance of his club secretary needs to hold a firm grasp of the financial situation, understand assets, revenue streams, contingencies, cost cutting, projected income and expenditure. For any advice they should be able to fall back on either the Vice Presidents or the President himself. Between them they finalise a presentation of facts put forward at the next general committee meeting. In other words all who appear listed in Viva Lancia plays an active roll while at the same time fully understanding the situation. An example of this not happening is the complete misuse of the Ted Bates Lagacy. This is no time to waste money on a book. Sorry but there are other ways of presenting a history while at the same time giving Ted the chance to see (if he is watching) how his not insubstantial amount of money has helped secure the clubs future by investing in technology. And why is LMC paying to have certain tasks carried out that should be cost free? For goodness sake, save the money and instead spend it training committee volunteers to make them more effective. Anyway, I have said enough.
LMC needs to trust the next generation and give them the freedom and the budget to effect change. There is no other way. And to pre-empt the obvious comment, yes, I would be willing also to help.     


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Martin D on 18 September, 2009, 05:54:17 PM
It would appear that the Top Gear researcher initially contacted several people, one of whom contacted Paul Baker and suggested Paul got in touch with TG which he did straight away. A list of required cars was established and Paul spoke to a number of suitable car owners the next day at the Italian Club event in London and over the following weekend. The response from car owners was rather negative; can't do it that soon/midweek, it's too far to go, not letting Clarkson near my car, Top Gear don't like Lancias etc.

On the following monday, Paul spoke to the researcher again who was no longer interested and although vague, seemed to think he had enough cars from other sources.

So it would seem that a lack of enthusiasm on the part of ordinary members of LMC led to this situation, although if YOU had been asked would/could YOU have made your car available?
Ironically some LMC members cars do appear to have been provided via CLS contacts!

I suggest we should learn from this and instead of calling for a post mortem and blame apportionment exercise, which won't achieve anything, why doesn't somebody volunteer to compile and maintain a list of people with cars who are prepared to make them available for media requests. Appoint 3 or 4 people to also keep the list or put it somewhere on the forum/website so that in the future we all know where we have a one-stop contact list.
This sounds spookily like a Press & Publicity Officer's role so how about one (or two) of the critics out there volunteering to take on that very important job. If we'd had someone in that post who'd fostered good links with the magazines and tv programmes things might have been different.

Let's also keep this in perspective, if the programme shows Lancia in a good light then we will probably benefit. There may be a small reference to CLS in the credits but who reads those? and there may be a face in the crowd that only lancisti would recognise, so what? If you google lancia club uk we come up first !


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: ColinMarr on 18 September, 2009, 06:26:11 PM
Martin,

A timely first post – welcome to the Forum!

Of course, had the opportunity to offer cars for the event been posted on the Forum the result might have been different. No doubt some members would not want to lend their cars, but some might. That is one of the beauties of the Forum - it gives almost instant access to the membership at large, or at least to those that have signed up to it.

Like you, I hope the programme is good and shows Lancia in a favourable light.

I am sure you are right in saying there is an opportunity for members to volunteer to take on jobs like Press Officer etc. But, isn’t the onus of responsibility on the committee to let the membership know where there are gaps and where particular skills are required?

Colin


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 18 September, 2009, 06:51:28 PM
Hi Martin,

A very simple solution is to add an attribute onto each car on the MCR system "Available for Media/TV/Magazines?" : normally the value is blank but a member could set it to "Yes". In this way ANYONE with access to a club database could get a list of potential vehicles (and see any pictures of them). This could even be expanded to take into account geography so you could say "any fulvia that is red and has a 1.3engine and is within 50 miles of manchester" ...

MCR could publish the list onto the Forum too and it could also say what isn't available for media as well as what is eg: there are Delta S4 models available.

There is NO computer programming work required to add the attribute onto MCR , it'd be available immediately and members could opt in their vehicles if they want to.

We could then all become potential press and publicity officers (although I think a pro active (small) team would be a good thing and the Forum is the best place to co-ordinate).

Steve



Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: lee69 on 18 September, 2009, 07:58:36 PM

This sounds spookily like a Press & Publicity Officer's role so how about one (or two) of the critics out there volunteering to take on that very important job. If we'd had someone in that post who'd fostered good links with the magazines and tv programmes things might have been different.


I thought we had a Press and Publicity Officer, if not why has the post not been offered to the membership to fill?


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: peterbaker on 18 September, 2009, 08:46:04 PM
Im not sure what Martin is saying here. When the new Delta was launched we, LMC, definitely had a Press Officer, he upset the more influencial of magazines with clumsy accusations. Very clever. That he no longer appears representing the club is maybe no bad thing. As a committee member Martin should know whether we have a P/O or not, as indeed so should the members. Also Martin seems to be blaming members for not responding, but where was the appeal, certainly not in V/L, or on the Forum. Bit of a secret then between Paul Baker and his friends maybe? Im sorry but none of this adds up. CLS cannot be blamed for the outcome. See you at RallyDay tomorrow.       


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Philm on 18 September, 2009, 09:49:22 PM
If there was an appeal for cars, who on this forum knew about it? I certainly had no knowledge. Anyone else?


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: DianaW on 19 September, 2009, 08:34:41 AM
As Membership Secretary, I often get requests for cars for photoshoots etc but invariably these requests are left until the very last minute. 

However, the Membership System can produce reports on all cars which have been registered by members although I am afraid that colour - apart from Limited Editions - is not always shown, and condition has never been requested either.

If anyone does require a list of cars for Club purposes for a specific area I can supply this.

Diana Williamson
Membership Secretary


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 19 September, 2009, 09:18:04 AM
This episode highlights a number of things that, as a club, we need to fix.

Firstly, too many at the top of the club still rely on an 'old boys club' type network, which means that a lot of the membership, who might be able and willing to help in all sorts of ways, are excluded, deliberately or inadvertently.  Like all such ways of working, it wastes huge amounts of talent simply because it isn't plugged into that network - we need to broaden our base.

There isn't the instant thought to get a request like this on the forum.  It isn't a panacea, but it can help.

Thirdly, the MCR is critical, especially if its flagged with information about cars available for the press.

And finally, CLS are running rings around us on press and publicity.  Not surprisingly they are good at it, because JP is in PR, and the membership and leadership of the club are very 'new media' savvy.  But I'm quite sure we have capable people in our club - we need to put the call out and give that post the resources and attention it deserves - it is our way out to the rest of the world outside our pond.  And if no-one else is forthcoming, I'll chuck my hat in the ring - I'm not at all sure I'm the right person, or have all of the necessary skills or contacts (I haven't read and inwardly digested the works of Machiavelli, so I'm going to be at a disadvantage against the competition... :-*), but its better than having no one in post.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: neil-yaj396 on 19 September, 2009, 02:16:21 PM
As a newish member I just want to add that the club has missed a big opportunity here. Whether you love or hate Clarkson he has been a lone (but of course loud) voice in the British media in his support of Lancia, and a Top Gear programme devoted to the Marque is a massive coup for all Lancia lovers in this country. That the club is not part of this is unforgivable!

Incidentally I had never heard of Club Lancia Sport until this thread started up. I checked out their website which seems exclusive to quattro and Fulvia owners, but hats off to them for getting involved in this in front of us.

The committee need to discuss this. We must improve if the club is to survive in the long term.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: DavidLaver on 19 September, 2009, 11:02:12 PM

I've tried not to get drawn in - and please no offence if I withdraw and don't comment again.

Something not to miss is that if it wasn't for CLS the show might not have happend at all.  Hats off to them - I'm grateful for their efforts.   Likewise the Curborough day they run - I can't do it this year but I like to know it happens and that I might get a chance at it another year.

For sure as they show the way forward (in some regards) its dumb not to follow - but better they exist and do this stuff at all than not.

David


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: peterbaker on 20 September, 2009, 07:59:47 AM
Does Chris have time before the committee meeting on 27th Sept to put his name forward to take on the role of Press Officer? I would, as a receiver and sender of news help him establish a network and would be pleased to feature LMC news on my motor sport website. BTW. Rallyday was fantastic for Lancia with thirty cars on display (CLS with LMC members joining in) and many ex works rally cars both static and demonstrating. Around twenty of us enjoyed the freedom of the circuit with a five lap session for a modest £20. John Davenport officially became President of CLS and I have now stepped down. 


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 20 September, 2009, 11:15:25 AM
Does Chris have time before the committee meeting on 27th Sept to put his name forward to take on the role of Press Officer?

If I take on this role I want to be sure that:
- There isn't someone better qualified and suited to the role, already within the club;
- That its an appointment which has the support of at least enough members to have some degree of mandate and democratic validity;
- That the committee and the club know what they are getting...

Given that, I'd take it on, and Peter - I would appreciate your support.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Philm on 20 September, 2009, 01:36:19 PM
Good luck Chris, you deserve everyones support.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: David Bieda on 20 September, 2009, 02:22:42 PM
I gather that the call from the BBC came to Paul Baker on the same day as our Italian Lancia event where he did ask people who were there and by the time he got back to the BBC on the Monday it had all been sown up which is an absurd time scale.

However I do think that all members with emails should have been notified that weekend - of course those without emails would complain but the only other option would have been VL which would have taken weeks.

I don't know all the details but this would have been a decision by individual members with the LMC's overall support. Clearly we were not quick enough on the mark - IF there had been time to be so which I don't know.

David Bieda


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: peterbaker on 20 September, 2009, 03:14:23 PM
Paul, if he had the authority, should have given an immediate response while on the phone. YES. Deal done. The fact that this did not happen shows there must have been some doubt as to the beneficial outcome to LMC. The organising side  would have fallen into place and CLS would have been happy to co-operate and supply cars if required.     


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: rodney3010 on 21 September, 2009, 05:23:39 PM
I've read with interest the recent postings on this subject as i have recently returned to the club after a few years away. Unfortunately the content of Viva Lancia seems to confirm why i gave up membership originally.
However, whilst I applaud many of the recent sentiments expressed, at the risk of upsetting anybody, i do have a question. Apologies in advance if this has been discussed before (I haven't had time to read all postings) but if change is needed then change to what? In other words, whats the objective? What's the vision for the future? For example, in five years time, what will the LMC be offering it's members? At the risk of sounding like a trainer in the classroom, without a clear set of goals then little will be achieved.
Again, profuse apologies if this is old ground but I sense a certian amount of frustration matched by my own. I love old cars, Lancias in particular and want to see the marque survive. Without wishing to sound melodramatic but it seems the next few years will be important to the classic scene in general and therefore our club.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: peterbaker on 21 September, 2009, 05:50:35 PM
Rodney, you raise an interesting point. Change is required only in as much that for the Club to remain a leader with a strong social centre/support system for owners the management need to embrace avaliable technology and new ideas. This I think is what we are openly discussing. Trying as ordinary members to pass on some ideas. By finding ways of running the Club more efficiently the committee and officers are more likely to guarantee its future. It is also possible by making savings to divert income into other areas such as magazine and activitiy subsidy to enhance membership. Running a club after all is a business and although the discussion can sometimes get rather hot everyone is making their point for the very best of reasons.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 01 October, 2009, 09:20:22 PM
http://www.vpcuk.org/forums/showthread.php?p=260719


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: TonyLanciaBeta on 01 October, 2009, 09:42:39 PM
the bad news  >:( http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/mytime/Gear-drops-secret-episode-Neath/article-1352148-detail/article.html (http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/mytime/Gear-drops-secret-episode-Neath/article-1352148-detail/article.html)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fay66 on 01 October, 2009, 10:47:10 PM
That's about all the shows good for, just amazed people keep watching these idiots, I see James May managed to crash a airship with a caravan slung underneath at 2mph, pity they didn't charge them for the chaos it caused to traffic on the A428 between St Neots and Cambridge.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: andymc on 02 October, 2009, 08:02:27 PM
That's about all the shows good for, just amazed people keep watching these idiots, I see James May managed to crash a airship with a caravan slung underneath at 2mph, pity they didn't charge them for the chaos it caused to traffic on the A428 between St Neots and Cambridge.

Brian
8227 8)

I am no fan either Brian but just looking at the cars they took, there is no way they could do something totally negative and remain credible amongst car enthusiasts.

There will definitely be some mickey taken out of the brand and no doubt comments regarding rust but I think it will be a positive feature.

I was with the chap who owns the Fulvia a couple of weeks ago and he showed me an e-mail he had had from the TG production office thanking him for the use of the car. They made some really nice comments how everyone had really enjoyed spending time with it.

Playing with fire really but fingers crossed.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: lee69 on 02 October, 2009, 08:19:55 PM
Not the most informed of petrolheads are they Volvo owners! 034? Evo 3? I won't mention the different spelling of integrale! Just being a pedant, I'm missing not being a teacher anymore.

I really like the Fulvia 3 'HF' in the pics, having seen it many times for real, but it's a shame they couldn't find an authentic HF or even better, a Fanalone.

I'm looking forward to this episode. I'm sure there'll be some significant forum traffic at 9pm on that Sunday!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: lancialulu on 03 October, 2009, 07:31:05 AM
Do we know what the scheduled time on air is?

Tim


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 03 October, 2009, 02:32:00 PM
I think around the end of November - as the Stratos owner needs to have the engine rebuilt and it's going to be in the studio - check out the stratos super site forum where there are details.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: peterbaker on 03 October, 2009, 08:00:00 PM
The Fulvia HF lookalike is actually a Monte Carlo limited edition I think.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: ncundy on 03 October, 2009, 08:15:40 PM
It's a Fulvia "3" in the style of a Monte Carlo, not an original. A very well prepared one too.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 23 October, 2009, 07:40:21 PM
We may just have done our own bit of business around this for the BBC - watch this space!  ;D  I can take no credit at all - others got the call and sorted it, so well done to them.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 23 October, 2009, 09:16:20 PM
S'good then.

As an aside this series (series 14) is being shot in HD ...


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Neil on 22 November, 2009, 04:28:43 PM
Details of episode 3 on the BBC Top Gear website for the 29th November   ;):

'Motoring news and views with Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond and James May. Jeremy and Richard settle the thorny issue of which company has, above all others, made the greatest number of truly brilliant cars. James has a novel solution for getting caravans to campsites without clogging up the roads, and Jeremy hits the track in a remarkable replica of a legendary rally car. Plus Radio 2's Breakfast Show DJ-elect and all round petrolhead Chris Evans is the Star in a Reasonably Priced Car.
CREDITS'

Presenter  Jeremy Clarkson
Presenter  Richard Hammond
Presenter  James May
Star in a Reasonably Priced Car  Chris Evans
Executive Producer  Andy Wilman

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00p4z1y


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 22 November, 2009, 08:20:53 PM
That's encouraging then. Chris Evans is on too ... that'll please Warby !


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: St Volumex on 23 November, 2009, 03:48:58 AM
Could somebody please record this episode, as in South Africa our Top Gear programme is well behind the times?  ::)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: andymc on 23 November, 2009, 10:09:58 AM
Can you access BBC iplayer on the internet in South Africa? It will be on that next week.

Not sure if you can only view it in the UK.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Harvey on 23 November, 2009, 10:27:56 AM
Send me an e-mail with your address, Guy, and I'll pop a DVD in the post next Monday.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: chugga boom on 23 November, 2009, 11:19:47 AM
if the i player idea doesnt work i could record it onto dvd but no idea if it would play in south africa because of all these region 1 region 2 bands and pal etc  ??? send me a pm if you cant get the bbc i player


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 23 November, 2009, 11:55:54 AM
if the i player idea doesnt work i could record it onto dvd but no idea if it would play in south africa because of all these region 1 region 2 bands and pal etc  ??? send me a pm if you cant get the bbc i player

I bet Guy is sufficiently internationalist to have a multi region DVD player and doesn't have to worry about such things...!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: St Volumex on 23 November, 2009, 01:07:48 PM
Send me an e-mail with your address, Guy, and I'll pop a DVD in the post next Monday.

Harvey,

Many thanks for the kind offer, but please keep the disk until I get to the UK when I'll send you my postal address.

SA's postal (theft) service is dreadful, but we do have multi-regional DVD players here thanks Chugga.  ;D


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: TonyLanciaBeta on 25 November, 2009, 08:29:27 PM
A couple of pics  from the Top Gear studio today


http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonysphotos/sets/72157622875982688/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonysphotos/sets/72157622875982688/)

sorry about the  poor quality, they would not allow use of a DSLR



Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Neil on 25 November, 2009, 10:12:40 PM
Thanks Tony, nice shot of me and Dale!  It will be interesting to see the finished production on Sunday evening.... :D


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: chugga boom on 26 November, 2009, 12:24:50 AM
cars look excellent  ;)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: St Volumex on 26 November, 2009, 07:51:13 AM
I'm looking forward to my DVD for Christmas.  Well done chaps!

I hope that the programme ends with some decent PR for Lancia's reputation, and Jeremy NOT saying something daft like a Korean car was better, or that he'd rather prefer a petrol Range Rover.  ::)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: SteveGales on 26 November, 2009, 07:47:29 PM
Tony, Stuart and all

What were the general comments from Clarkson and the boys? Or are you sworn to secrecy till Sunday!

Steve


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Neil on 26 November, 2009, 07:59:57 PM
Lets say some models were favoured more than others and Marina drivers need to take care of pianos...


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: andymc on 26 November, 2009, 08:41:04 PM
Lets say some models were favoured more than others and Marina drivers need to take care of pianos...

On the whole was it positive Neil?

Come on, you can put us out of our misery, you're amongst friends!

Just wondering whether to get all my friends and family who don't understand my, admittedly borderline psychotic, infatuation with the integrale to tune in and watch or do something else. ???


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 26 November, 2009, 09:59:34 PM
I think they should.
But it's on forever on Dave and I'm guessing it'll also be on YouTube too soon after.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: TonyLanciaBeta on 26 November, 2009, 11:06:15 PM
Sorry chap's

lips sealed  :-X





Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Warby on 27 November, 2009, 07:42:25 AM
i prefer it to be a suprise i like suprises, well within region. cars look fab and im sure no matter what is said there will be some positive to gain from it. oh roll on sunday.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 29 November, 2009, 10:06:53 PM
Enjoyed that :) Could've been worse, shame they didn't feature more of the older cars.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Jai Sharma on 29 November, 2009, 10:07:32 PM
Yes, I loved it


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: chugga boom on 29 November, 2009, 10:12:21 PM
enjoyed it but i think at times they were a bit harsh, especially some of the comments about the hawk  :-\, overall a good result though in recognising the marque for its achievements that WE ALL ENJOY  ;D


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 29 November, 2009, 10:30:22 PM
It was about what I expected.  Its an entertainment show, not a serious car show.  Hawk aren't happy apparently.  And I imagine that Stuart is wondering why he bothered...  But at least there was mention of the technical firsts, the motorsport history, and some decent stuff about the Fulvia and Integrale.  But there was so much more they could have done if they hadn't been arsing around racing the HPE against the Marina and making crap jokes about rust.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Joanna on 29 November, 2009, 10:31:08 PM
Only 9 comments , cause every time I tried their website or email was down, It would have been 10 then  :P

Anyway maybe just me but I thought it was a bit sarcastic, only car really favoured was the grale and maybe the fulvia and stratos, but OMG they kicked into the Hawk a bit, and I was thinking of getting one at some point.
Anyway typical TG tongue in cheek stuff, but it could have been better.
Carlos
And fiinally looks like they dont like the new delta either  :(


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: stuwilson128 on 29 November, 2009, 10:43:13 PM
Quote
And I imagine that Stuart is wondering why he bothered...

You are quite right, Chris. 

It must be remembered that prior to me arriving, they had never even seen a new Delta, and the fact they didn't even bother to drive it didn't help matters.  After being there, I stand by my opinion that Clarkson is an idiot.  I discovered that Hammond is full of his own self importance.  On the upside, James May is the nicest person you could ever wish to meet!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: chugga boom on 29 November, 2009, 10:50:13 PM
but atleast the cars are recognised as "the greatest!!" technically on paper my dedra is a badged up fiat, but drive it its NOT!! i knew there would be comments about rust clarkson always takes the p**s out of lancia for it and in all fairness who actually takes him serious?? I for one dont! stuart i sympathise and think they were out of order with alot of their comments,


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: donw on 29 November, 2009, 10:59:03 PM
Overall a bit of a curates egg.  But they missed several firsts! Theta first european car with electric lights & starting as standard, Lambda first unitary body independent front suspension and v4 engine, Augusta first fully monocoque saloon body, although they mentioned the first v6 engine why was there no B20?

All in all the usual light weight populist entertainment dumbed down BBC.

Don


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 29 November, 2009, 11:20:38 PM
I agree that an Aurelia would've been good to have on. But it was a LOT of coverage in one episode and a very memorable lap. I think the benchmark is probably other people's opinions - which , I guess , we'll find out at work tomorrow ....


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 29 November, 2009, 11:29:05 PM
Only 9 comments , cause every time I tried their website or email was down, It would have been 10 then  :P

Anyway maybe just me but I thought it was a bit sarcastic, only car really favoured was the grale and maybe the fulvia and stratos, but OMG they kicked into the Hawk a bit, and I was thinking of getting one at some point.
Anyway typical TG tongue in cheek stuff, but it could have been better.
Carlos
And fiinally looks like they dont like the new delta either  :(

Hawk may be annoyed, but I imagine an awful lot of people will have found out tonight that they can own a Stratos for sensible money.  I imagine their sales may actually go up.  I was talking to the guys from the Morris Marina OC at the NEC, and they have seen membership increase since TG got at them...


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: andymc on 29 November, 2009, 11:31:17 PM
And it introduces Lancia in a positive way to the under 25's and that has got to be a good thing. T


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: stuwilson128 on 29 November, 2009, 11:36:57 PM
To add to my comments before, I spoke to the production crew after the shoot.  They said that it was always going to be about the classic cars.  Bearing that in mind, I suspect there would have been similar comments if I had turned up in a Fulvietta!  I also pointed out that their comments would probably have been different had they actually driven the car first.  The researcher said they would keep it in mind for possible future.  The question is whether I would let them have the car if they approach me again; I somehow doubt it.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 29 November, 2009, 11:40:17 PM
We could do with a "hit counter" on the web site ... it ought to be red hot ....


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 29 November, 2009, 11:51:29 PM
We could do with a "hit counter" on the web site ... it ought to be red hot ....

I'm very glad we are largely members only.  After the Marina programmes, the owners club site was swamped with new members leaving abusive messages.  The great British public, doncha love 'em?  They're what keeps TG popular...


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Dilambdaman on 30 November, 2009, 01:10:23 AM
On balance more good than bad and it made me proud to be a Lancisti, so many notable achievements. Shame about the gratuitous bashing, although that was to be expected but the treatment of Hawk and Stuart's car was totally unfair.

Given Clarkson's previous track record on Lancia it seems that he may be coming round to recognising what we already know. Get him along to an AGM!

'No publicity is bad publicity' and if, as is likely, people Google Lancia, the LMC is right there at the top of the first page.

Robin.



Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Scarpia on 30 November, 2009, 09:15:31 AM
It was about what i expected and definitely better than ballroom dancing which is the only other programme on the bbc these days it seems.

Of course it was tongue in cheek but we may just come out of it as lancia fans as idiosyncratic and a bit cool after this ((And thats what we think ourselves anyway about lancia ) which does more for the image than Richard Gere poncing around in the desert for no apparent reason in the delta ads.It will at least have caused people to think about something they had long forgotten...
shame they simply repeated the sketch over the monte- brake problems .Hammond did exactly the same as clarkson did last time they covered lancia.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: lee69 on 30 November, 2009, 09:16:00 AM
Looks like they broke the real Stratos as well as the Hawk: http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/tg-series-14-lancia?VideoBrowserMode=categories&VideoCategory=OutTakes


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: DavidLaver on 30 November, 2009, 09:26:45 AM
Sara chuckled that I was one of the nine.  She always knew it was something of a specialist interest...  It will have got Google humming this morning as people try to pick apart the facts from the gags.

I think Hawk got great PR - everyone knows its an exact replica, the price, choice of engines, and that the Alfa V6 isn't seen as "second best" even to a Dino.  Anyone sitting in one and thinking "these peddles are a bit odd" and "shame they couldn't arrange the dash properly" will understand that that's how the originals were.  They got a lot of air time, and it was memorable.  Stigs lap wasn't so different to some rally DVDs I've got...

Of course I'd have put an Aurelia in the show - but when they filmed here (our house doubled for the mother-in-laws in the spoof VW add they did last season) it was all too apparent that, for all the success and budget, even for a long "high production values" insert like that, the show is rather thrown togeather at the last moment.  Even my five year old called the researchers "boys" and they found us as a location the day before the shoot which was the day before the edit and voice over.  You'd expect them to give themselves a bit more time on research but its simply not a "hi-brow" sort of show with that sort of researcher.  On balance I'd rather the quantity of shows than only make half as many but slightly better.

As for the gags they're going to irritate the grumpy old men but they have the kids in stitches and make it watchable for mum - and without it having "something for everyone" the TV would be on another channel.

I thought it was a good episode.  Last week in Romania they seemed bored.  This week we got genuine enthusiasm and joy at the way the cars looked, sounded, and drove - some genuine fear in the Hawk - and Stig gave us a show and a half, not seen him like that since the Caterham.

For me it was a lot better than feared - for all "of course" we all could have done better.

David




Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Dilambdaman on 30 November, 2009, 10:16:54 AM
Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating!

8am this morning and my Thema is booked in for an MOT. Been using the same testing station for many years and always without fail get a bashing for being a Lancia fan. BUT! not this morning! Just grudging acceptance that perhaps I wasn't such a twit after all and actually knew something they had, in their extensive experience, failed to realise. The guy doing the test actualy whispered to me that he had always like the Thema. Drove home with a pass certificate and an ear to ear grin.  ;D

Good post David, just the right balance.

Robin.
P.S. Shame that only 9 of us voted. :'(


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 30 November, 2009, 10:48:34 AM
I did vote but got rejected - perhaps they set anything with "Lancia" in the text to bounce back :)

As always David, that is a great post. Very well balanced.

I've got favourable comments too. Joe Public seemed to have enjoyed it.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fay66 on 30 November, 2009, 11:00:52 AM
It was about what I expected.  Its an entertainment show, not a serious car show.  Hawk aren't happy apparently.  And I imagine that Stuart is wondering why he bothered...  But at least there was mention of the technical firsts, the motorsport history, and some decent stuff about the Fulvia and Integrale.  But there was so much more they could have done if they hadn't been arsing around racing the HPE against the Marina and making crap jokes about rust.

Doesn't sound like the shows changed much since the last time then, can't be bothered to watch and boost Clarkson's ego.
What was anyone expecting from Him anyway??? I certainly wouldn't have put my pride and joy his way.

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 30 November, 2009, 12:33:55 PM
It's cartoon television, almost a parody of itself - for me it really disappeared into its own orifice about three series back and lost me then.  It does seem like a series that is probably due a refresh - its got a bit stale, repetitive and wrapped up in its own little world.  There's a place for it, or something like it, since it allows a car programme to sit in a peak time entertainment slot.  You don't watch it to find out much about the cars, beyond the most superficial of details (they actually did quite well last night in shoehorning in some facts).  What we don't get, at least apart from on the cable channels, is anything that takes a less lowbrow approach to cars, the industry etc, as you'd find in one of the motoring weeklies or monthlies.  That's a shame, since I retain at least a little bit of the Reithian expectation from the BBC - to inform and educate (which seems to be OK to do for natural history or history, for example, even in prime time) as well as entertain.  Not either/or, but both.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Warby on 30 November, 2009, 12:52:16 PM
I echo all the mixed emotions expressed here but on the whole see the positives that can be drawn from it and just incase i ever forget them im sure i can watch it over and over for eternity on DAVE!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: DavidLaver on 30 November, 2009, 02:03:50 PM

Got feedback this morning from an Alfa fan - we got a much better deal than they did and better again than Maserati. 

He also said last night had a very "old school Top Gear" flavour - there were bits such as the drive in the Integrale that could have been straight from a William Wollard Top Gear - likewise the shots of the Aprilia cutting to the 70s rally footage then to the cars they were going to drive.  They put some real effort into explaining what made them special, while with the Alfas it was just "we love them for reasons the producers will never understand".  The rally footage was great to have in there.   He felt they conveyed a real passion for cars in general, and that any Lancia will trigger that passion in ways that the mass market sludge never will.

Their stunts also need to be respected.  Its so rare to get a live action "1970s Bond movie" stunt even in a block buster feature film.  Just the Beta's bonnet set loose over the roof was a properly dangerous stunt, let alone the airship landing on its side.  My mum's paper (Eastern Daily Press) reported a crash into some houses, maybe near the airport when doing that "clearly a setup" sequence.  They take proper risks for our entertainment.

The Top Gear audiance at large are now going to be asking "what makes a Gamma a great car" and "how come a Fulvia cost more than an E-Type" and pondering "there must be something very special in there to win all those rally championship".  That's all to the good.

My Alfa friend was remembering the first time (knee high) he saw a Monte parked up in London and remembering the particular dark blue of a Beta Coupe he used to walk the long way round to see on his way home from school.

He thought the kit car was fab - the point was that they're fine if James May builds it from box fresh parts, not so good if Jezza does it from scrap with a hammer.  He also remembered the Caterham lap as the last time Stig had been so "on it" and how a car like that (real or replica) is more like a speedway bike where an expert can get four times the pace from it than the man in the street who's more than likely going to injure themselves just look at it.

...of course they should have had a Lambda on the show, and for me the Aurelia Mille Miglia story can't be retold too often...

There's a buzz from it - and general comments that it was one of the good episodes.

David


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: ncundy on 30 November, 2009, 02:22:24 PM
Chap at work who is into cars wanted to know more about Gammas this morning. Quite a few people talking about the lap and another knowledgeable chap enquiring if he spied a Fulvia Zagato in there somewhere.

Pretty good overall I thought. It'll be along time before we get exposure of that magnitude again - lets capitalise on it.

Bit rough on you tho' Stew, just towing the lazy "it's not an Integrale" type opinon peddled by some.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Dilambdaman on 30 November, 2009, 03:26:10 PM
I can understand the dismissive attitude of some but honestly, when did Lancia get anything like this amount of coverage in any sort of programme. It was never in the time allowed going to tick all the boxes for us but was way better than nothing. Like it or not, (and I'm no fan of the programme or it's presenters) TG generates a big audience (a lot of my non-motoring interested friends watch it purely for entertainment) and the evidence on the street this morning is that interest in and appreciation for Lancia has had a boost. Oh, and it cost the club nothing!

I doubt any serious petrol heads watch it in the hope of gaining any truly un-biased opinion or useful information. However, fact is, that the programme will have whetted a lot of people's interest and that can only be to the good.

I for one, would like to thank very much those who were prepared to subject themselves and their pride an joy to a situation that could have had a far worse outcome. Hats off to you all.

Let's enjoy our '15 minutes' of glory!  8)

Robin.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: DavidLaver on 30 November, 2009, 04:31:47 PM

I want to swap "mega poster" to be "one of the nine"  :-* 

David


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Mike8v on 30 November, 2009, 04:38:07 PM
Like most of you have siad it was good to see Lancia's name back on the TV, Obviously some of the comments were a little (Like a slap in the face) but overall it has given us some decent coverage, Especilaly when they pointed out that Ford and Subaru had only won the rally chapionship 3 times Where as ( sitting with a smug look on my face  ;D ) Lancia have done it ten times, which will deffinatly make people think a bit more now about rallying.

Id imagine that the Internet will be buzzing with people looking up lancia info or checking out the fleabay to see whats available.
One of the forums I use  Retro Rides Has already shown a lot of interest for us.

Oh and Does anyone know where the test on the Integrale was done because Im almost positive that it was done up on the black mountians which is just up the road from me  ;D  Good road that one.

Mike


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 30 November, 2009, 05:08:48 PM
Hi Mike , yes it was in the Black Mountains. It appeared on the Volvo forum some time ago (look for volvo, lancia, top gear and I'm sure you'll find the pictures of the cars on the trailers).

If you could send us the location of the road it may be worth a trip at some point (as I'm just on the other side of the old severn bridge)

Steve


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Mike8v on 30 November, 2009, 05:20:40 PM
In order to get to it you have to drive rite past my house and theres no way Id let you go up there without me  ;D

Basically its 25-30 mins from juction 45 on the m4  easy to get to.  One of the best drives Iv had was over the mountians and up towards lampeter

Go on google maps  Type in      Gwaun Cae Gurwen      or simple copy and past  follow the yellow road ( oh yellow brick road ;) ) north through Brynamman and there you go
As u probably figured this is where I live ^^^^

Would be cool to organise a day out but ONLY if its DRY

Mike


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Paul Greenway on 30 November, 2009, 05:24:59 PM
I thought the TG programme was a positive for Lancia & the Club. Recognised by JC & Co as the greatest marque of all time is a great coop and can only raise our profile. Of course the dreaded R word was mentioned, did anyone really think it would go away?
However it is nothing that has not been said before or will be said again. All I know is that I got no grief from my mates/collegues, only recognition that I maybe not as daft as they thought and perhaps what I have been telling them for the last 22 years might just more than hold an element of truth.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I don't think Stuart will be too disappointed on TG's view of the new Deltas appearance, he knows the positve response he received at the NEC and the fact he could have sold his car 10 times over.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: peterbaker on 30 November, 2009, 05:26:39 PM
I also cringe at what seems purile attention seeking activities by Clarkson. However, one has to consider where the future members of LMC are going to come from. It would appear from the audience viewing figures that the twenty somethings revel in their antics and hold the trio in awe, even respect, god help us. If exposure to the brand gets youngsters interested enough to go one step further it must be worth the pain.
As they say, no publicity is bad publicity.  


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: ColinMarr on 30 November, 2009, 07:26:56 PM
It’s on BBC iPlayer now and I have just caught up with it. Overall I think Lancia came out of it very well. The longer the Hawk HF bit went on the more I want one!

Yes, there was a Fulvia Zagato in there briefly, right at the start with the cars driving in the rain – pleased to say it was mine! What a pity they didn’t make more of all that filming (four hours no less!) and barely a glimpse of the Flaminia.

Colin


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 30 November, 2009, 07:38:21 PM
The programme has certainly given Lancia some good publicity, just look how many more 'Guests' have been veiwing the Forum since Sunday night!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: lee69 on 30 November, 2009, 07:55:38 PM
Looks like a few Alfa owners have got the hump  :'( http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/other-marques/198140-is-it-april-already-tg-must-think-so.html

Best quote must be "the Delta looked like a box on wheels" - whereas the Alfa Arna looked like....? Let me think a bit  ::) I know, a Datsun with an Alfa grille.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: SteveGales on 30 November, 2009, 08:03:45 PM
Just to add my thoughts, pretty much as expected and overall probably a shot in the arm for the marque.

The treatment of the Stratos replica did I must admit make me wince, not only from blowing up the engine on the Stig's lap but earlier on when Clarkson was driving it and the wiper blade folded back and he then proceeded to turn it on! I wonder if the owner needed a new screen as well?

Pretty much guessed that they wouldn't have driven Stuart's car and thought the comments (in the style of the WW2 pilots on the
Armstrong and Miller show)...well harsh! Paul's right though the reaction to the car at the NEC both this year and to the one we had from Italy last was almost universally positive. So Jeremy, you three...' are all wrong'!

Did think the Evo looked particularly good on those roads, Steve/Mike wouldn't mind a run out on them either .
Steve

P.S Hope you've decided to keep the car now Mike


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: rogerelias on 30 November, 2009, 08:41:55 PM
Well i did my bit for Lancia today, :) left for work earlier, and got the 1600 HF out of the lock up and went the long way to work, through town and noticed in the mirror more than a few people pointing at the car. so there i did my PR bit.  ::)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 30 November, 2009, 08:44:31 PM

Pretty good overall I thought. It'll be along time before we get exposure of that magnitude again - lets capitalise on it.


Never fear - the press release went out over the weekend!  Perhaps another one is due now we've all seen it, but one has to be careful with these TG chaps as they do get a bit rude about car clubs...


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Mike8v on 30 November, 2009, 08:48:08 PM
Just to add my thoughts, pretty much as expected and overall probably a shot in the arm for the marque.

The treatment of the Stratos replica did I must admit make me wince, not only from blowing up the engine on the Stig's lap but earlier on when Clarkson was driving it and the wiper blade folded back and he then proceeded to turn it on! I wonder if the owner needed a new screen as well?

Pretty much guessed that they wouldn't have driven Stuart's car and thought the comments (in the style of the WW2 pilots on the
Armstrong and Miller show)...well harsh! Paul's right though the reaction to the car at the NEC both this year and to the one we had from Italy last was almost universally positive. So Jeremy, you three...' are all wrong'!

Did think the Evo looked particularly good on those roads, Steve/Mike wouldn't mind a run out on them either .
Steve

P.S Hope you've decided to keep the car now Mike


Well Im not sure taking the transit (booo) up the mountian will give me the same thrill as the grale would, specialy when chucking round cucu bend  ;D (the tight hairpin up there)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 30 November, 2009, 08:51:14 PM
How about a special on the website - "other great cars you didn't see on top gear" ?

Just seen the gritter go by :(


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 30 November, 2009, 09:16:12 PM
The more time goes on, the more I think we've done well.  All publicity is good publicity, there was a lot of appreciation there, and as many have said, that's probably put the marque in front of an entire generation who knew nothing about it.  By the standards of TG, we've been given a good run.  A colleague of mine today said that though TG is getting tired, that was, in relative terms, a good one, and one for the enthusiasts.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: stuwilson128 on 30 November, 2009, 10:21:18 PM
Just got home from work, and I have to say that given the comments made about my Delta, my colleagues gave me less grief than expected.  They all said that they were disappointed at the time given to my car.  Most of them seemed to like the Fulvia and appeared impressed that I have one in the collection!  A lot of the comments referred to the pile of rusty parts.  It had been noted by a few of them that Clarkson had made the same joke about 10 years ago when talking about a Beta.

I also had colleagues come up to me asking if I saw the programme, and were somewhat surprised when I told them I was there with one of my cars   :D

The lap that was shown of the Stratos was in actual fact the second lap that the Stig did.  I think in total, he did about 30 laps.  He got progressively quicker as he got used to the handling of the car.  I believe that the quickest time achieved by the car was much faster than that which was announced on the show, but in the interests of "good" television, they wanted to show the Stig losing control of the car!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: frankxhv773t on 30 November, 2009, 10:33:04 PM
I am in the "any publicity is good publicity" camp. I have lost count of the number of times I have told young (and even not so young) car enthusiasts that I drive a Lancia and they respond "You mean a Lancer" and then professed complete ignorance that any such marque as Lancia exists. I shouldn't think so many people have been exposed to the glory of Lancia since they last won the World Rally Championship. It is remarkable that TG could make a case for Lancia being the greatest car maker in the world whilst barely having to delve back further than the Fulvia. If the TG team had looked properly at the achievements of Lancia's first half century I think their tiny brains would have exploded!!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: andymc on 30 November, 2009, 10:53:36 PM
The great thing about it too is that the enthusiasm was so clearly genuine from the presenters. They are not renowned for their acting skills!

I must admit I have watched the integrale footage several times and its a fantastic bit of film with a great soundtrack. Really quite dramatic if you turn up the volume on the telly.

The comment about Stuarts car will have passed most viewers by and I think it is always going to be something that divides opinion as it is genuinely different to anything else.

I have had no less than 4 e-mails today asking "was that your car on TG last night?" and some real enthusiasm shown by colleagues who wanted to know more.

People not in the know are now better informed and people in the know have had a "refresher course." it's just about as good a result as we could have hoped for.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 30 November, 2009, 11:00:31 PM
I watched it again and it is great footage and I got asked if mine was the same as Simon's integrale.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: St Volumex on 01 December, 2009, 07:31:19 AM
On the subject of Clarkson's Beta rust comments 10 years ago, he was caught using a wooden magnet, and the BBC finally issued a reluctant apology!  ;D

Still, the best our satellite pay TV service can offer us here last night was an old Top Gear programme with Lewis Hamilton as the guest, way back when he was still Alonso's team mate.  ::)

"...Back in the USSR, you don't know how lucky you are..."

Sorry Stu about the time afforded your Delta - it deserves a lot more than that.  I should know, as I drove one here in South Africa.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: lancialulu on 01 December, 2009, 08:49:03 AM
Guy and all overseas I think it is now on youtube.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMQZeVNKzw8

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMQZeVNKzw8

Enjoy!

Tim


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: DavidLaver on 01 December, 2009, 06:03:45 PM

The eternal "what if..."   Be interesting to know what Stigs best lap was as well.

http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=7703

While I'm happy they showed the "most entertaining" lap, wouldn't it be nice to see a lap after its been setup by Stig to his taste....

David


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: DavidLaver on 01 December, 2009, 06:10:20 PM

Meanwhile:

http://www.stratossupersite.com/lancia-stratos-video-pure-engine-sounds/

These made such an impression on me as a kid - the RAC coverage on the TV - helicopter tracking shots along the edge of a forest - the one with the back hanging off.  I can remember making a mechano one with an electric motor and cardboard body and chasing it round the garden adjusting gears to hazards.   

As a teen I sat in a replica at a motorshow and just couldn't imagine trying to drive it with that peddle offset - it was almost a relief to have it off the wish list.

All the same I agree with Colin that the longer that Hawk was on screen the more I fancied one...

David


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: rikardo on 01 December, 2009, 07:10:12 PM
And of course, there's the BBC's own iplayer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00p4z1y/Top_Gear_Series_14_Episode_3/

It was quite interesting at work. A couple of the usual "They rust don't they?" (yawn!).
But more talked, asked about, Fulvia, Stratos, 037 and integrale. Not altogether surprising.
All in all, a pretty good result, really.
Of course the rust debacle will take an eternity to die here in the UK, thanks to the Media. Which leads me to doubt their return, but you never know. It would be like coming back for another bloody nose!
But you won't catch me buying a FORD or VW or BMW as a replacement. Neither, unfortunately, will I be buying anything LANCIA has produced this Century. And that's a sad state of affairs.
Which brings me to my point.
I think that TG really do like LANCIA, but from its (Motorsport) past. And there, I have to agree with them.

Meanwhile, I trust that as many of you as possible took your LANCIA to work/for a drive/etc. on Monday. I certainly did.

Happy motoring!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: SteveGales on 01 December, 2009, 07:33:25 PM
And here's what a very young looking Jeremy Clarkson thought in 1994. Not much has changed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knpp6_fO_4E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knpp6_fO_4E)

Steve

PS The sound needs to be turned right up to hear it.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: jimb on 01 December, 2009, 07:48:27 PM
Thanks Tim

Just in time for me to add the links into the Cape Lancia Club Newsletter.

It's a pity that they had to try and balance every good point of the cars with a bad one.

Jim


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 01 December, 2009, 09:24:14 PM
Jim

I think that what the way the article was presented : each car is fantastic but flawed - therefore each car needs a flaw ....

I think, given the lack of knowledge of the cars by most people, they've all liked what they've seen. Anyone with a preference isn't going to change their moind I guess. Nobody has mentioned the R word to me yet tho ... which is nice.




Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Neil on 01 December, 2009, 10:19:13 PM
Since the broadcast of the 'Lancia' TG episode on Sunday I have been totting up all the cars that were used for the filming and the studio filming last Wednesday, I was surprised how many different cars were used, only one used in more than one part of the show, 19 in all.

In order of sequence on TV:
London filming (brief intro section in cine film): Stratos, Fulvia Zagato, Fulvia coupe, Flavia coupe, Flaminia and Gamma coupe.
Wales:  Aprilia, Fulvia coupe, Stratos, 037, Gamma coupe, Montecarlo, Thema 8.32, integrale, Beta coupe and Beta HPE.
Studio: Fulvia coupe (as per Wales), new Delta, Stratos (Hawk) and integrale (not seen on the broadcast but in the studio).

I hope I have not missed any out, in all this is a pretty good selection of cars, it is shame they did not drive some of the cars which were static in Wales, possibly they were filmed, but that footage was unused, our London filming took about 4 hours, but about 15 seconds were used.  Perhaps less racing around in a Beta HPE and Marina for demolition purposes could have been used to show these and other models such as Lambda, Aurelia, Appia and may be S4 and the 037 in action!  (that would require suitable drivers I suspect)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 01 December, 2009, 10:44:46 PM
That's a long list then ...

I was going to add in the two Betas into our Online Database : can anyone tell me the extact models and registrations (and colour would be good - I'm colour blind :)) ... ? Useful for future vehicle enquiries , all part of the story ....


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Dilambdaman on 01 December, 2009, 11:25:21 PM
Agreed David, although I was a bit more than a kid! The two Stratos experiences that stick in my memory were one, Entering the Earls Court Motor Show and there elevated and on a turntable was one with a fluorescent light inside and you could see every detail of the light through the door skin so thin was it. Secondly, Clipstone Forest on the RAC Rally waiting for the Stratos and the adrenalin rush as it passed in the dark a couple of feet away. The euphoric reaction of the spectators was unforgettable. Margaret went misty eyed recalling the experience on Sunday evening. OK, that might be a tad exagerated but she did recall the experience un prompted by me.

Incidentally, we followed the rally that year in a 1963 Ferrari 250GTE. Those were the days.  8)

And I'm with those who have a Hawk high on the wish list. I've had a hankering to build a kit car from when I could first drive. In those days it was an Austin 7 Hamblin Cadet. Anyone remember them?

Robin.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fay66 on 01 December, 2009, 11:36:53 PM
And here's what a very young looking Jeremy Clarkson thought in 1994. Not much has changed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knpp6_fO_4E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knpp6_fO_4E)

Steve

PS The sound needs to be turned right up to hear it.

Only goes to, proves once an ignorant self opionated pillock, Always an ignorant self opinionated Pillock.
I don't suppose anyone has pointed out to him that wooden magnets don't work, probably a bit too hard for him to understand. ::)

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: DavidLaver on 02 December, 2009, 12:37:35 AM

Sorry I'm off topic (I'll blame Robin) but for Austin specials these are my two favorite sites:-

http://www.1950sspecials.com/home.htm
http://speedexa7.users.btopenworld.com/

Building one was a great experiance, and perhaps more than any other car it can claim the "go kart feel".   Its nippy: the proudest moment was beating a Metro 6R4 over the first half of the Crystal Palace sprint.  The disappointments were the lack of steering feel, lack of throttle steer, and it falling apart the whole time - within a season or two I had an Aurelia, and that Hawk "straining at the leash" and the growl of that V6 brought back some very happy memories.

Looking ahead (getting my motivation up for the project) can anyone reassure me that a hot Aprilia engine will snarl?   With  light body on it it should have some pace, the gear change and steering and brakes should be fabulous, the balance shouldn't be too bad and on thin enough tyres it should be possible to squirt it about but how will it sound...?   Hot Fulvias and Appias sound lovely - is there a fundamental difference?

David


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Scarpia on 02 December, 2009, 09:32:16 AM
With my failing eyesight I cannot determine if the heap of rust in the start of the clip was indeed a Beta.Most unlikely i guess. But who can see what it was...it would nicely undermine (as a joke ) the whole rust discussion, if it turns out to be a bmw......and a bit uncomfortable voor TG also.....


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Dilambdaman on 02 December, 2009, 09:54:03 AM
Nice one William, that would be fun.   8)

Could we sue TG for trade descripsions?  ;D

Robin.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Dilambdaman on 02 December, 2009, 10:39:21 AM
Specials.

Wasted an hour or so of my valuable time this morning wallowing in the nostalgia of it all - I blame David. Just reading down the list of suppliers made me all misty eyed. The Super Two (whose name I couldn't remember) was the Ford based one I lusted after.
 
My father had a Ford 10 delivery van which he was going to scrap and I did all the research and project design to use it as a basis but somehow leaving school, starting work and girls (Margaret was her name I think) got in the way and nothing came of it.
 
Nearest I came was to fit an Aquaplane IOE conversion kit and various other mods to the Ford 100E I was running at the time. Went through clutches at an alarming rate as I remember. Then I bought a Lancia and the rest as they say is history.
 
Now, can I find a Hamblin Cadet or a Super Two and shoe horn a Fulvia engine in? I blame David!
 
Reminds me of the Fulvia Special at the NEC a few years ago.  Photos attached.
 
Robin.
 
BACK TO TOPIC!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: DavidLaver on 02 December, 2009, 10:39:57 AM
That HPE was a stunt fire, the Beta Coupe was rigged as a clowns car, and my 8 and 10 year olds were in stitches.  Having got their attention they sat through some YouTube Stratos action and might now look forward to the Abingdon Sprint which has been on my "want to see one day" list for a decade.

Top Gear is a magic blend - we don't all like all of it but a very great many people find it unmissable.  Be interesting to know if, after X-Factor type stuff, if there ANYTHING more popular?  Worldwide its got to be way up there.

David


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Joanna on 02 December, 2009, 10:44:05 AM
Funny how the rust issue always comes up with Lancia and to be fair the older models did rust a fair bit, but I now have an e class mercedes estate which I have owned for 2 years. When I bought it it had rust round the wheel arches, so i phoned mercedes and they said not a problem its under a 30 year warranty. I thought OMG 30 years, so I bought it.  Anyway to cut a long story short I went tot he dealer to get it done who told me the warranties started in 1998 and mine was december 1997, so tough.  :'(

I recently did some research on the mercedes forums around the world and low and behold nearly every e class seems to be suffering from the same problem of rust, BUT not only that , there are cars from 2005 (thats 4 years ago) that also have rust already !!!  :o

My point is , why no mention of this in the press ? And why are people always banging on about build quality in a mercedes. I took mine to Portugal last year amd the sunroof and indicator stalk broke, probably around £700 to fix.  Took the grale to Italy and Switzerland, on two different occasions and all I did was put petrol in.  :)   What a car !


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Scarpia on 02 December, 2009, 10:50:31 AM
everything I can remember rusted in the 70s, audi's , toyota's (alfasuds....).  Did the beta really rust significantly more or were lancia just stupidly honest in offering to correct the problem and attracted the wrong attention?


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fay66 on 02 December, 2009, 11:05:52 AM
That HPE was a stunt fire, the Beta Coupe was rigged as a clowns car, and my 8 and 10 year olds were in stitches.  Having got their attention they sat through some YouTube Stratos action and might now look forward to the Abingdon Sprint which has been on my "want to see one day" list for a decade.

Top Gear is a magic blend - we don't all like all of it but a very great many people find it unmissable.  Be interesting to know if, after X-Factor type stuff, if there ANYTHING more popular?  Worldwide its got to be way up there.

David

  I find it infinitely missable, great for kids but not much else, it brings in the audience the same way as the X factor does, and of about the same quality; how about entering Clarkson, & the hamster in "I'm a celebrity get me out of here", (at least James May acts as he if he has brains, so I'd let him off) I would then take great pleasure in watching it just to see them have a go at the bush tucker.
I usually try not to react like a "Grumpy Old Man" but I can't stand Top Gear these days, I used to like it back in the old days when you got serious reviews of cars, but not now with Jezza's ego trip.


Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: chugga boom on 02 December, 2009, 11:57:56 AM
everything I can remember rusted in the 70s, audi's , toyota's (alfasuds....).  Did the beta really rust significantly more or were lancia just stupidly honest in offering to correct the problem and attracted the wrong attention?
yep everything rusted, problem was though that it was accepted that things like mini's and mg's datsuns etc rusted WHY I DONT KNOW!!! at the moment i'm welding up a mini for my apprentice, WHEN I'VE FINISHED ONLY THE ROOF AND BOOTLID WONT HAVE BEEN REPAIRED OR REPLACED!!! AND THIS IS APPARENTLY A GOOD 1  :o i can honestly say i've never seen a car as rotten as it and its a 1986 model, so how lancia got tarnished with the rust brush i'll never know as i've never seen a lancia as rotten as this!! lancia shot themselves in the foot by admitting there was a problem with the beta and rust and by trying to do the right thing with a recall, honourable but bad move from which they may never recover in the uk, i had a conversation with a customer with a 1998 rusty vectra who slagged of lancia for rust, i pointed at my 1992 dedra and said find some rust on it, he came back amazed my car looked in " newer condition" than his yet its 6yrs older, cant beat a vauxhall these days for rust let me tell you  ;D


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: DavidLaver on 02 December, 2009, 02:14:18 PM

There's a conspiracy of silence on Merc rust and


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Thotos on 02 December, 2009, 02:20:51 PM

every e class seems to be suffering from the same problem of rust, BUT not only that , there are cars from 2005 (thats 4 years ago) that also have rust already !!!  :o


It's not just E-class it's ALL of them! My 2003 C-Class coupe has rust in the front wheel arches and a friend's 2002 CLK has rust in the rear wheel arches. In both our cases Mercedes refused to do anything about it. In my case they claim the 30 year warranty is an anti-perforation rust warranty which only covers rust from the inside. In my case, they claim, the rust is due to damage on the outside from stones thrwn at the arches by the wheels. They are probably right but that means the Mercedes 30m year warranty is only valid if you never drive your Mercedes or only drive it on carpet  >:(

In fact my 1980 Fiat 131 has less rust than my 2003 Mercedes. I told Mercedes this but they were not amused!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: jimb on 02 December, 2009, 05:35:20 PM
Jim

I think that what the way the article was presented : each car is fantastic but flawed - therefore each car needs a flaw ....

I think, given the lack of knowledge of the cars by most people, they've all liked what they've seen. Anyone with a preference isn't going to change their moind I guess. Nobody has mentioned the R word to me yet tho ... which is nice.




Perhaps that is why the Aurelia and Flaminia were not mentioned as they could not find a fault with them.

Jim


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: lee69 on 02 December, 2009, 07:38:49 PM
With my failing eyesight I cannot determine if the heap of rust in the start of the clip was indeed a Beta.Most unlikely i guess. But who can see what it was...it would nicely undermine (as a joke ) the whole rust discussion, if it turns out to be a bmw......and a bit uncomfortable voor TG also.....

The wheel that you briefly see in the clip is definitely not from a Lancia - looks more like a 80's/90's Ford one to me


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: frankxhv773t on 04 December, 2009, 09:42:12 PM
Surely the claim that Lancia never recovered from the Beta rust scandle is as big a myth as the rust problem itself. Betas sold till 1985 and I was under the impression that the Delta sold even better. I think the demise of Lancia in this country had more to do with the indifferent quality of the rapidly expanded dealer network and the lack of anything really sexy after the Integrale. That's not to knock Dedra Turbos etc but the market for Lancias in this country has tended to be dominated by coupes and small sporting cars.

Anyone who want's a detailed contemporary account of the Beta rust scandal should try and get hold of Geoff Owen's wonderful book "Turning Back The Clock. The life and times of a motor trader"
(ISBN 0-948358-06-8) His association with Betas startes on page 217. My Beta Coupe still has the remains of a G.C. Owen dealer sticker in its' back window.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: JohnMillham on 05 December, 2009, 08:49:50 AM


Anyone who want's a detailed contemporary account of the Beta rust scandal should try and get hold of Geoff Owen's wonderful book "Turning Back The Clock. The life and times of a motor trader"
(ISBN 0-948358-06-8)[/quote]
 I agree. It's a good read! Regards, John


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fay66 on 05 December, 2009, 09:23:53 AM


Anyone who want's a detailed contemporary account of the Beta rust scandal should try and get hold of Geoff Owen's wonderful book "Turning Back The Clock. The life and times of a motor trader"
(ISBN 0-948358-06-8)
I agree. It's a good read! Regards, John
[/quote]

8 copies available on Amazon from £9+ to £35 at
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Turning-Back-Clock-Times-Trader/dp/0948358068/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_2

I've just bought one

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: chrislg on 08 December, 2009, 02:49:32 PM
I found this posting on the Stratos Forum http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7683 (http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7683) (I also know there is a similar posting by the same author on the VSCC forum) it makes interesting reading!

It goes to show that although our favourite marque came out it fairly well, you should never take anything at face value when dealing with the media. That is not to say we should not take every opportunity to promote the LMC via the media and now that we have an excellent Press Officer we should not miss out in future!


Chris


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: lancialulu on 08 December, 2009, 09:49:35 PM
Since TG I've been wearing with pride my Lancia Delta (new logo) back pack on my daily commute into London.

Tonight I slumped into the intercity and dumped the bag opposite me.

Great cars said the guy sitting opposite.

Yes I said - did he ever own one.

11 he said, including a brace of betas, some themas including a couple of turbos and an 832, and an integrale - all bought from new From RT in the eighties. He thought the 832 was the best car he ever had and was tweaked with lowered suspension, side skirts etc.

An no he never had a rust problem even with the betas!

Now drives a flying spur but has fond memories..

He also thought the TG piece was a fair and positive tribute to the brand.

Tim


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: AStacey on 09 December, 2009, 08:19:26 PM
Yes it was common for cars of that period to rust, HA Viva's practically dissolved the moment they left the factory, and Volkswagen were a by word for it, however, I think there was a poitical element to the lancia problem and it's to do with the UK or more specifically the uk's Murdoch run press.
During the eighties there was a lot of shall we say 'Jingoism' around, particularly during the Falklands war, where, when the press realised that there are a lot of people of Italian extraction in Argentina, the link was quickly made with all things Italian, Musollini tanks going backwards etc., and this fitted in nicely with a bit of EU bashing. So it was good copy to show an Italian product in a bad light.Poor old FIAT evenj tried to launch a car called the 'Argenta' !!! I bet they were falling over themselves at the SUN when they saw that. Funny thing is German cars never seem to be subjected to the same treatment even though going way back they have had major problems with there product. BMW's Nicasil engine problems for one. I know Jag & Ferrari used it too, but BM's are so often hailed as the bench mark of motoring perfection, Nice cars, I've owned two of them, but definately not without, sometimes serious flaws.
My wife purchased one of the first of the new Mini's. It was returned three times with faults, plus at least once for a manufacturers recall. On one occasion, when she mentioned this frequency to a salesman from Snows, he replied, 'Well Madam with Minis what do you expect!' Of course this is when Beemer folk say 'Well of course it's not a real BMW etc etc.
It rather appears to me, as I enter my twilight years, that as a country we will accept any old yarn that the Germans spin us. How could those those slovenly,workshy,effeminate etc etc. Italians build a decent car??. then he gets in his new five series that doesn't even have the wipers converted for right hand drive. I rest my case.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fay66 on 09 December, 2009, 09:53:20 PM
Yes it was common for cars of that period to rust, HA Viva's practically dissolved the moment they left the factory, and Volkswagen were a by word for it, however, I think there was a poitical element to the lancia problem and it's to do with the UK or more specifically the uk's Murdoch run press.
During the eighties there was a lot of shall we say 'Jingoism' around, particularly during the Falklands war, where, when the press realised that there are a lot of people of Italian extraction in Argentina, the link was quickly made with all things Italian, Musollini tanks going backwards etc., and this fitted in nicely with a bit of EU bashing. So it was good copy to show an Italian product in a bad light.Poor old FIAT evenj tried to launch a car called the 'Argenta' !!! I bet they were falling over themselves at the SUN when they saw that. Funny thing is German cars never seem to be subjected to the same treatment even though going way back they have had major problems with there product. BMW's Nicasil engine problems for one. I know Jag & Ferrari used it too, but BM's are so often hailed as the bench mark of motoring perfection, Nice cars, I've owned two of them, but definately not without, sometimes serious flaws.
My wife purchased one of the first of the new Mini's. It was returned three times with faults, plus at least once for a manufacturers recall. On one occasion, when she mentioned this frequency to a salesman from Snows, he replied, 'Well Madam with Minis what do you expect!' Of course this is when Beemer folk say 'Well of course it's not a real BMW etc etc.
It rather appears to me, as I enter my twilight years, that as a country we will accept any old yarn that the Germans spin us. How could those those slovenly,workshy,effeminate etc etc. Italians build a decent car??. then he gets in his new five series that doesn't even have the wipers converted for right hand drive. I rest my case.

Without trying to get on my high horse as I agree with a lot of your posting, but as an ex employee of 24 years at Vauxhall, your comments regarding the HA Viva are a load of C---P, they were no better or no worse than any other major manufacturer of the time, and after the fiasco with rust in the original F type, better than most, in fact everything Vauxhall built in that period was wax treated and undersealed, something you certainly couldn't say about my Fathers Ford Capri, that was sold after the first year due to extensive corrosion, when we looked underneath it there was nothing other than the paint, no protection that we could see not even a clear wax !.
We built the HA vans for the post office and BT until the mid 1980's so they couldn't have been that bad.
Rant over.
But it's comments like that which are unjustified that the press picked up on, and used against Lancia.


Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Scarpia on 10 December, 2009, 03:31:22 PM
our viva didn't dissolve in the rain, it simply stopped .Water always seemed to go straight into the electrics (I think from road splash).It rusted about the same as our maxi, escort et al. The minis (actually riley elfs ) were head and shoulders above the others in rust susceptibility.Floors just fell out .....We liked most of our cars but I don't think we ever had a good one......
 


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fay66 on 11 December, 2009, 02:32:14 AM
our viva didn't dissolve in the rain, it simply stopped .Water always seemed to go straight into the electrics (I think from road splash).It rusted about the same as our maxi, escort et al. The minis (actually riley elfs ) were head and shoulders above the others in rust susceptibility.Floors just fell out .....We liked most of our cars but I don't think we ever had a good one......
 
Hi William,
Never really had to much problem with Viva's in the rain, the bit I always found disconcerting on a HC 1256 cc that I owned was at about 36 K, was getting someone to push the clutch down with the engine running, and watch the crankshaft pulley move in and out in time with the pedal due to thrust washer wear, the thrust washers were only fitted to either side of the centre main bearing.
I also remember being stranded on the M1 for hours in 1958/1959 in a hired Mini, and missing a 21st birthday party due to drowned electrics, it was in the times before Mini owners realised that a rubber glove with the finger tips cut off, worked perfectly in keeping the wet off of the distributor and leads. ;D

Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fensaddler on 11 December, 2009, 12:58:23 PM
our viva didn't dissolve in the rain, it simply stopped .Water always seemed to go straight into the electrics (I think from road splash).It rusted about the same as our maxi, escort et al. The minis (actually riley elfs ) were head and shoulders above the others in rust susceptibility.Floors just fell out .....We liked most of our cars but I don't think we ever had a good one......
 
Hi William,
Never really had to much problem with Viva's in the rain, the bit I always found disconcerting on a HC 1256 cc that I owned was at about 36 K, was getting someone to push the clutch down with the engine running, and watch the crankshaft pulley move in and out in time with the pedal due to thrust washer wear, the thrust washers were only fitted to either side of the centre main bearing.
I also remember being stranded on the M1 for hours in 1958/1959 in a hired Mini, and missing a 21st birthday party due to drowned electrics, it was in the times before Mini owners realised that a rubber glove with the finger tips cut off, worked perfectly in keeping the wet off of the distributor and leads. ;D

Brian
8227 8)

Pedants corner, but as the Mini wasn't launched until 1959, it definitely wasn't 1958.  But I gather the early ones were a little susceptible in that regard...


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sllim1946 on 12 December, 2009, 09:46:59 PM
Brian,
Are you sure that they cut off the finger tips? - if so to what purpose? to give good ventilation perhaps? My 1959 (yes, the first year of production), ex BMC press fleet and ex John Cooper's demo car needed all fingers intact to keep out the H2O!!!


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Neil Lewis on 12 December, 2009, 11:42:25 PM
Brian,
Are you sure that they cut off the finger tips? - if so to what purpose? to give good ventilation perhaps? My 1959 (yes, the first year of production), ex BMC press fleet and ex John Cooper's demo car needed all fingers intact to keep out the H2O!!!

Conveniently rubber gloves have four fingers and a thumb.  You cut off all the tips then pass the plug leads out of the fingers and the coil lead out of the thumb.  An elastic band around each finger keeps teh wet out.  The wrist of the glove is elastic banded around teh base of teh distributor so the whol dizzy cap area is waterproofed.

You could just push a needle through the fingers and force the leads through the rubber but they soon tear/perish letting water in, exactly the opposite of what you need.

Best done using the pink variety of glove since it stands out well, lol!

Neil


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: fay66 on 13 December, 2009, 12:15:31 AM
Brian,
Are you sure that they cut off the finger tips? - if so to what purpose? to give good ventilation perhaps? My 1959 (yes, the first year of production), ex BMC press fleet and ex John Cooper's demo car needed all fingers intact to keep out the H2O!!!

Not for ventilation, but you had to have holes for the 4 plug leads and the high tension lead, note, only a small piece off of the end of the finger tips, not all the fingers ;D otherwise where did the leads go?

Just Googled 'distributor Mini Rubber Glove' and came up with this.
CAR reader Mini memories

CAR reader John Wood remembers tuning his Mini with a rubber glove
 
By John Wood

Spyshots

30 September 2009 09:30


I learned to drive in my Mum’s red Mini – 1963 vintage – and having stoved in the front end whilst 'practising' for my test (sorry Mum) I passed. Just. We all drove Minis in the late 1960s, and those that didn’t had Anglias. Tuning was rife: CCC magazine was our bible. You started out with an old Minivan (was the tax cheaper?) and the first thing to do was to get someone to insert some windows in the side. So then you had a Countryman, sort of.

We learnt about rear subframe rot, lowering the steering wheel and fitting a Motalita. Cool! The exhaust pipe connection to the manifold would come undone under hard acceleration which was fixed with a Speedwell 'brace' from the rocker box to the bulkhead. Only trouble then was serious vibration. Never mind.

But the ultimate 'mod' involved Mum again. Pinch one of her rubber gloves, snip off the ends of the fingers, and slide it over the distributor. The four plug leads came out of the fingers, and the lead to the coil came out of the thumb. Then you could drive it in the rain, and it would keep going!

I ended up with a 1966 Cooper 'S'. A proper one with the 12-stud head. We shaved the head, fitted a hot cam, twin 11/2” SUs, a revcounter and wide wheels. Green with a white roof. Marvellous. I wonder what happened to it...


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Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: frankxhv773t on 13 December, 2009, 10:29:53 PM
Back at Stratos replicas; I followed the link and was intrigued by the reference to the one "featured in Penthouse Magazine, pale blue model." I wonder, was that because it was an outdoors photo-shoot in winter or were they referring to the car?

Still, a number of posts from people saying the show has made up their minds to buy a Stratos replica. No publicity is....etc.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: ColinMarr on 15 December, 2009, 09:37:16 AM
All fans of Jeremy Clarkson and his gang of loveable buddies will enjoy this article from today’s Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/dec/15/jeremy-clarkson-digested-read

PS I should have added – it’s also a fine piece of writing that will please many readers, not only fans of the man!


Colin


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 15 December, 2009, 07:44:29 PM
I took a Flaminia Touring GTL for a MOT today, the blokes there know me and my liking for things Lancia, but they all made favorable comments about the Top Gear programme and its portrayal of the Marque. The GTL passed by the way, they were making all the right noises about its mechanical engineering.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 30 December, 2009, 04:13:02 PM
FYI : Interesting footnote on series 4 from Andy Wilman (whom I'm guessing is the producer) :

http://transmission.blogs.topgear.com/2009/12/20/series-14-where-were-at/


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: AStacey on 30 December, 2009, 08:25:07 PM
Brian, that's my point !!!!
A lot of what is handed down as 'The truth' about cars and, for that matter, a lot of other things we read in the press, is just regurgitated heresay, made up by 'not very good journalists who can't be bothered to check their facts or, worse, just to please their editor and political master. The trouble with Clarkson and his kind, is he tries to pass off his eccentric raving right wing ramblings, as a bit of a joke, and when it all goes tit's up in the press, puts on his naughty schoolboy caught 'scrumping' routine, to get out of it. Like you I've done a job for a very long time, fourty two years in the media, and I would say to anyone who laughingly thinks that 'Good old Jezza' doesn't have an 'Agenda', believe me, I know .....HE DOES.
Apologies if this is a little 'off theme' but I feel it's worth mentioning, for the sake of those who think that we still haver fair and unbiased reporting in this country


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: Peter W on 23 January, 2010, 10:05:44 PM
Received my copy of Auto Italia today and was surprised to read a write up by J-P stating that he had received an email from Auto Italia asking for cars for the show and that within 48 hrs he had ensured that the BBC had a suitable range.  The inference being that they had all been supplied through Club LanciaSport.  Funny thing, it was Colin Marr who contacted me to arrange for my car to be on standby should a more local Fulvia prove not to be available for the filming of the opening shots.  I was however pleased to read the editor's note at the end of the article thanking members of the Lancia Motor Club for providing their cars & information.

Peter


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: peterbaker on 23 January, 2010, 11:20:09 PM
Worth going back and re reading opening post on this thread.


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: ColinMarr on 24 January, 2010, 01:42:48 PM
Posts under the heading "Two clubs is one too many" are also relevant!

Colin


Title: Re: BBC TV Top Gear programme on Lancia!
Post by: sparehead3 on 31 January, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
Lancia is on the Best of Top Gear right now .......