Lancia Motor Club

I need to replace one of my front wheel bearings.  There is nothing in the service manual about this so I am hoping someone that has done this can walk me through what I need to do and in what order.  Thanks.  The car is a '69 S1.

Look at post in Fulvia 20th April 2021, there's a relevant post.
Brian
8227 8)

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Look at post in Fulvia 20th April 2021, there's a relevant post.
Brian
8227 8)
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Thanks but that doesn't really tell me anything except I need to remove the outer nut and the inner retaining nut.  I assume I need to remove the drive shaft (CV joint)?, and what about the A arm and the spring?  Do I need to preload the spring or anything (I have a composite on rollers) and does it matter where I place the jack?.  I am replacing the ball joints and shocks as well and never having done any of this before (except shocks) was hoping someone could give me some pointers.  Thanks. 

You have to restrain the spring. Being a S1 there is a special tool that I think Omicron may sell that does this job. The club unfortunately does not have this. Basically it replaces the upper bolt on the outer edge of the spring housing with a strong forged extension to take a “U” shaped piece of metal that goes over the spring. The spring is then compressed by a jack under the hub until a bar can be passed through holes in the bottom of the U and under the spring. Being composite I would take great care not to make any stress marks or scratches. After the spring has beed restrained all the jobs you want to do are possible. (On S2 there is a bumpstop extension to the spring housing that you can wrap and bolt a strong chain round to secure the spring, but I would not use this with composite springs).

You need to remove the drive shaft for the wheel bearing. Do the wheel bearing in situ. The wishbone arms may need to come off to remove the ball joints (esp the upper) and press new ones in.

Just a  couple of my own comments followig Tim's sound advice. There is no need to do aything with the spring. Just remove the driveshaft after undoing the 3 hub nuts with the special tool. Remove the circlip fixing the inner castellated nut and carefully drift out the bearing.

However, the bearing inner nut can be a real problem to undo it even with the special tool and a lot of brute force. If resistant to all efforts, it is necessary to remove the suspension swivel (after disconnecting upper and lower balljoints, again a special Lancia tool helps here but not essential) and try to undo the nut on the bench. In my last case (after using 700 Nm torque...), it was necessary to go with the swivel to a lorry garage to use a giant power wrench. In this case a hydraulic press is great to fit the new bearing.

Removal of the top balljoint from the S1 wishbone is very difficult in situ. Best to drop the subframe and remove the wishbone, not a 5 min job. Good luck, Andrea

Thanks, this is great.  I was really hoping I didn't have to deal with the spring.  I've attached Tav's 50 and 51 and will run through what was mentioned to make sure I understand it.

Once the wheel is removed and the front end on jack stands I will remove the outer hub nuts (#'s 9,19 and 20) in Tav 50. and drive out the drive shaft.  Once out I remove the circlip and inner retaining ring (#'s 1 and 14) in Tav 51.  And by the suspension swivel I assume you are referring to item 13 in Tav 51.  The inner ring is the beast to remove from your comments.  Once the inner ring is out I can drive out the bearing. 

Should I leave the shock in place to help keep the suspension from sagging too much and replace it only after I have replaced the bearing and have the drive shaft back in place?

Thanks again for the assistance.

Yes, the swivel is item 13 in Tav 51. You may have to undo the bottom end of the damper, sometimes necessary, others not.
The simplest way to get the driveshaft out (after undoing the hub nuts) is to undo the screws fixing the inner CV joint to the gearbox flange, drop the inner CV joint down and push the driveshaft towards the gearboxt. Be careful not to damage the thread of the outer CV joint (use a puller if possible to push it at the recessed center).
With a hydraulic jack positioned under the bottom balljoint you can gently move the suspension up or down to help your procedure. The hub nut must be torqued up to 200 Nm and staked. Unlike other cars, ther should not be any perceptible movement at the hub/bearing interface. Best regards, Andrea

Just to reiterate you need to restrain the spring if you are changing ball joints. Not if you are just doing wheel bearings. Indeed if you are doing both sides it may be just as easy to remove the spring completely (not for the faint hearted but can be done in half a day... The club has a tool to withdraw the ball joints from the upper arms as they are normally a blind fit. However I have yet to refit new ones without taking the arm off and pressing them in.

Thanks for the added comments.  I hope to get to it tomorrow.

As an aside, does anyone have any tricks or tips on getting the bushings installed on the ends of the anti-roll bar?  I had to cut the old ones off so wondering how to get the new ones installed.  The rubber is extremely stiff.  Thanks.

Re antirollbar bushes, these just slide on maybe with help of rubber grease or washing up liquid. However , you may have a fatter than standard bar (18mm or larger diameter) then you may need to open up the standard bushes.

Thanks.  It was not so much getting the bushing on the bar itself, it was getting the bushing into that holder, the one on the end.  Just don't want to damage the bushing forcing it into the holder.

So I was able to remove the 3 outer hub nuts, I guess one is just a spacer rather than a nut.  I was able to tap the drive shaft in about 1.5cm before it stopped.  I can grab the drive shaft from behind and push it in and out about 1.5cm.  It pushes in on the inner boot as well which is what is stopping it from going further I think.  I jacked up the suspension under the A arm maybe 5cm to help with alignment but I still can't push the driveshaft out the back.  Did i miss something?  I'm afraid to hammer on the drive shaft too hard in case I break something.

Did you completey remove the inner CV joint from the gearbox fange and allow it to drop down? After doing this and perhaps raising the suspension a bit with a jack under the lower balljoint, I normally use a puller to push the driveshaft toward the gearbox. Andrea

That's the part I was missing, thanks.  So if I am removing the inner CV joint first, once I have the outer shaft pushed through the hub the entire driveshaft should be free of the car?

Just wanting to make sure I am removing the correct bolts.  It is the ones at the back of the CV joint (see bolt circled red) and not the ones screwed into the gearbox, correct?

Yes, correct: those are the bolts fixing the inner CV joint, Andrea

After reading this story and having done some pretty challenging jobs on Lancias, from Aprilia to Fulvia over many years, I am pleased never to have attempted a front-wheel bearing change. Years ago I was pleased to entrust the job to Don Proudfoot and even then, he had a nightmare getting the worn bearing out of the hub. I hope this job goes more smoothly!

Colinmarr, yes I wish I didn't have to do it as well.

I got the driveshaft out finally.  There was a lot of grease when I pulled the CV joint from the gear box, enough that it dripped a big gob on the floor.  Is this normal?  Do I just clean up the face on the gear box when I am ready to reinstall the driveshaft?  I am replacing both boots since I have it off (one has a hole).

So I found out why the wheel hub was flopping around.  It wasn't the bearing so much as the inner bearing retaining ring.  It was never properly tightened against the bearing.  I put that 6 pronged ring remover and was expecting to have to really reef on it to get it off.  I barely applied any pressure and it started turning.  It also had not outer circlip.  Thankfully I purchased a new retaining ring and circlip.  But now that the bearing is exposed, how do I get it out?  There is nowhere to tap on it from the outside due to the hub spline.

Once it is out and everything is cleaned up should I put a little grease between the outer bearing and the hub wall?

Thanks for the continued support.

While waiting on those questions I thought I would replace the drive shaft dust gaurds.  We all like pictures so here is one of my outboard CV joint with the dust cover off.  I figured I can slide both new covers on from one end.
 
The repair shop manual says to remove the old dust cover and slide on the new one I need to "gently tap on the joint inner ring and remove the joint from the shaft".  So which is the inner ring?  Is it 1 or 2 or something else.  I gently tapped on 1 but nothing happened.  Maybe I need to tap harder or tap on something else?  These work shop manuals aren't very helpful without pictures so hopefully someone in the future can learn from my frustrations.

Can't comment on Fulvia but it looks very very similar to Beta. That has the shaft located by a spring clip that you have to overcome. If there's a collar around the shaft at the point the shaft enters the CV joint that'll be the telltale. The Beta shafts take more than a little tap to remove them. If the shaft is off the car it'd be put in a vice and the body of the CG hit (usually repeatedly) with a sort face hammer. Don't stand with your feet in the impact area! When I used to service them I'd simply remove the circlip from the inner end, slide the inner CV off the shaft and then slide the new boot down the length of the shaft. I could do this easily enough with the shaft in situ back in the day!
Guy

As Guy says, to remove the outer joint it takes a very smart smack with a copper mallet. Equally to replace you have to slide the small collar over the wire circlip that is at the end of the shaft, to compress the wire clip. Then offer up the cv joint lining up the splines and smack it back on. You may have to have a number of attempts…

Re the bearing yes you need to remove the stub axle (what you are calling the hub) before you can see enough of the bearing to drift/push it out. Examine the stub axle for wear on its inboard surface. A problem with Fulvias is they wear a few thou if there has been a prolonged bearing problem. This is irretreivable. I have some new stub axles for sale but they are S2 and different from S1 due to how the wheel attaches. If yours is worn you will need to replace.

On S1 driveshafts, as indicated by Tim, you need applying a sharp tap to shock free the CV joint. Refit with care to prevent distorsion of the clip. Use plenty of special grease  (molibdenum sulphide-based) and, after refitting the rubber boot, make sure you equalize the inside pressure with the ambient one by sliding a long thin screwdriver (carefully to avoid damage) inside the boot via the narrow end and moving the joint by hand in all directions. The inner CV joint needs the same grease.
The bearing can be extracted with a bearing puller fitted to a sliding hammer. However, careful use of a thin flat drift might do as as well. Andrea

Thanks.  What is it exactly that I a giving a smart smack?  Is it evident in my picture above?  Is this circlip visible or only after I remove the outer joint?

Here is a better picture with some of the grease removed.  Is the ring I am to tap the one shown by the arrow?  Or do I stand the shaft vertically in a vise (with the joint I want removed pointing down) and give a sharp tap to the entire joint (put a block of wood on it and give it a whack)? 

Hit the outer cage ring with a wack while the driveshaft is held in a vice, Andrea

Smack The CV joint it self not the little ring. Yes the circlip is not yet visible...

I'm a little slow but I eventually get there.  Thanks, that is great.  I'll let you know how I make out.

Here is a better picture with some of the grease removed.  Is the ring I am to tap the one shown by the arrow?  Or do I stand the shaft vertically in a vise (with the joint I want removed pointing down) and give a sharp tap to the entire joint (put a block of wood on it and give it a whack)? 
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That ring is used to keep the circlip in the groove when you reassemble the shaft on the CV joint. It also limits the travel the shaft has into the joint and stops the splines jamming in the CV joint where they end on the shaft. Try not to lose it!

Guy

This drive shaft looks the same as a Flavia drive shaft to me. Should this be so, and the only reason you are removing the outboard CV joint is to replace the rubber boot, then I would look at the inboard joint first. The only thing that holds that on is a circlip that is easily accessible from the end. If you remove the circlip and move the inboard rubber boot out of the way, you should be able to tap the shaft out with a punch. Then, remove the inboard cover from the shaft, clean the shaft and slide the new outboard cover on and reassemble. When you put the clips on the outboard rubber, as has been previously mentioned, make sure that there is not a lot of trapped air in there but also make sure the face of the rubber boot does not catch the inner race of the bearing, as this would cut the rubber.

Hope this is of some use.
Dave

Thanks.  I am actually replacing both dust covers as one has a hole and the other is cracked so I decided I might as well do both.  I figured I only need to remove one joint to replace both dust covers.   It sounds like you are saying it is easier to remove the inboard joint?  Or am I reading that wrong.  There is so much bloody grease it is hard to see anything but I will have a look at the inboard joint before I start wacking, sorry tapping, away.

S1 and S2 inner CV joints of the Fulvia have different circlips. The simple way to remove the inner CV joint after dealing with its circlip is to use a small puller, Andrea

So I was away for a few days and got back to it today.  I couldn't budge the circlip on the inner joint so I wacked the outer joint while held in place in a vice as suggested.  Took a few wacks but I got it off.  I've removed the old boots and cleaned up the shaft.  When I put the boots back in place how much grease do I stuff in the joints behind the boot? 

I had to cut off the clamp on the lower boot.  It didn't have any way of loosening or tightening it.  Just one sold metal band.  Is it OK to use a worm type norma clamp as a replacement?  The norma clamps have a rounded edge so they don't bite into the rubber.  Or is this a no no?

You seem to have had an original boot given the solid band. You need to use specific CV boot bands as there is not any clearance to the bottom swivel joint. Never seen a "jubilee" type worm clip used. I pack the grease so that  it is flush and then  add a bit more. As previously mentioned by others it is important to release trapped air.

And use moly grease of course.

Thanks.  Picked up the correct CV joint grease and have the proper straps so time to put it all back together.

So its been awhile while I waited for parts.  All bushings have been replaced and everything is cleaned up, drive shaft is ready to go back in so before I get to that I need to install the new bearing.  Do I need to use a press to install the bearing or should I be able to tap it into place?  Should I put some grease around the bearing before installing it?   Thanks.

Almost forgot, should I install the wheel hub/disc brake before or after the bearing is in place, or does it not make a difference?

I think you will need a press.
Do not understand your last point, the bearing resides in the hub so must be fitted before you put the hub on the car insofar as I remember.   The drive shaft then slides in from behind  and then you connect up the bottom ball joint.

I had to replace both the wheel hub and the bearing.  The hub and disc brake are on the outside of the upright (thing that the ball joints connect to) while the bearing is on the inside.  The opening in the upright allows the hub axle to extend back so the bearing is mounted around the hub axle.  I have both the wheel hub/disc brake (they are bolted to each other) off the car.  Since there is really nothing that attached the wheel hub to the upright, other than the drive shaft (which is also off the car) when it is all bolted together, I assume I install the bearing into the upright and then push the wheel hub axle into the bearing?  Not sure if I explained that well enough.  I can include a picture if that helps.

If the upright is still on the car you need to push carefully the bearing fully into the housing then do up the retaining ring (very tight) and put the the wire circlip back. then you can carefully put your stub axle/disk into the centre of the bearing. It all does up tight with the driveshaft in place.

Perfect.  Thanks.

If you disconnect the track rod end, you can fully rotate the swivel (upright) and get better access to the hub, Andrea

Had to step away for a few days to take care of other business but got back to it this morning.  Wasn't looking forward to trying to get the bearing back in or the hub through the bearing as the tolerances are so tight.  A few days ago I tried pushing the bearing into the upright but it didn't move so I knew I would have to whack it in.  I ended up putting the bearing in the freezer and today I put a very thin film of grease on the bearing and the inside of the upright and it just slid into place.  I pushed it in with my fingers, fully seating it.  Then installed the retaining ring, torqued to 200 Nm, and put in the clip.  Since that worked so well I put the entire hub/disc into the freezer and left it for 3 hrs.  It didn't just slide in this time but 4 or 5 light taps  got it fully into place.  Thought I would share this as it worked so well. 

Installed the drive shaft, man what a messy job, and then screwed on the outer nuts.  No more movement of the hub now that everything is bolted up tight.  Also new A arm bushings and shocks.  Hope to take it out tomorrow to see how it performs and feels.  Thanks everyone for your continued assistance.  Could not have done this without the help of this great community.