Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Delta and Prisma => Topic started by: GerardJPC on 21 May, 2021, 02:36:33 PM



Title: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: GerardJPC on 21 May, 2021, 02:36:33 PM
Hello, I have a strange yen to own an earlyish Delta that is definitely not an Integrale or an HF.  Maybe one of the SOHC 1300 or 1500s, but the lure of the Lampredi twin-cammed 1600 GT is also there.  I expect that I would have to go to Italy to get one of these cars (prices in the Italian adverts vary widely).  Does anyone here have any experience of driving these Deltas that linger in the shade of their more illustrious siblings?    Thanks!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB_XbJ_Wma0


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: lancialulu on 21 May, 2021, 02:48:38 PM
We have a "French" 1600 GTie as a daily in south of France - I think it is faster than my 1600HF Fulvia but the ride is softer. Handles very well. If living in salt free environment they survive well due to the zinc coating on the chassis. It is also quite economic even driven hard. We have bought it back to the UK twice to do routine maintenance on it. Never missed a beat.


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: GerardJPC on 21 May, 2021, 04:06:07 PM
Thanks!  The unadorned Delta is one of the very few five door hatchbacks that I think is a good looking car.  Giugiaro on top form.


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: GerardJPC on 21 May, 2021, 04:21:13 PM
Lovely basic car with steelies, but rather expensive -


https://www.classic-trader.com/uk/cars/listing/lancia/delta/delta/1984/240897



Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: Kevinlincs on 21 May, 2021, 06:39:27 PM
My first Delta, indeed my first Lancia, was a single cam 1.5. After being used to Mk2 Escorts and Fiestas it was a revelation, not only in the handling department compared to the Ford offerings (why are they so highly rated now  ???) but toi my surprise the power didn't tail off at 4,000 rpm like in other cars we were used to as teenagers, the Delta seemed to have an extra power band once above that range and loved to rev out to the redline. Loved that car even if I did have to replace the metal fuel tank as it was like swiss cheese, we even tried welding it whilst full of water but it still leaked, remember placing the order at Mountview Motors Lancia agent in Horncastle as you couldn't get a pattern one, was around 150 from memory and the parts guy seemed reluctant to order one thinking I must be mad as the car only cost me about that to buy! This would have been about 1987 and the car wasn't that old although I can't recall the Reg. No. now.
I also recall the gear linkage falling out of the floor when one too many J turns was done whilst trying to impress a young lady one Sunday afternoon in Mablethorpe car park  ;D Had to drive home holding the gear lever up to stop it dragging on the road, don't think the girl was that impressed and I didn't see her again. The car didn't last too much longer either, can't recall what did eventually finish it off but was most likely due to my youthful exuberance. Not long after that I bought a Mk1 Astra and went rallying, an ex Vauxhall Astra/Nova challenge car, had some great fun with that too. Colin McRae was just finishing driving a Nova before getting the Prodrive Subaru Legacy, after an outing or two in Dads Sierra. A great time to be in Rallying.
I have a Clio 172 ex race car sat in my shed which I've never used but threaten to convert to Tarmac Rally spec, before I get way too old to remember anything!   


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: GerardJPC on 22 May, 2021, 02:57:27 AM
Markets are rarely rational (which is why quite a lot of economic theories are unhelpful as a guide to what will actually happen), and the market for 1970s Fords is overheated and has been for some time.   My Fiat 124 and my Lancia Beta each easily outperform their Ford rivals, but are worth way less.    I regard this as good news, because I buy classic cars to drive and not as investments, and rarely wish to pay more than about 8K for a classic car.   If I had old Ford (or Delta Integrale) amounts of money, I would spend it on something like a Flaminia.  The only old Ford that I would like to own would be a Model T or a Model A, for historical reasons.  There is a 1925 Model T for sale near my house, for about 8K, but I shall resist.

My itch to have a basic, low powered Delta may not be so itchy that I will go to the trouble of bringing one over from Europe, but I will keep an eye out... 


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: Andy D on 22 May, 2021, 10:58:07 AM
I've owned my 1300 LX for six years and also own an HF Turbo ie. Whilst the more powerful car is ultimately my favourite, the LX is so much fun due to its smooth and revvy engine and my car has also got a stainless steel exhaust which has a lovely rasp to it. It handles well although is quite soft. I have always wondered what it would be like on stiffer springs but that might end up ruining it. Obviously it's not fast but that just means you can drive at 10 tenths most of the time!

There really aren't many around now but they do come up for sale occasionally.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7911/40540083693_865565c417_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24Lowue)1989 Lancia Delta 1300 LX (https://flic.kr/p/24Lowue) by Andy (https://www.flickr.com/photos/8165854@N08/), on Flickr


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: sparehead3 on 22 May, 2021, 11:47:34 AM
As and the previous owner of that 1300LX I fully agree ! :)


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: Andy D on 23 May, 2021, 09:59:05 AM
This has just appeared on ebay...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265169122489?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dbf21c46db9e442fc9f7db4154b792f61%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D274745772212%26itm%3D265169122489%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A1d1f517a-bbad-11eb-a782-de8ebcc6d98e%7Cparentrq%3A98a75cbb1790a77d141285eafff7fe37%7Ciid%3A1


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: GerardJPC on 23 May, 2021, 10:42:39 AM
Very fine, thanks!  The asking price seems a tad fullish.


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: GerardJPC on 23 May, 2021, 10:54:45 AM
Hmmm...., might that be the same car that was on FB etc a while back as a slightly rusty 1200 quid barn find?


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: Andy D on 23 May, 2021, 12:54:49 PM
I don't remember seeing any early red Deltas come up before although I do recall a facelift car or two. The MOT history on this looks pretty encouraging but, like you say, that is a lot of money...

Here is a FB conversation about it: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lmcuk/permalink/3930624100361286/


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: Kevinlincs on 23 May, 2021, 02:12:20 PM
Now that takes me back, looks a peach.
Little details you forget about like the way the lower lip on the front bumper tucks in at the sides, the Beta reminiscent gauges, all fantastic to see again and looks to be in great order. If it's been refreshed well then the price reflects what it is now worth I'd counter, certainly be every penny spent getting another car done up. Nice to see it.  8)


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: Sliding Pillar on 23 May, 2021, 06:27:15 PM
Price does seem a bit optimistic, by comparison, my friend at European Classic Cars is just about to market a 2002 Alfa 147, one owner, red with tan leather interior, 17,000 miles, yours for less than 2K. I know it has the wrong badge on the front, but it is 6K cheaper.


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: CesareFerrari on 23 May, 2021, 08:31:58 PM
Very fine, thanks!  The asking price seems a tad fullish.

The seller says 'Viewings are welcome and encouraged. There will be no negotiations undertaken for the price until a viewing has take place.' Is this not a heavy hint that the price is highly negotiable? I would imagine he has put a high figure on it to test demand while deterring idle enquirers.


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: GerardJPC on 24 May, 2021, 03:42:29 AM
Any price for an old car ought to be negotiable, but the trick is, of course, to pitch the opening price at a realistic level.  That is hard to do with a car as rare as this, as there isn't really a going rate.    I was tempted recently by a very rare Mazda 1800 saloon car from the early seventies that was designed by Giugiaro (an unused Alfa design).  There are maybe two of those cars in the UK - very pretty but mechanically perhaps a bit dull.  The dealer selling that rarity has been gradually increasing the price from 10K to 17K, while nobody buys the car.  I reckon that the price for that car might be 8k, but who knows?  I think that the 1500 Delta on eBay might be a 5K car, but again it's hard to tell.

The prices in Italy for Delta 1300s and 1500s are pitched all over the place, from around 1500 Euros to well over 10000 Euros.  A Delta dealer near Perugia has a 1600 GT up for under 5000 Euros, but it has been done up a bit to look a bit too much like an Integrale.


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: frankxhv773t on 24 May, 2021, 09:58:23 AM
Whether the price of a car is negotiable is entirely the prerogative of the vendor. The degree of negotiability depends on how badly they want to sell the car. The white Y10 is a case in point where most people thought even the best Y10 wasn't worth much more that 1,000, the vendor told me he had turned down offers over 2,000 and, although he was a dealer, he rather liked it and wasn't in any hurry to sell so was firm on just under 4,000.


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: Kevinlincs on 24 May, 2021, 12:37:58 PM
For what it's worth I value them at what it would cost to do one up to that standard, far more than what that is at, if you could find a RHD one to start with.
Cars like the 147 are still cheap as they haven't thinned out yet, in 10 or 15 years they'll be in demand, maybe. Like the Alfa 145 has finally caught on. Suds and Sprints are catching up now, 10 years ago a good one was 3k but now some are in the teens.
Still rather have that Delta and 20k in my pocket than a Mk2 escort!!


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: SanRemo78 on 24 May, 2021, 03:43:56 PM
The 145 Cloverleaf was one of two cars that I wish I'd kept. It was rear ended a month after I sold it. Having had it for 13 years from new it was by far the most reliable car I'll ever own. Two breakdowns (clutch slave cylinder & an alarm-10 minutes disconnected sorted that!). It did 165k in that time, still had the original clutch and shocks. Engine & box had never been opened. Two batteries from new, one replacement exhaust and a few sets of discs/pads/lower arms. Looked great, drove brilliantly! I miss that car. And the first HPE.


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: grandespud on 26 May, 2021, 03:21:20 PM
I don't remember seeing any early red Deltas come up before although I do recall a facelift car or two. The MOT history on this looks pretty encouraging but, like you say, that is a lot of money...

Here is a FB conversation about it: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lmcuk/permalink/3930624100361286/


It's not my car by the way, I just posted it on FB for interest. I was surprised at the price as I think most Lancisti would be, but then again, it's rare, and as has been said, look at the equivalent Ford prices!  :o

Hope it goes to a good home.

Paul


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: lancialulu on 26 May, 2021, 03:41:31 PM

 I was surprised at the price as I think most Lancisti would be, but then again, it's rare,

Paul

Rare does not mean valuable - 1600ie Symbol Prisma can be had for a lot less in immaculate condition....


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: frankxhv773t on 27 May, 2021, 12:16:52 PM
Indeed, sometimes things are rare precisely because people don't consider them worth saving.


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: GerardJPC on 28 May, 2021, 06:39:28 AM
Curse you, Internet!  Once you start looking at car ads, you start to vanish down all sorts of rabbit holes.  This one is soooooooo not my thing, but ...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324645647014?_trkparms=aid%3D1110010%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.DISCCARDS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200818141627%26meid%3Dd1dc38856f8e40e28daee42ea1091f7a%26pid%3D101110%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D373593425239%26itm%3D324645647014%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2563228%26algv%3DDiscOrganicBase&_trksid=p2563228.c101110.m1982


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: grandespud on 28 May, 2021, 11:39:02 AM

The all white colour scheme was never my taste, but it looks a nice car none the less. Unfortunately, I think it will always been seen as a 'fake' evo. But if you can get past that then a big saving on the real thing.


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: GerardJPC on 28 May, 2021, 03:35:31 PM
Take the naff spoiler off, and then you have a car that is right hand drive, has a Lampredi, has a turbo, has posh seats, has posh wheels, is alleged not to be rusty, and is probably a lot of fun to drive.  I am not bidding, but if I did, I might bid 10 to 12 ish.     But, Hell, maybe 15 isn't a daft price.  I dunno!


Title: Re: Delta 1600 GTs (and also 1300 and 1500 Deltas)
Post by: jus on 28 May, 2021, 07:22:25 PM
I quite fancy the 1500 on EBay. If I had space, I'd seriously consider it. My first car was a 1500 Delta (DFO 139W), but it wasn't an LX - what are the differences?
I think nostalgia as well as rarity dictates the pricing for these kinds of cars. They're worth whatever someone will pay. I'd pay way over the odds for my old one.