Lancia Motor Club

General => General Chat => Topic started by: AlanT on 10 January, 2021, 11:48:11 PM

Title: LPG/Petrol Lancias
Post by: AlanT on 10 January, 2021, 11:48:11 PM
I've was prompted to start this thread, as I've been reading the interesting thread on the electric fulvia. I didn't want to post there as I'm going a bit off topic here.

I live in Spain and I've been looking for quite a while, for a petrol Delta III (yes, you can get real ones here!). The problem for me is that the Delta III was never that popular in Spain and also, about 90% of the cars for sale are diesel. I prefer petrol as they are quieter and have lower particulate and NO/NO2 emissions. Due to the lack of choice (and just for fun) I decided to look on autoscout to see what was for sale in europe.

This was when I became aware of the relatively high number of 2nd hand LPG/petrol cars for sale in Italy. There are plenty Lancia Delta III LPG/petrol cars for sale. PLG and CNG sales peaked in Italy in 2009 at a staggering 22% of car sales (just a year after the Delta III was launched). This was apparently driven by purchase incentives and a scrappage scheme.

How good an option LPG is, depends on which country you live in. In Spain, LPG cars are very rare but there is still a useable infrastructure for re-fuelling.
Interest in LPG in Spain has increased slightly recently, due to restrictions on driving into Madrid and Barcelona city centre. You can get an 'ECO' label for your car if it's LPG, so you can drive anywhere without any restrictions. Over the next few years there will be further restrictions rolled out to other cities to improve air quality.

For someone like me, who is looking for a modern Lancia with lower emissions and the ability to drive into urban areas without restrictions or fines, perhaps an LPG/petrol is a good option. One which I hadn't really considered when I started looking. Also, in Spain, the running costs are much lower compared to petrol. I would prefer to have a Delta III which is a LPG/petrol car fitted by Lancia from new (ecochic model), but that means having to import one from Italy. Or, perhaps just buy a petrol car and get an LPG kit fitted at some point depending on impending restrictions in Valencia region where I live.

Also, I will be interesting to see what happens in the UK regarding restrctions in city centres over the next few years. Any thoughts?



Title: Re: LPG/Petrol Lancias
Post by: neil-yaj396 on 11 January, 2021, 08:09:35 AM
My employer bought a fleet of LPG Astras to use in the London Congestion Zone. A few people complained about poor running on the gas so no one ever filled them with LPG again right through to them being taken out of service. I suspect many were shy of using the LPG pump though.

I didn't know that Fiat ever produced factory LPG cars. I imagine that they should be pretty good though and you always have the back up of switching to petrol if you can't get gas.

Title: Re: LPG/Petrol Lancias
Post by: nyssa7 on 11 January, 2021, 09:36:23 AM
In the UK LPG pumps are being removed from my stations to make way for electric charging points, so probably not the fuel of the future any more. Add in reliability or not of the LPG apps to identify where it is/was sold and its nearly as much fun looking for an LPG refill as it is looking to charge an EV. Whether the petrol capability is still in place becomes important

Very relevant to me as an RV owner with lpg conversion that has now proven faulty, have to weigh up cost of repair against how much we use it, and availability of lpg

Title: Re: LPG/Petrol Lancias
Post by: AlanT on 11 January, 2021, 08:40:11 PM
Thanks for the replies. Yes, I would expect the LPG unit installed from new to be more reliable. However, I admit this idea would have made more sense a few years ago.
It's true, LPG isn't the fuel of the future and I haven't thought about filling stations looking for more space for EV charging. So, I guess it's likely I will end up buying a petrol Delta and I'll wait and see what happens with the restrictions. You can still buy new a LPG/Petrol Alfa Giulietta and Ford Fiesta in Spain, but probably not for much longer.

Actually, perhaps the restrictions in city centres might end up being a blessing in disguise. Driving in Spanish cities isn't much fun. Probably not as bad as Italy, but not for the faint hearted!



Title: Re: LPG/Petrol Lancias
Post by: DavidLaver on 12 January, 2021, 09:57:40 AM

Fascinating that it was a popular factory fit for that period in Italy.

How these sorts of things add up depend on very individual factors, such as do YOU have access to LPG and how much longer do you expect it to be there?  What are the alternatives to get into YOUR town centre? 

Resale and depreciation must be next to impossible to assess, but if its a "bangernomics" type calculation of running it until no longer worth repairing perhaps?

Its also going to depend if its "just the runabout" or you need it to take you long London many are doing those sums with electric cars that suit a work commute or school run but not the university drop offs or christmas with the inlaws.   Run a small electric and rent a van?  ZIP car?  Rentals?  "Airport run" type mini cabs? 

Title: Re: LPG/Petrol Lancias
Post by: AlanT on 12 January, 2021, 02:28:16 PM
My plan was to buy a Delta and keep it for as many years as possible. I wanted to have something of a reasonable size and comfort to drive long distances: holiday road trips to other parts of Spain and possibly a trip to the UK (AGM, GNW perhaps). I don't live in a city centre and don't need to travel to cities for work, so the restrictions are not so bad for me, so I' could just use a petrol car and give up on lower emissions.

However, I read on a Spainsh Lancia forum that someone who has a Delta III was thinking of geting an LPG conversion. He wants to use his Delta III (1742cc turbo petrol 200cv automatic) for as long as possible. He uses it for work which involves travelling to major cities. I wouldn't mind the type of engine he has, but they're like hens teeth in Spain. It was never made available as a Chysler Delta in the UK. It's an Alfa engine, only available in auto for the Delta.

I suspect he isn't so worried about whether he can fill it up with LPG. He just wants the ECO label for his car. No one is going to know if he's driving it on petrol or LPG at any given time. I suppose if all the LPG refuelling stations disappear the Spainsh government could remove the ECO status for these cars. However, the bureaucracy in Spain is so bad it could take them 10 years to sort that out, by which time he'll be driving around in an electric Delta IV........