Lancia Motor Club

General => General Chat => Topic started by: Paul Johnson on 17 April, 2020, 09:08:19 PM



Title: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: Paul Johnson on 17 April, 2020, 09:08:19 PM
What is the consensus on which is best?

and what thoughts are there on the over-wintering of a 50 year old Italian classic on a 2 post lift as opposed to a parking ramp?

Thanks

Paul


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: lancialulu on 17 April, 2020, 09:24:57 PM
Depends on your set up ie how much space you have. I had to go 4 post as had limited width. 2 post are much wider.

2 posts have a link bar across the floor, whereas a 4 post can (should) get enough height to have most medium classics pass under neath.

2 posts have the advantage you can immediately start working on all four wheels as they hang in free space.

I am sure there are other pros and cons ......


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: simonandjuliet on 18 April, 2020, 04:39:20 AM
For me it was space - I only had the 1 option, a 2 post.
As Tim suggests it gives clearer access for working , but for long term storage/parking I suspect a 4 would be better

Either way, it has made a world of difference to my car-care-comfort


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: Martin9 on 18 April, 2020, 08:40:22 AM
Paul,
I swear by a old Bradbury 4-post lift with wheels-free attachment. Mine was single phase, which was a bit slow but very convenient. Regrettably it was a victim of our downsizing a few years ago and it is very much missed.
Martin


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: SanRemo78 on 18 April, 2020, 08:54:20 AM
Might also be headroom critical? A 2 post will probably be shallower but it allows the wheels to droop. Can you still get car 2 underneath or would you need to remove a pair of wheels?
For me there was no choice, the garage is fairly narrow (or the car too wide with a short wheelbase) so I couldn't us a 2 post lift as the swing arms wouldn't clear the wheels or would have protruded too far into the garage because of internal brick piers. As it was the 4 post lift was too wide but the perfect length for my garage. The solution involved cutting 6 inches out of the centre of the front and rear and welding it back together. Then some jiggling to assemble it! It's actually the perfect width now for a Gp4 Stratos!
Guy


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: chriswgawne on 18 April, 2020, 09:11:47 AM
for me it was space which dictated a 2 post lift. One of the best things I have ever bought I have to say.
One other consideration is the floor load bearing.
Our garage in Italy was built for us 12 years ago with a thick layer of insulation in the floor. If I had gone down the 4 post route the floor loading would have probably been ok just down on the ceramic tiles and the concrete layers beneath but as my choice was a 2 post lift,  I had to dig down and construct deep floor pads with larger deeper studs set in these pads in 2 pack resin for safety's sake.
Chris


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: lancialulu on 18 April, 2020, 09:32:36 AM
for me it was space which dictated a 2 post lift. One of the best things I have ever bought I have to say.
One other consideration is the floor load bearing.
Our garage in Italy was built for us 12 years ago with a thick layer of insulation in the floor. If I had gone down the 4 post route the floor loading would have probably been ok just down on the ceramic tiles and the concrete layers beneath but as my choice was a 2 post lift,  I had to dig down and construct deep floor pads with larger deeper studs set in these pads in 2 pack resin for safety's sake.
Chris
Good point about loading. That was another consideration as my garage was also recently constructed of c100m reinforced concrete over similar depth insulation picking up on deep foundations. I guess I would still have gone down the 4 post route for this reason if width had not been a further issue. I suppose having a pit I never though a lift was critical. Only when a friend was selling a lightly used strongman low level 4 post for a reasonable sum I jumped at it. Rather than putting in extra foundations I had to reconfigure a steel roof tie bar so it did not squash my car on full lift.... Not sure my B12 will get underneath..... If I am desperate I can park it on it and move the ramps to the other end to drive it into the back of my garage....


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: Paul Johnson on 18 April, 2020, 09:07:06 PM
I am in the (fortunate) position of being able to go either way in terms of space/height etc. My primary issue is whether it is "ok" to keep an old car 🚗 off the ground suspended on its lifting points for a season a la a 2 post lift, rather than on it's four wheels -as it was designed and as would be the case if stored  for periods on a 4 poster?
I gather one advantage is that removal of wheels on a 2 post lift is straight forward as they dangle, but a jacking mechanism solves that problem on a 4 poster doesn't it!

The issue of cost might be a further factor; I'm unsure how they compare, but 2 posters seen more popular and obtainable and therefore maybe cheaper? They also appear to come up 2nd hand more often, but there again I'm not keen in raising my pride and joy up 3 meters off the ground on something that I can't be confident in😳
Thanks for your thoughts.
Paul


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: SanRemo78 on 18 April, 2020, 09:30:09 PM
I bought my 4 poster very second hand but overhauled with new lift cables. Installed it cost £1000 including a phase converter. It's been modified slightly - narrowed a little to fit the width of the garage - and with extra holes on each post for a bar to be inserted just in case the worst should happen.



Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: frankxhv773t on 19 April, 2020, 11:34:24 AM
If your priority is accessibility for working, particularly if stripping suspension I would choose a 2 post but if it's mainly raised storage 4 post seems more natural.


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: DavidLaver on 19 April, 2020, 04:26:12 PM

What could go wrong dangling the wheels...   What limits travel?   Does anything nasty happen to dampers on full extension?

In terms of the structure of course it SHOULD be fine, and unless you're next to a busy railway to vibrate it constantly once its up and sagged that should be it.  Having said that I left an MG Midget in a garage one winter to open up in spring to find the sill covers had popped.  That same car went through a modern MOT (no poking) only for half the floor to come out with the seats when wanting to change the handbrake cable.  Underseal fine, paint inside fine, steel between the two dead.

The other worry is drips and dribbles onto the car below, and if the car below was covered that the cover was a benefit not a curse.


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: lancialulu on 19 April, 2020, 04:38:13 PM
If it is an HF Fulvia on full dangle that would mess up the top ball joint and its boot and also distort the cv boot and possibly pull it off if dangling for some time!

For storing a car 4 post is probably the best option as the only thing under stress are the tyres and this is overcome by increasing the pressure to c 35psi.

I personally would choose 4 post over 2 as you are relying on strong points on an old car of possible unknown internal structural integrity (excluding cars of course that have already been thoroughly structurally restored).

As you say working on wheels and suspension on a four post is made simple with a beam jack, and a four post can be made to do corner weighting, suspension setup etc just like garages....


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: chriswgawne on 19 April, 2020, 04:58:45 PM
Yes Tim,
A 4 post would have been my first choice but in use my 2 post worksd very well.
And oil leaks? What oil leaks? Old Lancias don't leak oil!
Chris


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: lancialulu on 19 April, 2020, 08:36:05 PM
Chris makes a good point about "the car below". Most 4 posters have section drip trays that can be fitted in the gap between the ramps.....


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: Jai Sharma on 19 April, 2020, 10:09:17 PM
I also pondered this but went with a four post ramp in the end. I was worried about the depth of foundation required for a two post. My four post can also be moved around on wheels if required. I chose a small four poster from SJR garage equipment, who also came and installed it. It also has drip trays. I'm not sure I'd be happy with an old car sitting over winter on a two poster. The Fulvia engine is quite far forward and there isn't a lot of weight at the back.
I have a beam jack in case I need it although it is primarily for storage benefits. I really ought to have bought mine years ago.....


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: DavidLaver on 20 April, 2020, 12:59:59 PM
Just looked at the SJR site - then there are the SINGLE post lifts...and also two posts up one end.  This one also has a deck.

https://www.garageequipmentonline.com/products/parking-lifts/2_7-tonne-2-post-parking-lift

The single post is "mobile".  I'd guess assuming a polished concrete floor.

https://www.garageequipmentonline.com/products/single-post-lifts/geo-spm2500-single-post-mobile-lift-2_5-ton

Off topic - but also scissor lifts. 

https://www.garageequipmentonline.com/products/scissor-lifts/mid-rise-scissor-lift-with-mobile-trolley-attachment


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: lancialulu on 20 April, 2020, 03:30:14 PM
scissor lift??? cant drive under it??


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: Kevinlincs on 20 April, 2020, 08:31:49 PM
Really depends on what you'd want to use it for.
As someone who has spent 35+ years under car lifts they both have advantages and disadvantages.
If it's purely to store a car then either would do the job but I fully agree with earlier comments about suspension being left on full droop could stress the ball joints and the rubber components like CV boots and ball joint covers. Would it hurt the shock absorbers on full droop? Not sure, never tried leaving them in that position but could go either way there.
Cars parked on wheels for any length of time can damage the tyres as it creates a flat spot where the tread, and hence the steel plies are held in an unnatural (for them) position so it can create a "flat spot" in the tyre. This would indeed be avoided with a 2 post lift, but nothing stopping the car being rolled back a quarter wheel rotation every few weeks on a 4 poster, would help to move the brake pads from sitting in the same location on the discs too to prevent them sticking to the disc face.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned much yet is safety.

2 post lifts are far more dangerous than 4 post ones, yes ropes can break on the 4 post ones but there are mechanical arrestors on them to stop it falling more than a few inches. The Bradbury 2 post lift we have at work has (like most of them) a threaded bar up inside each post which rotates inside the arm supports which raises the lift, the bar across the bottom under the little ramps (sometimes above) contains a gear shaft that rotates the other side lift, a motor drives just one side.

The issue with that is the nut wears on the lifting arm so needs careful measuring for wear to prevent the ramp slipping down the threaded bar inside the lift post. Sound implausible? Ask me how I know, because I was stood 2 feet behind a car being raised on the lift when one side collapsed dropping like a stone. Luckily it had only raised a couple of feet and wasn't at full height or I wouldn't be here to tell the tale.
OK a rare event but I just don't trust them anymore which is why it hardly gets used anymore despite them being very handy for doing suspension work as access is far better than with a 4 poster.

Also consider with a 2 post lift how unstable they are, the ramp will move considerably as it flexes on it's frame, as much a s3 or 4 inches of travel at either end of the car up and down! You also really should ratchet strap the car to the lift to prevent it falling off, check YouTube for the many disasters...

As I say though, depends what you are going to use it for.


Title: Re: 2 or 4 post lift?
Post by: Kevinlincs on 20 April, 2020, 08:43:44 PM
Oh, and mobile lift you mentioned means it is mobile to move to where you have the car, not that you can move the lift with a car on it. The wheels will most likely be sprung loaded so once the weight goes on it they retract and the ramp sits down on the non moveable parts, like a jacking beam does on a 4 post lift



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Y-JTI3gzs