Lancia Motor Club

General => General Chat => Topic started by: lanciab20 on 20 March, 2020, 11:18:38 AM



Title: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: lanciab20 on 20 March, 2020, 11:18:38 AM
Proposal to introduce petrol containing up to 10% ethanol (E10)

UK government has launched a consultation on the introduction of petrol with up to 10% ethanol.  In many cases this could mean the withdrawal of E5 as many filling stations will not have the ability to stock an extra grade.

This is not good news for the older vehicle because E10 may cause some flexible fuel hoses, seals, gaskets, plastics and certain metals critical to the fuel system to corrode or degrade. This may cause damage to fuel pumps, carburettors, seals on injectors, pressure regulators and fuel tanks that are not resistant to ethanol. The bioethanol may also dislodge particles on older fuel systems causing blockages.  For details of FBHVC position see https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/news/article/e10-fuels-consultation-fbhvc-position-statement 

For details of the consultation document see https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/introducing-e10-petrol.


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: fay66 on 20 March, 2020, 01:09:19 PM
Proposal to introduce petrol containing up to 10% ethanol (E10)

UK government has launched a consultation on the introduction of petrol with up to 10% ethanol.  In many cases this could mean the withdrawal of E5 as many filling stations will not have the ability to stock an extra grade.

This is not good news for the older vehicle because E10 may cause some flexible fuel hoses, seals, gaskets, plastics and certain metals critical to the fuel system to corrode or degrade. This may cause damage to fuel pumps, carburettors, seals on injectors, pressure regulators and fuel tanks that are not resistant to ethanol. The bioethanol may also dislodge particles on older fuel systems causing blockages.  For details of FBHVC position 8) see https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/news/article/e10-fuels-consultation-fbhvc-position-statement 

For details of the consultation document see https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/introducing-e10-petrol.

I lost the will to live reading it.
I suspect the 5% will go the same way as leaded, very limited availability, more expensive, and finally became unavailable.
And we'll all wind up using some sort of additive.
Brian
8227


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: Neil on 20 March, 2020, 03:04:02 PM
Alternatively use the higher octane more expensive fuels which supposedly have no added ethanol, will that change in the future in terms of availability and added ethanol?


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: lancialulu on 20 March, 2020, 06:21:22 PM
Alternatively use the higher octane more expensive fuels which supposedly have no added ethanol, will that change in the future in terms of availability and added ethanol?

V Power has 5% now!
All those peeps who just have a classic in the garage and dont understand this stuff will find out these toys now will cost a lot to put right after burst fuel lines or worse.


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: will on 22 March, 2020, 05:45:43 PM
Many classic cars will be able to use E10 fuel. In the US E10 has been standard petrol
for the last two decades. Perhaps we should ask our US friends?
There is good article in Octane this month on the subject.


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: Lightweight_911 on 22 March, 2020, 06:31:09 PM
.

I use Esso Synergy Supreme+ (Unleaded 97) - which is ethanol free - in each of my 'Classics' ...

.


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: lancialulu on 22 March, 2020, 10:20:00 PM
.

I use Esso Synergy Supreme+ (Unleaded 97) - which is ethanol free - in each of my 'Classics' ...

.

Thats interesting, but every time I have used Esso 97 (supreme) in my hi compression 1600engined Fulvia they pink badly when hot. Shell does not pink. Hence I think I will stick with Shell whose app allows pay at pump through my phone.....


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: Lightweight_911 on 23 March, 2020, 08:47:08 AM
.

I've not experienced any problems with using Esso Synergy Supreme+ in my cars - including my '59 Giulietta Sprint which has a  compression ration of 11.5:1.

However one of the problems I've found over the past 4-5 years in particular is that modern fuels seem to 'go off' much quicker & this is more apparent (& can be more of a problem) in 'classic' cars with relatively primitive fuel intake systems compared to modern cars with computer-controlled metering.

This can manifest itself when the cars are used relatively infrequently & fuel remains in the system for several weeks/months ...

.


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: Charles Frodsham on 23 March, 2020, 10:49:04 AM
Watch this for some interesting information regarding ethanol in petrol.

https://youtu.be/wOxxPYLhBhM

Also concludes that Esso 97 doesnít have ethanol in it.

Regarding pinking....it would be necessary to change the timing to compensate.





Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: lancialulu on 23 March, 2020, 10:57:56 AM
Also concludes that Esso 97 doesnít have ethanol in it.

Regarding pinking....it would be necessary to change the timing to compensate

Other fuels dont pink so I choose those to maintain the performance of the engine.... All timing is spot on..

I am sure that esso will fall into line in due course. Its all a matter of time.


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: Charles Frodsham on 23 March, 2020, 12:16:39 PM
I too run my cars on V power. My HF has been set up on the rolling road with this fuel, and it doesnít pink.

However, I am interested in what affect ethanol has on performance. So we were going to run on the same rolling road with Esso 97 to see if and what difference might be apparent. Unfortunately, this is now on hold due to the current situation, but we will do the test at some point.





Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: Richard Fridd on 26 March, 2020, 03:54:23 PM
There is a book advertised, called 'Classic Engines, Modern Fuel' by Paul Ireland. How to mitigate the effects of ethenol-blend petrol on carburettor-equipped classics. Sounds interesting.


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: chriswgawne on 26 March, 2020, 05:40:39 PM
Am I correct in saying that hand in hand with a higher % of ethanol goes increased volatility and therefore a greater tendency for the fuel to vaporise in hot conditions?
Our beige 4th series B20 which we have had on the road since 1978 never used to suffer fuel vaporisation and yet now it is fairly common in traffic in N Italy in the summer. And anecdotally several other Aurelia owners ( with the carb nicely nestled in the middle of the 'V' ) have increasingly the same problem.
I am not aware of any additive which can help with this.
Chris


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: fay66 on 27 March, 2020, 10:44:30 AM
You will also enjoy the benefits of poorer fuel consumption with E10 according to the document.
So crap fuel, with lots of problems, and with poorer fuel consumption, Great >:(
Brian
8227
 8)


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: Neil on 27 March, 2020, 11:20:40 AM
Ethanol still contains carbon, I am unsure by how much the CO2 emissions will be lowered if ethanol contains approx. 34% less energy per unit volume than regular fuel, the engine become less efficient and will use more fuel.  But, I have found since ethanol has a higher octane rating, the engine can be made more efficient by raising its compression ratio, but that might not be an option to for us.   


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: Charles Frodsham on 13 November, 2020, 10:01:41 AM
I have for the last few months been using ESSO 97 (no ethanol) instead V-Power (5% ethanol) with no issues.

I went to refill the tank yesterday at my usual garage and it appears that Esso have upgraded their fuel from 97 to 99. (Synergy 99)

It still contains NO Ethanol!

(note that it still says E5 on the pump, but ESSO themselves say it contains no ethanol unless in Devon or Cornwall.....see website below

Surely this is what we have all been waiting for?

https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels/petrol


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: Richard Fridd on 20 September, 2021, 08:22:37 PM
Has anyone here used 'Tygon' brand of hose? It is a translucent yellow colour, and I have read it is suitable for modern petrol. Richard


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: mikeC on 21 September, 2021, 07:14:16 AM
My daily is an elderly Hyundai, which is, apparently, safe to run on E10. For the last fifteen years I have regularly filled up with 30 litres, and have consistently got around 220-240 miles per fill. The last three fills have been with E10, and my mileage has been 204 miles, 187 miles, and 196 miles. I have not noticed any alteration in performance, but with E10 at 139 pence per litre and E5 at 149 pence per litre, simple economics dictates that I will be using E5 in future!


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: nyssa7 on 21 September, 2021, 07:28:53 AM
Interesting that, my Toyota iQ is freshly serviced and now struggling to indicate 40mpg when high 40s was the norm and low 50s possible. Might not be the same usage as usual, will need to take it on a run or two and see if that makes a difference. Otherwise Iíll be getting the calculator out to see if it needs a diet of Super to save money


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: neil-yaj396 on 21 September, 2021, 07:49:11 AM
Has anyone here used 'Tygon' brand of hose? It is a translucent yellow colour, and I have read it is suitable for modern petrol. Richard

I've been doing some polling on the Betaboyz Forum re fuel hose after E5 ate through the pump to filter hose on my Beta. Codan and Gates are most recommended. The latter is available at a good price on Ebay. Codan is more expensive.


Title: Re: Proposal to introduce petrol with up to 10% Ethanol (E10)
Post by: Richard Fridd on 24 September, 2021, 12:11:04 PM
Interesting that, my Toyota iQ is freshly serviced and now struggling to indicate 40mpg when high 40s was the norm and low 50s possible. Might not be the same usage as usual, will need to take it on a run or two and see if that makes a difference. Otherwise Iíll be getting the calculator out to see if it needs a diet of Super to save money
                      So the necessary more frequent refuelling negates the reduction in negative environmental impact? Is that partly correct? Richard