Lancia Motor Club

Model Technical and Interest => Fulvia => Topic started by: chriswgawne on 25 May, 2018, 09:51:56 AM



Title: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 25 May, 2018, 09:51:56 AM
Before anyone thinks I am trying to be clever, I can confirm I have Simon's permission to entitle this thread as I have. Thank you Simon.

Jacky and I have been continuous Fulvia owners since 1972 of one model or another - but mainly 1600cc Coupes and Sports -  and indeed she learned to drive in the early 70's in a lhd Fulvia 2C which became our family car until some idiot wrote it off with his Alfasud. There are other references to our 2C  in the 'Harry Manning' section of 'Lancia in Britain'.

And these days our lovely rhd Berlina GTE ( thank you Sebastien) gives us sterling service on a daily basis in Italy being used also for holidays each year in Tuscany with the family and Elba for just the 2 of us. Our other 'daily driver' in Italy is usually our Aurelia B12 as both cars can accomodate our many visitors.

So, to the point of the thread.
Its not often these days that motoring things in my life truly excite me but yesterday was such a day. Our new addition was collected from a transport depot near Vicenza by Giuseppe, my local breakdown truck man, having been transported there from Portugal in an artic along with a large collect of new and used Fulvia spare parts. I collected the spare parts in a hired Mercedes Sprinter van which was just large enough to accommodate them.
The car is a dark blue  rhd 1967 32,000 mile one owner car which was last on the road in Portugal in 1990. It went to Portugal in the 80's I think and was registered there although the UK Registration wasnt cancelled so I have a V5 which is helpful. I have the original invoice for the car from new and the bodywork is in 'as new condition' as is the interior. The seats which are off white have been covered from new and the door cards all still have their clear plastic covering.
The engine is in pieces (probably since 1990?)  and no-one seems to know why but all the parts are there including a fully built head with new valves along with at least one complete spare engine. There is also a good used 818.302 1300cc engine for sale locally here about 20 minutes away for 400 so I am not too worried about that. Obviously the brakes need a complete overhaul but I have all the parts for that on my shelves already. I wont however be getting stuck in just yet as there are an awful lot of new and used spares to sort through and our vines and fruit trees take quite a lot of time at this time of the year not to mention visitors.
I was reminded of the car possibly being still available during a chat with a well known LMC member in January when I said that I would ideally like to find a second really good rhd Fulvia Berlina, either GT or GTE (thank you Tim) and it took 3 months to negotiate, view and buy the car and spares from the late owners Estate and then 3 weeks or so to organise transportation. Its a long way to S Portugal from the UK and Italy - about 1,500 miles - and I was ultimately put off doing the trip myself using a Sprinter van + trailer by a driver who told me of the high incidence of theft, damage and worse on the Spanish section onthe motorway which runs along the Mediterranean coast.

No photographs just yet as its a little dirty and full of spare parts but I am really pleased to report that the paint on the horizontal surfaces which had a lots of dust and dirt and bird droppings on them seem to be 100% after a careful wash and T cut.

And finally I have a complete set of perfect 100% rust free S1 Berlina complete doors, bonnet and bootlid for sale at a knockdown price as well as a perfect rust free 'as new' Fulvia subframe.


Chris

 



Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: lancianut666 on 25 May, 2018, 09:56:55 AM
Get that camera going!
Clarkey


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 May, 2018, 10:26:39 AM
The quote for me was "Its not often these days that motoring things in my life truly excite me but yesterday was such a day."

Am DELIGHTED for you - and of course am looking forward to the story from here...


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: DavidLaver on 25 May, 2018, 10:27:26 AM

...and even ten years ago if told such a car would bring you that much joy would you have believed them?


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: the.cern on 25 May, 2018, 12:43:26 PM
Chris, what an absolute gem ....... and there is no-one better able to make the most of it than you!!!

I am certain that it will bring you and Jacky huge enjoyment and, like David, I cannot wait to read the story!!!

Andy


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: stanley sweet on 25 May, 2018, 02:22:05 PM
It's great that these cars with plastic door coverings etc and such low mileage are still out there. The longer these cars stay out of the hands of 'investors' the better.


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: williamcorke on 25 May, 2018, 09:56:59 PM
Sounds terrific Chris, I look forward to photos.


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: Justin McArdle on 26 May, 2018, 06:57:29 AM
Congratulations Chris. I was very interested in this Fulvia in Portugal but things sort of ground to a halt with the solicitor involved. It great news that this Fulvia has gone to a good home - I was concerned that it may disappear into the Portuguese ether!!
I subsequently bought my LHD 2c - which is with me currently in Gent, Belgium for the weekend. Travelled from London to Bruges and then to Gent yesterday in considerable comfort on half a tank of petrol!
I would be very interested in the spare parts. Let me know what you have to sell when you have sorted through the the tea chests etc!
I will PM you with me contact details.
Congratulations on saving another Berlina!,


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 27 May, 2018, 05:47:19 PM
I am working my way through the various bits and pieces that came with the car. Its all a bit of a jumble and yesterday was spent emptying the boot and interior of the car which were full of wishbones, interior bits and pieces, trim pieces and front and rear screens all of which are in pretty good condition even if previously used. Quite a lot of stuff is brand new  and I am trying to put aside everything I will need to bring it back to life.
I am not quite ready to post any detailed photos yet as the car is very dirty but this will change shortly.
The engine in the car is not actually the original one ( which I have - see later) but it is correct being a 818.202 variant of 1231cc. The cylinder head and sump are off the engine , the underbonnet area including the subframe, cast aluminium uprights and gearbox are spotless ( I think the whole subframe assembly has been unbolted, cleaned and painted) and the cylinder head has new valves and has been lightly skimmed so I think the engine was in the process of being rebuilt when work stopped in 1990.
I have a pair of Dellorto 35DHLAs which I will fit as well as a pair of original Solex 32s and for safetys sake I will take the pistons out before re-assembling. The bores look ok but are very slightly scored and the pistons are a snug fit.
I have the original 818.202 engine number 2510 and it looks to me as if the bores have been honed or maybe even lightly rebored as they are perfect but covered in dry anti corrosion coating which I don't want to disturb just yet. I have a new set of 75.16 pistons and rings (is this first oversize?) and 2 sets of conrods and shells so potentially I have enough bits to fully rebuild a 100% spare engine.
The puzzle is what happened to need all this engine work on a car which has only done 32,000 miles? In all the Fulvias we have owned which must be about 20 over the last 46 years I have never had to rebuild a whole engine. Valve guides maybe ( and our GTE could do with them but I am running it on fully synthetic 10W40 oil  which I use in all our cars from Aurelia to Porsche 911 twin turbo) but never lower down the engine. Was there a spate of  broken piston rings possibly as I have a set of used standard pistons with some rings missing.
I also interestingly can see that our 1968 GTE has some slightly cheaper fittings that the 1967 GT which is currently parked next door to it. Maybe a case of cost cutting?
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: Parisien on 28 May, 2018, 11:51:27 AM
Sounds as if you'd a lot of fun during the chase, great to hear of your new purchase , especially as it seems a cracker and has lots of potential, will follow thread with interest.


P


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 18 June, 2018, 03:27:18 PM
The large load of S1 Fulvia Berlina parts for the UK was loaded this morning for delivery to the various buyers later this week so I can get back to bringing the Fulvia GT back to life as it was last on the road in 1990.
The body of the car is completely original and unmarked (apart from a couple of scratches on the lower half of the drivers door and the leading edge of the bonnet which were picked up in transit from Portugal which my local bodyshop here run by 2 brothers will sort out) and is incredibly clean and new looking underneath.
The bumpers have no dents, the brightwork is very good  and all the light lenses are bright and clear and all the electrics seem to work.
Consequently it is a joy to work on.
So far I have done no cosmetic work whatsoever concentrating mainly on completely overhauling the braking and fuel system.
The previous (first) owner had fitted additional Lancia badges on the rear which I have removed and for some reason he has fitted a pair of desirable 1600HF rear number plate lights to complement the number plate lights in the bumper. I don't like these but if I remove them there will be 3 holes on each side of the new number plate to be plugged so for the moment I will leave these.

There were a couple of additional gauges fitted under the dashboard which I have taken out ( voltmeter and vacuum gauge) and I have also removed all the additional wiring and pipes associated with these. The previous owner did a good job of fitting them tidily so they have come out without leaving a mess.
The car has 5 new tyres - Falken Sincera SN832 165/80 R14 85 T @ 49 each delivered exactly as fitted to our GTE -   and my local tyre fitters fitted and balanced these with new tubes and disposed of all the old stuff for 120.

I have overhauled the brake system completely fitting sleeved wheel cylinders which I already had together with a resealed 18mm rhd master cylinder. RHD brake master cylinders are not available new and whilst it is possible to fit a lhd one at an angle its preferable to fit the correct thing. I have a few rhd master cylinders in vgc dismantled on my shelves packed in airtight dry containers to preserve them.
Two of the 3 flexible brake lines had collapsed and were blocked so I replaced all 3.
The fuel tank was about 1/2 full of horrible 28 year old fuel and the fuel tank sender looked like a Christmas Tree being covered in crystals and firmly stuck but lots of patience and Plus Gas has meant that it is now working fine.
I am now about to start on the engine and it would be nice to think that it might be running for when the family arrive for 3 weeks visit (when all car work obviously stops) but its far too hot now to work on the car between about 11.00am and 5.00pm and there is work to do on our vines and fruit trees which must take precedence.
Sorry for the lack of photos but I will put some up when it is running and after I have given it a good wash, clean and polish.
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: the.cern on 18 June, 2018, 03:43:09 PM
Chris, this all sounds absolutely brilliant ........ you obviously have a gem and are in the perfect situation to recommission it. I love the reference to the "...previous (first) owner ....".

                                              Andy


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 28 June, 2018, 11:20:05 AM
With our 'new' Fulvia GT which had been standing for > 28 years, in renovating the brake system I fitted a set of wheel cylinders which I had used a local Surrey workshop to fit pressed in stainless steel inserts many years ago.
I fitted the renovated wheel cylinders with new rubber seals and dust covers about 10 days ago and also fitted a good 18mm original master cylinder off my shelves and having bled the brakes using pressure, I had a firm pedal. Obviously I fitted new pads as well and interestingly the discs on the car show no wear or corrosion.
So the wheel cylinder pistons and seals were therefore sitting well down in their respective cylinders.

I then continued with other aspects of the work needed on the car but noticed yesterday that the brake fluid level had fallen slightly.
I topped up the fluid then pressed on the pedal long and hard....and suddenly it went to the floor. My initial reaction was that a hose had burst but they are all new.
On closer inspection I discovered that the ss insert  on the inside front lhs wheel cylinder had been pushed up the cylinder walls by pressure and was standing proud and because the piston was well down ( new pads and unworn discs) the sleeve had actually ridden  up over the seal.
The other 3 front wheel cylinders seem to be fine and I have fitted a brand new unused one in place of the faulty one.
I seem to remember John Savage having a problem with his Aurelia with fluid loss between the sleeve and wheel cylinder which was sorted out by using adhesive and I am wondering with this slightly different problem whether I can save this cylinder by extracting the sleeve and then gluing it back in?
And if so, what sort of adhesive? Maybe Araldite or similar? Or is it not worth the risk?
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: lancianut666 on 28 June, 2018, 04:34:51 PM
Hmmm pressed in liners for calipers...went that way many years ago with my Flavia coupe...what could go wrong? never underestimate the force of hydraulics the sleeve was just forced out and we had brake fluid everywhere. I bought replacements from my local motor factor as they were the same as MkII Jags
Clarkey


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 30 June, 2018, 12:26:57 PM
Interesting  and useful PM response to the brake sleeve problem using a Loctite product which appears to have been designed for just this sort of issue.
Well done the forum.
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 30 June, 2018, 12:48:26 PM
Well today was the day that this lovely original 33,000 dry miles car was back ion the road again after 28 years + off the road.
There is absolutely no trace of any rust anywhere and all the paintwork is original. The interior had seat cover (now removed) and the clear plastic door coverings are still there.
There was a last minute problem with the mechanical fuel pump appearing to fail even though I had run the engine in the workshop for quite a few minutes on and off over the last week whilst attending to other last minute niggles another of which was a 'stuck closed' water stat.
Today I suspect that one of the one way valves in the fuel pump  stuck with debris having accumulated there so rather than try to fix the pump the quickest thing to do was to fit an OE FISPA reconditioned pump off my shelves. I had a new repro Fulvia pump as well but I had fitted new valves and a new membrane to the old FISPA one ( as well as a few others I have ) which I prefer so I went with that.

Its nice to see good oil pressure and a quiet engine having rebuilt it and the Dellorto 35s don't seem to be too big for the 1231cc engine.

Its a lovely taut car to drive with slightly lighter steering than our GTE for some reason even though its on the same tyres and pressures. Also very quiet as its has a standard 40mm centre section exhaust unlike the GTE which has a modified Coupe 50mm dia centre section and the previous owner of the GT had fitted an electric fan removing the mechanical one. I have left this in place for the moment to see how we get on with it. I don't like the thermostat arrangement on the car - the fan and stat were made by an obscure English mfr  - so I might well change that for a Kenlowe stat and control.

The niggle list now is very short and mostly trivial so we will drive it each day checking everything is OK after each drive until its clear that all is well.

A couple of iffy photos are attached which hopefully show how original is it inside and out and also under the bonnet.
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: Justin McArdle on 30 June, 2018, 04:05:45 PM
Looks great, Chris. Congratulations


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 30 June, 2018, 04:31:13 PM
Thanks Justin. Very kind.Ref my earlier post on the moving dunlop wheel cylinder sleeve, here is a photo of the offending item.
I should be able to sort this out with the earlier advice I received.
So now, apart from further minor niggles and tidying up I have a spare 818.202 1231cc GT engine to build. The block has been lightly honed and there is no 'step' at the top of the bores or any sign of bore damage and the bottom end looks afine so I will fit a set of lightly used standard pistons using new small ends and new standard piston rings (which I ordered last Monday and received the following day from Cavalitto).
The head for this engine looks fine with good unworn cams, chain cogs etc and I have a set of new springs so I imagine I will refit the old valves having reground them in of course unless there is any appreciable wear in the valve guides and valve stems.

Not sure whether to go the whole hog and bolt the head down, fit the distributor and timing chain and time it or leave the head loose? It will be a nice small winters project anywhich way round. I dont foresee any situation where I will end up using this spare engine but one never knows.
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: Parisien on 30 June, 2018, 04:49:19 PM
Looks great, Chris. Congratulations

Another little gem, and its found its way into the right hands, am sure once completely fettled to your very high standards it will be another source of enjoyment, keep up the good work.

P


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: fay66 on 30 June, 2018, 06:12:23 PM
Interesting  and useful PM response to the brake sleeve problem using a Loctite product which appears to have been designed for just this sort of issue.
Well done the forum.
Chris

Which one Chris,
I'd have thought bearing fit would do the job.
Brian
8227  8)


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 30 June, 2018, 06:40:56 PM
I am going to use Loctite 638 Brian with excellent shear strength for the tolerances my cylinder appears to have been machined to.
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: fay66 on 30 June, 2018, 08:39:04 PM
I am going to use Loctite 638 Brian with excellent shear strength for the tolerances my cylinder appears to have been machined to.
Chris
What a beauty Chris, I hope you have many years of pleasure with her.
I'll look up Loctite 638, I haven't heard of that one.

What is the yellow cable across the top of the carburettors that is connected to the water manifold?
Brian
8227  8)


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 01 July, 2018, 05:57:52 AM
Thanks Brian.
It's the temperature sensor for the electric fan. The control is under the dashboard with a manual override but I don't like it and I haven't proved it works reliably although the fan itself seems fine.
I have a Kenlowe stat and control somewhere so when I remember where I put it I will fit that.
Your eagle eyes will also have seen the extra red cable on the lhs. This is a switched feed for an electric fuel pump which I have removed as it was a little untidy and not necessary in my opinion.

Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: DavidLaver on 01 July, 2018, 08:36:04 AM
http://www.loctite.co.uk/loctite-4087.htm?nodeid=8802627616769


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: Sebastien on 01 July, 2018, 01:28:59 PM
Chris,

Your new Fulvia looks beautiful, compliments! It is so nice and rare to see an unrestored, unmessed with Fulvia Berlina in perfect condition! Especially the underbonnet shot, with all those clean painted surfaces shows the condition of your car well.

Do you intend to keep the "just out of the dealership" look, or will you take off the plastic protection of the door panels? And will you keep those rear view mirrors? They are certainly useful, but ....

I look forward to your driving impressions, especially with the Dellortos, and a comparison with the braking behaviour of your GTE (which if I remember well has a Servo).

Sebastien


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 01 July, 2018, 03:03:55 PM
Thanks Sebastien,
Interesting comments from you and thank you.
As you know I don't believe in pristine cars - they are meant to be driven after all  -  so the plastic door card coverings will be coming off just like the seat covers which were in place when it arrived.
The brake pedal feel is slightly different to the GTE as its servo leads to increased pedal travel and a certain softness whereas the GTE's pedal is firm with short travel. The brake master cylinder in the GTE is 19mm internal diameter whereas the GT's is 18mm internal diameter - these are as they were when the cars were built.

It will be difficult to give a balanced view on the Dellorto 35s I think but I am pleased to have used them even though on the face of it they are a little large. I have fitted jet sizes recommended for the 818.302 1298cc Fulvia engine and am prepared to downsize them a little. If I cant get them to work to my satisfaction I have the option of fitting them to the GTE and fitting a virtually brand new pair of correct Solex 32s on my shelf to the GT.


The rear view mirrors are actually a bit of a problem which I only realised when the car arrived here. On the GTE I have a pair of ARCA mirrors which I really like and which sit well forward but very much on the 'outside' of the wings so they are useful whereas the mirrors on the GT are definitely not to my liking stylewise and  more importantly they are fitted 'on top' of the front wings so ARCA mirrors (which I have) will not really work.
This is another problem on my list to solve at my leisure but the main thing now is to drive the car around locally to prove everything is working properly.
Chris



 


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: fay66 on 02 July, 2018, 01:41:45 AM
Hi Chris,
I agree with you on the positioning of the mirrors on top of the wings, they're much too far inboard to see a lot!
Back in the 1960's one of the OEM Manufacturers of wing mirrors had a wing mirror the you could undo a screw at the back of the arm, that allowed the arm to be rotated so you could extend the mirror itself outwards, so it being fitted on top of the wing wasn't a problem, but to move these onto the side of the wing means filling holes in a prominent position, so perhaps better to live with them.
I know many owners have changed the series 1 mechanical fan for an electric fan, as the electric fan is more efficient and makes less noise! However I've never been tempted as I think the series 1 pillar and fan are such a lovely work of art, and to be honest I've never had a problem of it not doing its job, even climbing the Alps or the Pyrenees.
Just wondering if Dellorto 35's are a bit big for the 1231cc engine, or did it have 35 solexes as standard?.
I fitted 32 DHLB's to Fay about 15 years ago and they are so much nicer than the Solexes, purely from being better built, there's never been an improvement in performance, but Fay runs so much nicer on them, and I can't remember the last time I had to have them tuned.
My Eagle eye missed the wire for the electric fuel pump, but it did notice the missing fipsa sticker on the air cleaner😲.
I have an electric fuel pump just for priming, otherwise the engine churns over forever before starting, while if I prime the carburettors first, she starts first time, unlike most pump isn't visible and is mountedcc adjacent to to fuel tank.
It's also handy to have it as backup in the fairly unlikely event of a problem with the mechanical pump.
It may just be a coincidence but my engine was totally rebuilt at 28,000 miles when a Piston ring broke and scored a bore, however when the engine was stripped, there was also an oil leak between the crankcase and block adjacent to the oil filter, where the oil passes through the gasket to the head, on early cars, Fay was built halfway through 1965, the oil pressure could push the gasket sideways causing an oil leak.
Lancia brought out a modification to the crankcase face to add a roll pin at this point which allowed the oil to be fed up through the hollow pin, but the pin stopped the gasket being moved by the oil pressure, I have a copy of the bulletin for the modification and I think, without looking, that another pin was added on the other side as well.
While the engine was being rebuilt the modifications were carried out.
I would have thought that by the time your 1231cc engine was built that problem would have been long gone, but you never know.
Once again Chris it is beautiful and I'm very envious.
Brian
8227
 8)


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 02 July, 2018, 11:09:20 AM
I had the same block/crankcase gasket failure on the GTE which was remedied by the modification you mention Brian and on the GT engine there were rollpins already there on disassembly.
The Dellorto DHLB35 carbs I have were originally sold and jetted for Fulvias with the 1298cc  818.302 engine but I have reduced accelerator, slow running and air corrector jets as marked on the attached original carb labels and running around in the car this morning - my second drive in it! - it seems to be fine.
Regarding the electric fan, I am going to fit a bulb type thermostatic controller but I might well go back to the original fen belt driven electric fan as to my mind, it is less likely to give trouble in the future.

The wing mirrors are beginning to grate with me already but I think they will look slightly better rotated through 180 degrees. Perhaps round mirrors in the same overall style would look more appropriate or maybe I just fit the ARCA mirrors and accept the fact that they might look better but they wont actually improve rear vision?

Chris   


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 02 July, 2018, 11:12:26 AM
Forgot the Dellorto labels.


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: fay66 on 02 July, 2018, 04:30:52 PM
I had the same block/crankcase gasket failure on the GTE which was remedied by the modification you mention Brian and on the GT engine there were rollpins already there on disassembly.
The Dellorto DHLB35 carbs I have were originally sold and jetted for Fulvias with the 1298cc  818.302 engine but I have reduced accelerator, slow running and air corrector jets as marked on the attached original carb labels and running around in the car this morning - my second drive in it! - it seems to be fine.
Regarding the electric fan, I am going to fit a bulb type thermostatic controller but I might well go back to the original fen belt driven electric fan as to my mind, it is less likely to give trouble in the future.

The wing mirrors are beginning to grate with me already but I think they will look slightly better rotated through 180 degrees. Perhaps round mirrors in the same overall style would look more appropriate or maybe I just fit the ARCA mirrors and accept the fact that they might look better but they wont actually improve rear vision?

Chris   u
Chris,
How about a angled wedge under the base to project the arm further over,? Then round mirrors with an offset pin so the mirror itself project's further out, might not gain you a lot but it might make them acceptable to use.
Round mirrors will look better than the current wedge shape, if any of this doesn't sort the problem to an acceptable level, then I'd fit the ARCA mirrors rather than start on the body.
Brian
8227  8)


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: simonandjuliet on 04 July, 2018, 06:44:43 PM
Very nice - want it !


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: Jai Sharma on 09 July, 2018, 08:41:25 PM
That looks very lovely indeed!


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 18 July, 2018, 03:13:08 PM
The GT picked up a couple of paint scratches in transit from Portugal to the UK in the artic where loose body panels and/or packing obviously rubbed the lower half of the drivers door and also the leading edge of the bonnet.
For jobs like these I use a very local Carrozzeria run by two cousins and they were happy to sort these oput whilst we were on holiday in Tuscany last week. The car is Lancia Blue, a Max Meyer colour according to the sticker in the glove box and the paint appears to have not faded over the years. However the bodyshop had trouble matchi8ng the colour particularly getting the correct quantity of red and green in the mix!
We agreed that none of us wanted the bonnet completely repainted so just the leading edge was done  ( there are no rust issues with this car whatsoever - its like new) but the whole drivers door was painted as the scratches were below the trim but there was a small dent above the trim.
The new paint is indistinguishable from the old original paint so we are all happy.

The rear stainless steel bumper had picked quite a dent in the area of the lh bumper iron sadly because of careless handling here (by the new owners)  on arrival from Portugal and whilst there were perfect used bumpers in the spare parts which accompanied the car, I had already sold them to fellow S1 Berlina owners in the UK before the damage was done.
New OE bumpers are always available for around 250 so it wasn't the end of the world and my experience of trying to reshape damaged SS bumpers is that this are very difficult because of springiness.
However the cousins said they would try. They removed the bumper them removed the iron and straightened that which was relatively easy. Then they unwelded the brackets which are part of the bumper, straightened the bumper with hammers then polished it, rewelded the brackets and refitted it. There is now no evidence of any prior damage.

All of this work was done really well, pleasantly and economically.

Having driven the car a little more, I find it is a taut very responsive car but I am unhappy with the apparent play in the steering particularly when lifting off the throttle when the car changes direction. I know this is ususlly the idler (which I have a new one of as well as a set of steering arms) but I cant detect any play in it and becuase th car has only done 33k miles I find it hard to believe that either the idler or steering box for that matter is sufficiently worn to cause the problem.
So as soon as I have the time, I will investigate this further and report back.

The electric radiator fan which is a 1970s model has a wierd thermostat and controller (and a manual override in the passenger compartment) which I dont trust so I have bought a more modern thermostatic controller with a bulb which sits in the tophose which I will fit after the weekend but to be honest unless I am 100% happy with this setup I will go back to the somewhat noisy belt driven fan which I have ready on the bench in anticipation.

And the only other o/s job I am aware of at present is the need to remove the ugly brackets in the wheelarches where mudflaps were fitted. These will leave some holes which I will be able to plug neatly and disguise with schutz.

Further updates to follow.
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: fay66 on 19 July, 2018, 12:08:31 AM
Chris, thank you for your very interesting update, especially for Series 1 Berlina owners :)
How unfortunate that you damaged the bumper after selling the spares, ( currently sitting in my shed awaiting collection in August by new owner), wish I had someone like your men, as they seem to be very skilled, the bumper being made up of a centre and two ends welded together can't be the easiest thing to work on, Fay came with one end dented and eventually the end fell off!
I've never had the heart to remove the lovely, work of art, the mechanical fan and it's pillar, even though it is noisy!
It must be lovely to drive an unrestored  low mileage Berlina, although Fay only had 27,000 Miles on the clock she'd stood for 21 years, and needed restoration, so my first experience of driving her would no doubt have been different to yours.
Brian
8227 8)


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: lancialulu on 19 July, 2018, 04:33:13 AM
Re steering issues , perhaps it could be a rod end which can present same symptoms?


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 19 July, 2018, 03:44:22 PM
I know we all like pictures so here are the 'after' photos of last weeks excellent local bodyshop work. Unfortunately I only have one 'before' photos which is of the bonnet abrasion taken on June 30th ..... probably because I was a little upset by the 'in transit' deep scratches on the door and even more upset about the self inflicted rear bumper damage. The only good news is that the car didn't hit Jacky on its graceful roll into our solid boulder wall!
The bumper damage was very deep and the bumper iron was very distorted but the bumper itself didn't touch the paintwork.
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 19 July, 2018, 04:02:33 PM
Regarding the sloppy steering issue, today I removed the 3 steering arms and ascertained that neither the steering box nor the idler box have any perceptible play (which is what I expected and of course hoped for not wanting a big job in the current heat which is in the high 30's from 10.30am till around 6pm).

I have always found it a little difficult to identify degrees of play in steering joints and I well remember a story  in the 70's about a Fulvia, one of whose steering joints either broke or popped out going over a hump-backed bridge at speed resulting in quite an accident with severe damage. And this car had been services and MOT'd the previous week!! The badly worn sealed ball joint was missed when the suspension was hanging and also under load.
So I replaced all 3 arms with NOS spares which I have on the shelf and the problem has completely disappeared I am pleased to say. I am not sure why sealed ball joints should wear out after only 33k miles.
We now have a car with precise, unweighted steering with no pull accelerating or decelerating around bends just as a Fulvia should be.

The new brake pads and discs are beginning to bed in nicely and as the car is on new tyres and Konis (but with standard Berlina springs) its quite chuckable.  Certainly a Fiat 500 Nuovo tried to keep with me round a large roundabout locally and got a shock earlier this afternoon.


I still have a to-do list but its getting shorter and the car will be being driven daily now by us both. My test driver, Jacky, is truly excellent at identifying what isn't right when driving an old car ( which can actually be a little annoying on occasions as you might imagine) whereas I tend to drive around the problem so between us we get things sorted properly in the end.
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: GG on 19 July, 2018, 05:41:50 PM
Pretty sweet. Thanks for the updates.


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: Jaydub on 23 July, 2018, 05:48:20 PM
 Hi Chris
"www.holden vintage and classic" sell a good range of mirrors and stems with curved/angled stems that would move the mirror vision outwards.

You might find something suitable.

John


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 23 July, 2018, 06:55:26 PM
Thanks John,
I already have one nice period ARCA mirror and have just sourced a 2nd one so I will fit those and see how I get on.
Today I have driven a about 30 miles in the GT and all good. The engine seems to pull exceptionally well ( I fitted new valves and built the head up carefully) and there are no leaks although I have fitted a temporary inline fuel filter between the tank and the mechanical fuel pump because when I looked at the fuel opump yesterday there was a little rubbish in its filter. I hope to remove this inline filter when I change all the flexible fuel pipes to semi transparent blue tint CAVIS plastic pipe with spring clips in a week or two.
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: stanley sweet on 25 July, 2018, 09:52:57 AM
Are there any advantages to the blue fuel lines over rubber or do you prefer them for an original look?


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 25 July, 2018, 02:52:45 PM
There are two reasons which make me want to NOT use rubber fuel lines on the Fulvias Stanley.

The first is originality - as far as I am aware they fuel lines in the engine bay were green tinted transparent plastic secured with neat wire clips which are removed with pliers. Over time the plastic hardens and discolours but I have never had any leaks from old pipes. I have ordered some new wire clips and I have new CAV Fuel pipe....but blue tint (as Alfa Romeo of the 60's?) so when I am certain that there is no more debris being picked up my the disposable inline filter I will remove it, change over all the pipes and just rely on the OE FISPA inline filter with repaceable filter which is fitted in the engine bay on the rh inner wing.

However the main reason I want to remove the black rubber fuel pipe is that over the last 10 years I have had 2 instances of fabric covered 'proper' rubber fuel pipe (which I had fuitted less that 5 years earlier) cracking and spraying fuel out when under pressure. You couldn't see the cracks because of the fabric covering and I presume this is all to do with modern fuels and their additives. In both cases the offending fuel pipe was on an Aurelia with an electric pump and correctly adjusted Malpassi pressure regulator/filter and in both cases the fuel was spraying onto the rh exhaust manifold and spark plugs.....so not good.

I obviously don't want plastic pipe on our Aurelias so these days I use a 'naked' thick wall rubber petrol pipe and I haven't had any problems with that but I do inspect the engine bay fuel pipes regularly and carefully for deterioration which of course if there will be coming from inside the pipe, not the outside.With this sort of rubber pipe I dont use jubilee type clips (because they are ugly, non-original and cut into the pipe) but rather either the rollpin type (as fitted OE by Lancia and FIAT and Mercedes of the period ) or the flat fuel pipe clamps which have a nut and bolt for tightening and which dont cut into the pipe when tightened.

Chris



Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: stanley sweet on 25 July, 2018, 08:43:40 PM
That's interesting stuff Chris. I don't trust fabric covered either or the type with the flexible woven metal covering.  I have straightforward plain rubber at the moment which I check regularly. I did have the clear pipe linking the cards originally until I was offered a totally rebuilt set of cards for free - an offer not to be turned down. Can you provide any links for the pipe and various clips?  I know Simon Ingman had trouble finding roll pin clips at one point.


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 26 July, 2018, 03:43:10 AM
The petrol pipe came from the following :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-METRO-TUBO-BENZINA-TIPO-CAVIS-7x12-EPOCA-7886/312149969066?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

And the clips for the pipe came from Highway Motorcycles in the UK.
Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: fay66 on 26 July, 2018, 08:05:13 AM
The petrol pipe came from the following :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-METRO-TUBO-BENZINA-TIPO-CAVIS-7x12-EPOCA-7886/312149969066?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

And the clips for the pipe came from Highway Motorcycles in the UK.
Chris
Chris,
I see on ebay there is a green 7x12 hose that says although not cavis, it is of same quality,
Brian
8227  8)


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: stanley sweet on 26 July, 2018, 08:33:59 AM
Thanks for the links Chris. Just noticed my post referred to 'cards' not 'carbs'. I do wish my phone would stop thinking it's cleverer than a human.


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: nistri on 27 July, 2018, 07:26:32 AM
Advisable to check that transparent petrol lines are fully compatible with modern petrol, Andrea


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: stanley sweet on 27 July, 2018, 09:56:59 AM
I've found original Cavis pipe on OKP.de. As Andrea says, beware of quality - I've found some stories on forums of tubing collapsing etc. Probably meant for a fish tank. Now to what could be a dumb question - the tubing is 7 x 12. Do I buy 12mm clips or slightly smaller?  Or is a 12mm clip made to provide tension on a 12mm tube? I'm talking about the spring type that needs pliers to open.


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: nistri on 27 July, 2018, 10:43:48 AM
Personally I would use modern, broad band clips. Safety is an important issue, Andrea


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: stanley sweet on 28 July, 2018, 09:06:31 AM
I'll probably use the flat type that doesn't cut into the tube as Chris mentioned.


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 01 August, 2018, 06:50:04 AM
I am getting close to having dealt with all the (now small)  outstanding issues with the GT.
Yesterday the 2nd lovely ARCA wing mirror arrived so I fitted these in the afternoon as those on the car when it arrived were aesthetically not to my taste.
 Also the mirrors on the car are in the wrong position I feel being not quite far enough forward and more importantly being too inboard. They were bolted very much to the inside of the wing whereas those on out GTE are bolted to the outer curve of the wings (and further forward) and are quite effective.

Of course I am stuck with the mounting position so when fitting the ARCA mirrors I cut a wedge shaped piece of rubber for each mirror for under the foot to tip it outwards and this has proved to give a tolerable view to the rear from each mirror without looking odd.

I have also fitted a modern thermostat to the electric fan with the bulb sitting in the top hose of the radiator.
In fitting this I was able to remove the ugly yellow wires which ran to the strange temperature sensor and stat mounted on water part of the inlet manifold and under the dashboard. The fan is operated through a relay and has a manual switch under the das with an 'on' light.


The jobs left to do which will wait now till our next visitors have departed are:
1.  find the poor connection in the steering column/wheel as the centre push headlamp flasher works intermittently.
2. Remove the mudflap brackets from each wheel arch and plug the holes.
3. Remove the temporary inline fuel filter and fit new fuel pipes in the engine bay.

In putting miles on the car I find the driving experience is much more different to our GTE than I expected and I am not entirely sure why.
The GT feels more nimble even though it has less power (in theory), less effective brakes (GTE has servo assisted which gives more pedal travel and a slightly less solid pedal) and a standard 40mm exhaust with cast iron manifold ( unlike the GTE which has a big bore 50mm Coupe exhaust and manifold which should give a few bhp).

The final drive on the GTE is slightly taller which should give more relaxed autostrada driving at 130kph but it has the mechanical fan which is noisy and which absorbs some power so even though the GT is revving higher its a little quieter.
The GT (1231cc) is on new Dellorto 35DHLBs whereas the GTE (1298cc)  is on Solex 35s and both engines are in good condition.
Both cars have excellent bodies above and below and the rubber subframe mounts are in excellent condition ( those on the 65k mile GTE were renewed by the previous owner a short while before the car came to us  whereas those on the 33k mile GT are the originals. The floor gearchange on the GT feels 'younger' than that on the GTE but the difference is marginal.

Both cars have their original springs but the GT has Konis all round which I think is probably quite a significant difference to the standard ones on the GTE.


Having said all of the above, they are both very satisfying to drive short and long distances and both put a smile on our and our visitors faces particularly when reminded that they are > 50 years old! 

Chris


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: DavidLaver on 01 August, 2018, 05:57:13 PM

Interesting compare and contrast, in particular as its between two such good examples.  When reading classic car "GTV vs Fulvia" or some such I often wonder how much is "the example" and how much "the type".

Mirrors look good.

In terms of "go" is it a question of power vs torque?


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: frankxhv773t on 01 August, 2018, 09:34:51 PM
The type or the example puts me in mind of an article many years ago comparing sporting estates, Volvo P1800 ES, Jaguar XJS Eventer, Jensen GT and Beta HPE. The three non Lancias were all pristine, cherished cars owned by leading members of their respective clubs. The HPE was a well worn car used by its' owner as a "mobile skip" during a house restoration. Also, one of the comparisons was how much of a collection of antique furniture could be fitted in the car as shown by a set of photos. The only one that swallowed all the items was the HPE but that passed without comment in the write up. I felt they completely missed the point of them being estates.


Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 09 October, 2018, 09:24:22 AM
Well, we have now done nearly 1,000 miles in the Fulvia GT over the summer without incident and it continues to provide excellent driving in our locality being narrow, nimble and roomy with plenty of room for 4 adults (we have lots of visitors, most of whom are not into old cars so we inflict our B12 and Fulvia Sedans on them to 'show them the way').
I know the Sedan is nowhere near as highly regarded as the Coupe and Sport variants but the reality is that they are very 'chuckable' with super roadholding and yet also very versatile capable cars.

There have inevitably been one or two bits of fettling needed over the summer such as a badly seated radiator bottom hose which dripped and poor horn/headlamp flasher contacts down by the steering box but these are to be expected and have been easy to deal with.
 I still haven't polished the car as washing it occasionally coupled with the very heavy dews we have at this time of the year seem to bring the paint back up when a flexi blade is used to remove the water.

The aftermarket electric fan thermostat (with a bulb which sits in the top of the radiator/ top hose) which I fitted (replacing the very strange contact stat fitted on the car in the late 80's)  seems fine and I am now seriously considering fitting an electric fan to our GTE if I can find one at a reasonable price.
I have always seen aftermarket electric fans as potential problem areas but in the Fulvia'a case the benefits are particularly reduced noise (allowing one to hear the engine and exhaust note) and slightly increased power with quicker response from the engine.
I also intend fitting new (preferably Koni) shock absorbers to the GTE as these are on the GT.
The GTE and GT share the same springs but our GT seems to sit on the road slightly more to our liking with a firmer ride so it must be the dampers?
Chris




Title: Re: I said I would never buy another Fulvia Berlina......
Post by: chriswgawne on 19 October, 2019, 12:19:06 PM
Well, as you will have seen elsewhere on the Forum, our Fulvia GT has now gone to a new owner who I am sure will look after it AND drive it.
We were simply not using it enough to warrant keeping it and yet I was still somewhat reluctant to see it depart for Languedoc early Thursday morning.
Its been a great car to work on and bring back to life and when I drove it last week to fill up with fuel and check the fluids I was reminded what a good example of the make and model this example is.
I look forward to reading about the car in Simon's future posts.
Chris