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Author Topic: Fulvia Coupe door glass removal.  (Read 3188 times)
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nthomas1
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« on: 17 November, 2017, 01:55:59 PM »

Now back from Spain, Iím working on the Fulvia again.  Iíve got the vehicle scheduled to go in for its major welding tasks at the end of next week.  Iíd planned to work on the doors while the body was at the workshop for welding but Iíve been asked to put the doors back on to help with alignment of the new outer sills and repair panels. So Iíve been working today on stripping the doors down in order to remove the glass in advance of re-fitting the doors to the body shell and that has given rise to some questions.

Iíve removed the door lock mechanisms, and Iíve removed the rear guide channels, and Iíve removed the fasteners from the front guide channels (which protrude above the door and form the rear portion of the quarter panels).   The next steps are removing the quarter panel assembly and extracting the main window glass.

Thereís quite a lot of information on the various blogs on door glass but they are mostly focused on the re-assembly process.

Question 1 is how does the quarter light assembly come free?  I canít see any more fastenings other than the two that Iíve removed.  Should the whole quarter light assembly just pull free?  Iím reluctant to apply too much force until Iíve got some advice!  Thereís quite a lot of sealant around the lower edge of the quarter light and that may be all thatís keeping it in place. 

Question 2 is how do I then remove the main glass panels?  The lower edge of the glass seems to be a push fit into a U-shaped strip that is attached to the winder mechanism.  Does the glass need to be forced out of the U-shaped strip? Iím hoping not, as it may be difficult to re-fit in the same position.  Or, should I next remove the three screws that hold the window winder mechanism in place, and then extract the glass with winder assembly attached?  Can the glass with winder assembly attached then be removed through the rectangular aperture at the bottom of each door?   Does the spindle have to be removed from the winder assembly?

Any advice would be appreciated.   Also, does anybody know if replacement rear guide channels can be obtained - or do I need to refurbish the ones Iíve removed?  As you can see from the second photo they are in poor condition.


* a.JPG (2080.82 KB, 3264x2448 - viewed 81 times.)

* b.JPG (1620.89 KB, 2835x2126 - viewed 69 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
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« Reply #1 on: 18 November, 2017, 02:12:23 PM »

After some more investigation I've discovered how to disconnect the quarter light assembly.  It would appear that there should be 3 bolts holding the lower edge to  brackets that bridge the gap in the top of the door.  Only one bolt was in place on my car and I've removed it.  The quarter light assembly with front rail attached now pivots freely but I can't figure out how to withdraw it from the door.   It will not lift out vertically with the glass parallel to the door as the welded on brackets that are used to fasten the lower part of the runner project into the door.  It may be that the assembly can be twisted through 90 degrees but I can't do that with the main glass panel still in place.  Puzzled!!
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
lancialulu
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« Reply #2 on: 18 November, 2017, 02:14:43 PM »

After some more investigation I've discovered how to disconnect the quarter light assembly.  It would appear that there should be 3 bolts holding the lower edge to  brackets that bridge the gap in the top of the door.  Only one bolt was in place on my car and I've removed it.  The quarter light assembly with front rail attached now pivots freely but I can't figure out how to withdraw it from the door.   It will not lift out vertically with the glass parallel to the door as the welded on brackets that are used to fasten the lower part of the runner project into the door.  It may be that the assembly can be twisted through 90 degrees but I can't do that with the main glass panel still in place.  Puzzled!!

Take the glass out first....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
nthomas1
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« Reply #3 on: 18 November, 2017, 02:32:37 PM »



Take the glass out first....
[/quote]

Tim - the reason I'm trying to get the quarter light out is so that I can then remove the door glass.  I can not see how the main door glass can be disconnected from the winder mechanism in order to remove it first!
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
lancialulu
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« Reply #4 on: 18 November, 2017, 03:32:49 PM »

Norm its bolted to the mechanism - It is a while since I messed with mine but you definately need to take the glass out first to get the quarterlight out. Bear in mind the fixing at the bottom of the quaterlight rail is critical to get the windows aligned when you put it all back together.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
nthomas1
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« Reply #5 on: 18 November, 2017, 04:22:08 PM »

Norm its bolted to the mechanism - It is a while since I messed with mine but you definately need to take the glass out first to get the quarterlight out. Bear in mind the fixing at the bottom of the quaterlight rail is critical to get the windows aligned when you put it all back together.

It looks like the winder mechanism is not bolted to the rail along the bottom of the main glass panel.  There are two wheels that run in a horizontal channel.   Other blogs say that the window should be turned through 90 degrees with the window half out of the opening at the top of the door.  I can see how, if that could be done, the two wheels could be slid back so that they disengage from the horizontal channel.   However, I am unable to turn the window assembly because the front channel (which extends vertically to form the rear of the quarter light) is blocking it.  Although I've disconnected all of the fastenings from the front channel and from the quarter light I can not withdraw it as the bracket that one of the two retaining screws fastens to is blocking it. It will tilt backwards or forwards but only about 20 degrees.

I'll put my thinking cap on and try again in the morning when I've got daylight back again.  I'm hoping somebody who has done the job more recently will comment.  fingers crossed.
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
lancialulu
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« Reply #6 on: 18 November, 2017, 05:18:48 PM »

Norm its bolted to the mechanism - It is a while since I messed with mine but you definately need to take the glass out first to get the quarterlight out. Bear in mind the fixing at the bottom of the quaterlight rail is critical to get the windows aligned when you put it all back together.

It looks like the winder mechanism is not bolted to the rail along the bottom of the main glass panel.  There are two wheels that run in a horizontal channel.   Other blogs say that the window should be turned through 90 degrees with the window half out of the opening at the top of the door.  I can see how, if that could be done, the two wheels could be slid back so that they disengage from the horizontal channel.   However, I am unable to turn the window assembly because the front channel (which extends vertically to form the rear of the quarter light) is blocking it.  Although I've disconnected all of the fastenings from the front channel and from the quarter light I can not withdraw it as the bracket that one of the two retaining screws fastens to is blocking it. It will tilt backwards or forwards but only about 20 degrees.

I'll put my thinking cap on and try again in the morning when I've got daylight back again.  I'm hoping somebody who has done the job more recently will comment.  fingers crossed.

Norm

If you have access to parts book you will see what needs to be undone. I am away so cannot get to my book. Lower the window to the access hole and I am sure there is a way to disconnect from the regulator. Re channels Yes you can get the black furry  u channel - some are no good as they flod into the channel ending up trapping the window instead of giving it a smooth channel to slide in. You need to clean and repaint the metal bit though. The two Italian rubber companies -  Elvesio and Cignoti (?) sell the correct stuff.
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
nthomas1
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« Reply #7 on: 18 November, 2017, 05:41:43 PM »



Thanks Tim.  I've studied the parts manual in great detail.  I can see how the mechanism disconnects - provided the winder mechanism can be slid along far enough for the wheels to drop out of the horizontal channel. That is confirmed by other blogs.  The problem I have is that I can't angle the window enough to slide the winder mechanism off.  Other blogs talk about turning the window assembly through 90 degrees - but I can't do that because it's blocked by the front channel.  As I said, I'll try again tomorrow.

With regard to the condition of the vertical channels mine are rusted through in places and close to disintegrating.  I'm wondering if replacements can be sourced.  I doubt it.  I may have to look at having new ones fabricated!
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
frankxhv773t
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« Reply #8 on: 18 November, 2017, 07:19:00 PM »

The glass isn't screwed into the lifting channel as on the Flaminia is it? The 3rd and 4th posts from last on my Birmingham Berlina thread in Flaminias has lots of pictures of door glass dismantling.


* window lift chanel rust.JPG (3311.01 KB, 3456x2304 - viewed 103 times.)
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nthomas1
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« Reply #9 on: 18 November, 2017, 07:37:58 PM »

The glass isn't screwed into the lifting channel as on the Flaminia is it? The 3rd and 4th posts from last on my Birmingham Berlina thread in Flaminias has lots of pictures of door glass dismantling.

No Frank - there's no sign of anything attaching it to the lifting channel.  I didn't want to ease it out as I'm not sure I'd be able to get it back in the correct longitudinal position.  Other blogs have said that the glass can be withdrawn with the lifting channel still in place.
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
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« Reply #10 on: 19 November, 2017, 01:26:59 PM »

Spent a long time studying the interior of the door this morning and still can't figure out how to remove the door glass.  Here's a picture of the window lift mechanism, with the window at the bottom of its travel.  

Previous forum threads on this subject state that the glass should not be removed from the lifting channel.  They talk about rotating the window assembly 90 degrees with the glass half out of the opening in the top of the window in order to slide the winder assembly off the lifting channel.

If the winding assembly could be moved a couple of inches to the left, the left roller would come off the left end of the lifting channel , and the right roller would drop through the gap in the middle of the bottom edge of the lifting channel - which I've pointed out in the photo below.

If I try to rotate the window assembly clockwise it fouls against the front vertical runner.   If I try to rotate it anti-clockwise it fouls against the quarter light assembly.   As I've explained above. the quarter light assembly with front vertical runner attached can not be removed with the window glass in place - so I'm snookered.

If I could move the winder assembly a few inches to the left it would allow it to be slid off the left end of the lifting channel, but the spindle for the winder stops it being moved.  The door is deep enough for the winder assembly to be pushed back into the door cavity - but only if the front vertical runner is removed.  So again, snookered.  

I must be missing something obvious and hopefully somebody on the forum will spot it.   I have only a couple of days before the body goes to the welding shop and I really want the glass out before then!  







* IMG_0711 copy.JPG (2296.81 KB, 3264x2448 - viewed 64 times.)
« Last Edit: 19 November, 2017, 01:30:30 PM by nthomas1 » Logged

Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
lancialulu
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« Reply #11 on: 19 November, 2017, 03:42:11 PM »

surely you must be able to seperate the glass from the regulator mechanism?? see this coupe galss....

https://www.ebay.it/itm/vetro-sportello-per-Lancia-Fulvia-Coupe/322891981307?hash=item4b2ddca1fb:g:YAAAAOSwImRYTECV
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
nthomas1
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« Reply #12 on: 19 November, 2017, 05:36:51 PM »

I've been using the Lancisti conversation pasted below as a guide to removing the door glass from my S2 Coupe.  As you will see from the posts above I've had no success so far.  The Lancisti blog implies that the Quarterlight assembly (which includes the front vertical runner) should be removed from the door first.  After that, it is suggested that the window assembly can be angled to slide the rollers on the window winder arm off the lifting channel that is attached to the bottom edge of the window glass. The window glass, with lifting channel attached, can then be withdrawn through the slot at the top of the door.

My problem is that I can not see how the Quarterlight assembly can be withdrawn.  I have disconnected the two screws that hold the vertical guide portion of it to the inner door, and I have removed the screws that hold the base of the Quarterlight to the top of the door.  The Quarterlight assembly is now loose and I can lift it up about an inch and  I can angle it backwards and forwards, but I can not figure out how to withdraw it from the door.  The bracket on the side of it that is used for attaching it to the inner door prevents it being pulled vertically.  Has anybody done this and can advise what I need to do?

*********************************************************************
Lancisti Thread:
Fingers
Can anyone please shed some light on the best way to remove the main window in a series 2 coupe door, do I need to get the quarter light out first, do I need to seperate the glass from the winding mechanism? What's the best way? Any info appreciated as I can't find the factory workshop manual I had.
Ncundy
There are two guide brackets - one at the front that runs top to bottom and includes the front quarter light and one at the back that runs from the bottom to just below the top of the door. If you remove the back one (two screws) you should be able to remove the aluminim U-section with the glass attached from the winding mechanism and lift it upwards out of the door. You can get at this by taking the door panel off and winding the window to its lowest position, and accessing through the cutout in the door. You probably will not be able to remove the glass from the U-section in the car as it is very tight.
Fingers
Yeah sorry, should've been more detailed. The front and rear tracks are released and so is the winding mechanism, there just doesn't seem to be a hole big enough to take the assembly out of the door, I'm assuming there's a specific method of twisting and maneuvering the fwd quarter light and window winder/window assy to get them out.
Fingers
Got the quarter light out, slipped out easily seeing as I'd had a day away to refresh. Window not so easy still
Fingers
Ok got it, just incase anyone wants to know, the window and track slid quite easily off the raise/lower mechanism with the window assy turned 90 degrees to normal with the window half out the opening at the top, ad a good look with a torch and mirror and figured it out, must've been tired last night.
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
roddy
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« Reply #13 on: 19 November, 2017, 11:43:45 PM »

It is quite a number of years since I have been into a coupť door, but I do recall that you had to undo the three set-screws holding the splined winder mechanism in place. Then push the splined end into the door aperture. You can then wind the mechanism to the bottom of the door whilst the glass is held at the top of the door, and  slide it out of the captive channel on the glass.  The glass then lifts out the top, after turning it on its end.  Yes, the rear slide channel need to be removed, and the quarter window one, loosened at the bottom.

Now for the disclaimer! :- it is probably 10+ years since I did a coupť one, but the Zagato of more recent times (they are quite different), so I hope my memory is not playing tricks.  Unfortunately I've reached an age when it can....... So this may not be of help - sorry.

You write about fabricating a new piece of rear channel - good luck.  It has a slight curve in it, and the brackets are handed right and left side.

Regards -
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Roddy Young
Dunfermline, Fife

1970 Fulvia Sport S1 1.3S
1972 Fulvia Sport 1600
nthomas1
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« Reply #14 on: 20 November, 2017, 03:39:00 PM »

It is quite a number of years since I have been into a coupť door, but I do recall that you had to undo the three set-screws holding the splined winder mechanism in place. Then push the splined end into the door aperture. You can then wind the mechanism to the bottom of the door whilst the glass is held at the top of the door, and  slide it out of the captive channel on the glass.  The glass then lifts out the top, after turning it on its end.  Yes, the rear slide channel need to be removed, and the quarter window one, loosened at the bottom.

Eureka!!!

Thanks Roddy - you provided the missing piece of information with regard to pushing the winder spindle back through its hole.  When I tried this before it would not seem to go back into the doors cavity.  That's why I though the front runner would need to be withdrawn first.  Taking your advice I used some force to tuck the spindle under the edge of the hole - and there was JUST enough room for it between the inner door skin and the vertical front channel (which was pushed back as far as it would go towards the outer door skin - enabled by the two retaining screws having been previously removed).

Once the spindle was inside the door cavity I was able, with some pressure, to move the entire window winder mechanism laterally a couple of inches towards the leading edge of the door.  That was enough to disengage the two rollers on the winder mechanism from the lifting channel connected to the bottom of the window glass.

The window glass with lifting channel still attached could then be pulled through the gap in the top of  the door.  The winder mechanism was extracted through the large rectangular opening at the bottom of the door.  The quarter light assembly with front vertical runner attached was then tilted toward the trading edge of the door, and then twisted (vertically) through 90 degrees to allow the assembly to be pulled up through the gap in the top of the door.

I'll summarise the entire process and post it on the forum before I forget.  That may help others as mechanically inept as me!
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
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