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Author Topic: I said that I would never buy another Fulvia ....  (Read 20264 times)
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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #225 on: 02 May, 2019, 04:35:49 PM »

Once the block was fitted and torqued down I fitted the pistons and rods.

In order to torque down some of the block bolts, I used a crow's foot spanner on the torque-wrench. As "Bainsey" commented, these aren't always done correctly ! Without teaching grandmother to remove her teeth etc, you need to remember to fit the crow's foot at 90 to the torque-wrench axis otherwise the bolts get over tightened

NB. The "hidden" bolt on the block is longer on the 1600 because the block is thicker due to increased stroke on the HF

I have shown the 2 different timing chain tensioners, the 1600 have a longer "slipper" and longer chain 118 links vs 116 from memory

I did the same plastigage check on the big ends to be sure they were correct and then fitted the pistons.

Up until now I have always fitted the rings by hand, but these rings were quite strong (or I'm getting weaker !) so I invested in some Facom ring pliers (30 ish) - it makes the job virtually risk free and very quick. Photo shows practise on old piston

Rings fitted at 120 to each other and I started with the oil ring gap towards the centre of the block because it is easier to get it fitted this way

Bigends re-fitted and torqued down (using 6 point/full hex socket) and will turn over by hand, so hopefully gaps are OK. Another small difference between the 1600 and 1300 engine is the HF big end bolts have 13mm heads instead of 12mm

May get a chance to start on the head tomorrow


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« Last Edit: 02 May, 2019, 04:44:30 PM by simonandjuliet » Logged

S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
stanley sweet
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« Reply #226 on: 02 May, 2019, 05:02:46 PM »

This is interesting to see. I'll never be doing this myself but now I have the spanner at 90 degrees to the torque wrench lodged in my brain. Do the big end bolts need retorqueing after a certain period like the head or are they torqued up just the once?
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1971 Fulvia 1.3S 'Leggera'  1999 Lancia Lybra 1.9JTD LX SW
lancialulu
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« Reply #227 on: 02 May, 2019, 08:03:55 PM »

This is interesting to see. I'll never be doing this myself but now I have the spanner at 90 degrees to the torque wrench lodged in my brain. Do the big end bolts need retorqueing after a certain period like the head or are they torqued up just the once?
No!
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
stanley sweet
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« Reply #228 on: 03 May, 2019, 07:05:06 AM »

I'd never heard of it but I was thinking about the  forces involved. I once read about the forces created when a piston reaches the top of its stroke and is pulled down again. Can't remember the figures except that it was nuts (to use a technical term).
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1971 Fulvia 1.3S 'Leggera'  1999 Lancia Lybra 1.9JTD LX SW
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #229 on: 04 May, 2019, 03:56:27 PM »

Bit more done today. Head fitted up with cams and rockers. This head has been skimmed and had big valves fitted along with guides etc, so it will be interesting to see what difference it makes.

If I can get the oil pipes remade I will fit an oil cooler. The oil filter casting is completely different to the standard (1.3 or 1.6) casting in order to take the additional pipes and radiator. I stripped the pressure relief valve and was glad I did because it was very gooey

The central tube was also very rusty (!) so I replaced it with a new one. I have several more if anyone else has the same problem

Lastly, I found a bit of under-bonnet bling in my spares .... I don't usually go for polished castings but why not. The ports have been polished as well - not too much, so should still get some swirl


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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
Jaydub
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« Reply #230 on: 05 May, 2019, 10:11:55 AM »

Great work as always Simon. I am a little curious on the bore size as the block has 82.4 written on it and the pistons are 82.56. Has the block been bored twice? The capacity now is 1607cc according to that, yes?
Keep up the great work as it will be a good reference when I start my restoration.
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1600 HF. S2.
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #231 on: 05 May, 2019, 12:18:36 PM »

Well spotted !

And I will be able to tell you later in the week because I felt the pistons were a bit tight - I could only fit a 0.05mm feeler gauge down the side, and after a chat with some of of our fellow "forumistes" I stripped it down again and will get it measured ACCURATELY and honed a touch

My verniers are just not good enough for this level of accuracy

The workshop manual quotes 0.075 - 0.095 mm for the 1600 engine

Whereas the 1300 302/303 engine is quoted at 0.055 - 0.075 mm, so quite a lot tighter

But, to answer your question,I assume it has been bored twice but I bought the block/pistons as they are , so can't be 100% sure !
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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
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« Reply #232 on: 05 May, 2019, 03:28:05 PM »

How does a tube covered in oil go rusty? Bizarre. Why does the edge of the back cylinder in the shot showing the valves look a bit 'nibbled'? Will it cause any problems with the gasket?
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1971 Fulvia 1.3S 'Leggera'  1999 Lancia Lybra 1.9JTD LX SW
fay66
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« Reply #233 on: 05 May, 2019, 08:30:56 PM »

How does a tube covered in oil go rusty? Bizarre. Why does the edge of the back cylinder in the shot showing the valves look a bit 'nibbled'? Will it cause any problems with the gasket?
Stan,
Moisture if the engine has been standing a long time?
Someone trying to prise the cam cover off by inserting a metal tool as gasket stuck?
Shouldn't cause a problem as on outside edge.
Brian
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #234 on: 06 May, 2019, 06:08:45 AM »

I'll take a photo of the tube later, but it was a mess, hence the strip down of the unit

Re head, I think that it must have had a plug melt or bit of piston rattle around in the chamber. Not so drastic as a snapped valve. But the damage is contained within the fire-ring so not too worried
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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
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« Reply #235 on: 06 May, 2019, 09:37:40 AM »

Ref. piston/bore clearance, yes you definitely need to measure the bores with a bore micrometer to make sure the bores aren`t barrel shaped, and that they are all the same size, as it`s not a given that they are. Personally I would opt for the 0.095 clearance on the skirt as you may get hotter running in your climate, and you don`t want it "nipping" up, but you don`t need me telling you that. Keep up the good work.
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fay66
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« Reply #236 on: 06 May, 2019, 02:37:25 PM »

How does a tube covered in oil go rusty? Bizarre. Why does the edge of the back cylinder in the shot showing the valves look a bit 'nibbled'? Will it cause any problems with the gasket?
Sorry I misunderstood about the damage, just had a look and I can see it now🙄
Brian
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Stan,
Moisture if the engine has been standing a long time?
Someone trying to prise the cam cover off by inserting a metal tool as gasket stuck?
Shouldn't cause a problem as on outside edge.
Brian
8227  Cool

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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
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simonandjuliet
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« Reply #237 on: 11 May, 2019, 06:39:40 PM »

Brian, some of my photos are a bit dodgy !

Been busy on the tractor this week, but managed to collect the honed block on Thursday morning , they did it very quickly and at a fair price (55 euros) so today I put it back together again

The pistons were a bit tight, I think that the previous machinist had used the "sp 0.04 " as the tolerance when they bored the block. Anyway, all set at 0.095-0.1 mm now. They are 82.56 pistons
I also fitted the timing chain and head then did the valve timing (several times !)

I have used new allen bolts for the head as many others do, just using the original pilot bolts to position the head before replacing them with allen bolts.
For non-Fulvia owners, the pilots are slightly larger diameter (approx 0.5mm) and are used to position the head and gasket more accurately before the other bolts are added. I have shown a one alongside a standard head bolt - you can see the shoulder near the threads

Fulvias were originally fitted with vernier-type camshafts, which gave a near infinite amount of adjustment enabling accurate setting , or indeed, personalised setting of overlap etc
You can just about see the different holes in the camwheel/camshaft in another dodgy photo. Later Fulvias (some S2 and S3, I think) had non adjustable, preset cams. Much easier to set up ....

If I get some time tomorrow I can finish off the oil cooler and other bits and bobs. I had new pipes made up locally. Surprisingly easy because we live in a farming community and there are a number of people who make up hydraulic and/or oil pipes




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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
lancialulu
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« Reply #238 on: 11 May, 2019, 07:15:38 PM »

Use blutack for that protractor!
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #239 on: 12 May, 2019, 08:13:48 PM »

2nd time lucky .... the previous post disappeared, so forgive me if this comes up twice - I did mention "bottom" so maybe that was the cause

But, a bit of Sunday fun. Tim suggested that I test the thermostat in the oil cooler mount so I stripped it again and took some photos this time. Some detailed ones for David L !

If someone can tell me which is the inlet side and which the outlet, that would be helpful, plus I assume that the inlet pipe goes into the bottom of the oil rad and comes out of the top ?

I boiled up a pot of oil on my garage cooker so as not to upset Juliet and the thermostat worked perfectly. Not sure if the temp was absolutely correct because I wasn't allowed to use the jam thermometer

A second question - does anyone have a source of the studs that fit the inlet manifold and hold the rubber carb mountings. They are approx 28mm long, 10mm thread, 8mm blank and then 10mm thread - all M8 ??

Finally, as promised a picture of the old rusty pipe


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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Promiscuo,S2 camioncino, S2 furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye
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