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Author Topic: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress  (Read 9306 times)
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nthomas1
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« Reply #30 on: 11 March, 2018, 10:51:42 AM »

Here are the new sills, quarter panels and mounting boxes ready to be fitted.


* IMG_8713 copy.JPG (3416.55 KB, 2797x2292 - viewed 32 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #31 on: 11 March, 2018, 07:13:09 PM »

Nice .... looking forward to seeing them go in
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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Appia Promiscuo, S2 Appia furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye S's
nthomas1
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« Reply #32 on: 12 March, 2018, 11:42:11 PM »


Any thoughts on jacking points? 

My car has only one out of four in place and it is in poor condition. The others are missing as a result of some rather botched work on the weld flanges by a former owner.  Are they better omitted, with jacking taking place elsewhere, or should they be fitted?  As I'm having new outer sills fitted I'm wondering whether to have 4 new jacking points fabricated.  If that makes sense can anybody provide decent photographs and dimensions of them?  They are just visible on one picture in TAV but there's no illustration of them.   Here's a picture of one on an HF taken at last year's AGM.   


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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
lancialulu
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« Reply #33 on: 13 March, 2018, 08:05:19 AM »

Norman I would make/remake the jacking points and the sill detail so that the car is "correct". I think I have the template for the jacking points and can email you a scan. BTW are you going to add the central membrane between the inner and outer sill? Tim
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
chriswgawne
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« Reply #34 on: 13 March, 2018, 09:17:31 AM »

Norman,
Your are doing a fine job properly on the rest of the car so please renew the jacking points (even if you don't use them).
These days I start from the premise that Lancia's engineers ( as opposed maybe to their accountants) always knew what they were doing so why try to change what was almost certainly pretty good in the first place.
And when the old car market re-adjusts downwards ( its the next thing to happen in the cycle) the cars that will hold their value best will be those which exhibit originality whether it be engine, interior or body.
I say this having gone down many expensive blind alleys in my motoring life doing exactly the opposite of what I preach these days.
Chris   
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Chris Gawne
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« Reply #35 on: 13 March, 2018, 09:48:54 AM »

Do you still have the square bits with holes underneath as well ? They are on the HF but not, I think on S1 cars. They are useful when there is a car lift available for tyre fitting etc
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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Appia Promiscuo, S2 Appia furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye S's
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« Reply #36 on: 13 March, 2018, 07:11:47 PM »

Hello Norman, I absolutely agree with Chris and Tim .... 'do it as it was' is a great maxim.
I have never worked on a Fulvia, but, from what Tim has said, assume there is an inner sill, an outer sill and a central diaphragm. If that is the case and the central diaphragm has suffered which is invariably the case, in my opinion you MUST repair it. This is a hugely important part of the vehicle's structural integrity. If you the whole assembly is not sound then using the new jacking point may well cause, at the least, local buckling of the sill. Ship and ha'porth o tar comes to mind!!

I have been enjoying your restoration saga, don't spoil it now!! Good luck!

                                                                              Andy
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nthomas1
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« Reply #37 on: 13 March, 2018, 09:56:38 PM »


Tim, Chris, Simon, Andy - thanks for the advice on the jacking points.  I will ensure that they are fitted and that originality is maintained.

Tim - thanks for the offer of the template.  Iíve sent you a pm.

Simon - yes, all four of the square locator brackets with holes in are still in place.  The first picture below shows left front, which is where the one decent jacking point is located.  The second picture shows right front, which is on a section of floor pan which is being replaced, so Iíll be careful to keep the bracket for reuse.

Andy - the S2 was factory fitted with a central membrane between inner and outer sill only at either end. It was not continued for the full length of the outer sill - so was not present for the central portion of the car below the doors.  Some people, during rebuilds, have fitted a full length membrane as Tim suggests.  I can see the value of that for strengthening cars for rallying or racing but am not sure of the added value for a road car.  I plan to talk to my welder about it when Iím next back in Lancashire.

Thanks again to you all for the advice and interest.


* Left Front - IMG_6775 copy.JPG (1815.15 KB, 3264x2448 - viewed 24 times.)

* Right Front - IMG_6752 copy.JPG (271.13 KB, 709x666 - viewed 411 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
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« Reply #38 on: 22 March, 2018, 07:33:09 PM »


Metal is being cut away to allow the new outer sills to be fitted.  There's evidence of a poor repair to the inner sill on the right rear corner of the car, so that is being rectified.  Work is proceeding slowly as my welder gets asked to do a lot of "urgent" work for motor sport teams.  That suits me as I'm not in that much of a hurry to finish, especially as I'm away in Spain such a lot, and it gives me time to work on the refurbishment of the twelve boxes of parts that have been removed from the car! Tomorrow I'm off to the Classic Car Restoration show at the NEC so have gathered a stack of hardware samples to look for while there.  There were quite a few hardware suppliers at the show last year with a lot on sale.

Last week I noticed that the flare on the right rear wheel arch was not as pronounced as that on the other three arches.  Further examination revealed a prior repair, using a lot of lead filler.  I decide to replace the wheel arch on that corner in order to get all the flares to match up.  I ordered a new one from David Ashworth ten days ago and picked it up today and dropped it with the welder who was impressed with the quality of the part - see picture below. 

I'm hoping to see a lot of progress on the sills over the next week.  On Monday I'll be helping to lift the body off the front subframe to provide access to the subframe mounting boxes. Will keep you posted. 


* IMG_2837 copy.JPG (628.27 KB, 1843x1382 - viewed 25 times.)

* IMG_2853 copy.JPG (449.12 KB, 1843x1382 - viewed 20 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
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« Reply #39 on: 27 March, 2018, 03:12:59 PM »

This morning the first new subframe mounting box was installed - on the left side of the car.  The second picture shows the jig that was welded up to ensure correct positioning of the new box. We kept the subframe under the car with the body hoisted up about 3 inches while the old box was being cut out.  That enabled us to lower the body back onto the subframe and connect the mount for final alignment prior to welding. A new inner sill section was then welded in place.  Next we're going to install the right hand mounting box before then fitting the outer sills on both sides and do some floor patching.


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* IMG_3085 copy.JPG (1190.19 KB, 2432x2583 - viewed 21 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
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« Reply #40 on: 29 March, 2018, 04:22:20 PM »

Almost ready to fit the left-side outer sill.  It was something of a horror story when we removed the old outer sill and wing sections.  The rusty bottom edges of the wings and sill had been beaten in and new metal welded over the top, with loads of lead filler all over the place.  Some sections were half an inch thick - so I'm looking forward to my new lightweight car! 


* IMG_3117 copy.JPG (1342.11 KB, 3264x2448 - viewed 16 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
lancialulu
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« Reply #41 on: 29 March, 2018, 04:48:40 PM »

cant recommend strongly enough of putting in a central membrane while all is open. huge increase in rigidity....
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia HFR
1972 1600 HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1978 Transformer HF3000 Strato's replica
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi.e.
nthomas1
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« Reply #42 on: 01 April, 2018, 08:51:04 PM »

If squeamish please look away now.  Here's some of the metal and filler cut away from my Fulvia's sills and wings last week.  The rusty lower portions of the wing sections between the door and wheel arches had been bashed in and overlaid with new metal and lead filler.  Same with the sills, with a combination of lead and polyester filler. You can see the double layers of metal in the sill picture.  That bottom piece in the first picture measures about 20 by 30 centimetres but weighs a couple of kilos!  My car will be a lot lighter when I'm finished..... superleggera Fulvia.


* a IMG_3201.JPG (788.66 KB, 1559x2079 - viewed 15 times.)

* b IMG_3203.JPG (718.81 KB, 1843x1382 - viewed 20 times.)

* c IMG_3200.JPG (498.54 KB, 1984x1145 - viewed 19 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
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« Reply #43 on: 02 April, 2018, 01:01:52 PM »

First sill strengthener fitted this morning.


* KFIH5186 copy.JPG (116.88 KB, 1189x929 - viewed 26 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
simonandjuliet
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« Reply #44 on: 02 April, 2018, 03:54:25 PM »

Did you make your own inner sill/strengthener or buy it in ?

Tempted to do the same when I get to doing the HF
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S1 Aprilia Cabrio, S2 Aprilia, S1 Appia Promiscuo, S2 Appia furgoncino, S3 Appia, R4 Sinpar, R4 Rodeo, Velosolex, R60 Tractor, Moto Guzzi Ercole, Disco 3, Mini ALL4 JCW, Moto Guzzi Cardellino 73,Honda XLV750R,Fulvia 1600 HF,1 & 1/2 Rallye S's
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