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Author Topic: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress  (Read 65626 times)
nthomas1, Paul Johnson and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
fay66
Permanent resident
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Posts: 5888



« Reply #630 on: 30 October, 2020, 12:13:16 AM »


That's an interesting suggestion Tim but I'm not sure it would work.  It's difficult to get an accurate measurement of the tube, and it looks like it's not completely circular and I can't see how I could get to it to shape it.  Also, the extension tube would have to be very close in diameter as I'm assuming the Loctite would only bridge a narrow gap.  I was thinking something with some flexibility would be better.  Could even put a short incision in it to help start it off, then push it up maybe.

Norman,
After I put Fay back on the road I had a lot of rubbish getting through from the tank, even though it had been washed out.
To the best of my knowledge the filter in my tank has never been changed in my ownership.
I bought a filter from Omicron back in the early 2000's but I've never fitted it, as I've always been a bit scared to undo the drain plug!
So I bought a filter king and fitted it on a bracket mounted on the offside inner wheel arch.
Since then I've never had a problem with dirty fuel, so I'm not too worried about not having  the filter in the tank, original equipment or not.
Brian
8227  Cool
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Own 1966 Fulvia 2C Berlina since 1997, back on road 11-1999.Known as "Fay"
1999 Suzuki Wagon R+ GL, now my daughters
2006 Renault Megane 1 5 Dci Sports Tourer
Dedra Technical Adviser
lancialulu
Press Officer
Permanent resident
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Posts: 4041



« Reply #631 on: 30 October, 2020, 09:20:32 AM »

On reflection I am with Brian with a pragmatic approach. And a spare 5 l can in the boot until you find the range of the tank. At least it wont try and suck the bottom of the tank. I always recommend (contentiously) to keep a full tank of fuel when garaging esp if the garage can reach hi humidity. Stops the tank from rusting further.... with consequential rubbish generated in the fuel system. A range of a 1.3 Fulvia is impressive on a full tank.... 
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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
Keithver
Member
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Posts: 24



« Reply #632 on: 30 October, 2020, 10:11:48 AM »

Norm, What about grabbing the wall of the pipe (as opposed to the diameter) with long nosed pliers and pulling gently. There is a lot of play in the pipe as it is only fixed where it leaves the tank. I had to manipulate the return line through the plug hole on mine, as it was blocked solid. Moving both of the pipes was easy enough
Keith
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nthomas1
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Posts: 707



« Reply #633 on: 30 October, 2020, 05:25:14 PM »


Thanks chaps for the input on the fuel tank drain plug. I tried with needle nose pliers to pull down the pipe but there was no give in it at all.  I'll experiment a bit more with flexible hose before resigning myself to leaving it as it is. 
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 707



« Reply #634 on: 30 October, 2020, 05:26:32 PM »

A bit more electrical work today.  I linked the inner lamps in to the main beam circuit so they now come on when main beams are activated rather than manually via a switch on the dashboard.   And I connected the radiator fan to the dashboard override switch Iíd wired up a while back, and the fan, which was repaired some time ago, is working nicely.

A couple of people have asked me (on Facebook) how the after-market hazard flashers have been wired, so Iíve loaded an annotated wiring diagram showing how the six wires were connected.

Finally, I removed the dashboard to have a look at the rev counter to see why the needle is off the gauge at the bottom.  

First I examined the one I removed some time ago - because it had acted erratically in the car, and the needle was off the stop.  There doesnít seem to be any physical stop on either outside or inside. I found that the needle could be gently rotated without any force to speak of being applied, if the moving part at the rear was held still. I moved it into what looks like about the right position and the needle seems to move freely from there.

The one that I had replaced it with, which Iíve just removed from the car, does not seem to act the same way.  Iíll pull it out of the binnacle tomorrow for a closer look.  I may end up reinstalling the original one.  I had removed it for two reasons: the needle was off the scale, and it had behaved erratically when I last drove the car.  The erratic behaviour may well have been a consequence of the corroded condition of the circuit board which of course has since been refurbished by careful sanding. The circuit board in the picture below is my spare one - which is actually in better condition than the original one was before I sanded it!


* a Original rev counterIMG_1118 copy.JPG (860.45 KB, 1814x1113 - viewed 18 times.)

* b - Iner Lamps.JPG (761.61 KB, 1984x1194 - viewed 19 times.)

* c Flashers.jpg (838.98 KB, 1417x1444 - viewed 17 times.)
« Last Edit: 30 October, 2020, 05:29:44 PM by nthomas1 » Logged

Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
Jaydub
Megaposter
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Posts: 276


« Reply #635 on: 30 October, 2020, 06:00:15 PM »

Hi Norm,
 for interest`s sake, my fuel pick up pipe is 8.0mm from the tank bottom.

 IMO that neoprene washer is not a good idea for the fuel tank drain plug. It may be fuel resistant but it can swell when in contact with petrol and then possibly contract when dry. I don`t think you can be sure it won`t relax its tension under varying temperatures and then the plug could loosen. I would use a copper washer, that way you can be sure its tight and remain so.
I too think it`s a good idea to have an inline filter in the fuel line, but I`m not sure about having no filtration on the pick up pipe as it could potentially block with sediment before it reaches the filter. Although in your case with a shorter pipe there would have to be lot of sediment to block reach that high!

Jaydub
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1600 HF. S2.
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 707



« Reply #636 on: 31 October, 2020, 12:03:13 PM »

Thanks John.  That nitrile disc that I referred to was intended to go on top of the drain plug with the open-bottomed cylindrical gauze filter (repurposed from an Ebay generic glass in-line filter) held tightly against it and sealed with Hylomar Blue.  I do have a copper washer to seal the plug on the outside.  All of this is a moot point if I can't extend the pick-up tube.  I just collected some 10mm fuel hose to see if that can be used to extend it.   
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 707



« Reply #637 on: 31 October, 2020, 12:08:46 PM »


I've had a good look at my original rev counter this morning - working indoors as it's blowing a gale outside.  I've set the needle at the zero mark.   I'm not sure what the "correct" position should be.  I looked at 16 dashboard pictures in my files and found 3 had the needle set at zero, six had it close to 5, and seven were around the 10 mark.  So take your pick! When the needle bounces back to its lowest setting there's no stop, and the needle is not well damped so I guess it may not always return to exactly the same position.


* IMG_1133 copy.JPG (948.19 KB, 1843x1082 - viewed 15 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
peteracs
Administrator
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 726



« Reply #638 on: 31 October, 2020, 01:21:25 PM »

Hi Norm

I would think the big question with the rev counters is how accurate they are when showing the running engine and the switched off point is of no real interest, other than looks. Can you set it up to some how calibrate it? I do not know how it works so unable to suggest a bench test method, sadly.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 707



« Reply #639 on: 31 October, 2020, 01:38:56 PM »

I agree Peter, it would be good to bench test the rev counter but I don't know how or whether that can be done.  I assumed, possibly incorrectly, that the start position for the needle would affect the accuracy of readings when under operation. I wish I knew more!
« Last Edit: 31 October, 2020, 03:05:06 PM by nthomas1 » Logged

Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nistri
Megaposter
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Posts: 338


« Reply #640 on: 31 October, 2020, 07:05:56 PM »

If you can start the engine and if you have a meter which reads revs when connected to the (-) side of the coil, you can find out if your rev counter is correct. Often it is incorrect. This is just an example of the useful instrument that reads dwell angle as well: Draper Automotive Digital Multimeter - DMM300,Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

Ardea S2
Appia S2
Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
Fulvia Coupe 1.3 S
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 707



« Reply #641 on: 05 November, 2020, 04:20:37 PM »


Andrea - thanks for that suggestion.  I'll give it some thought.
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 707



« Reply #642 on: 05 November, 2020, 04:39:28 PM »

Back to the car today after four days of decorating.

I've been thinking some more about the fuel pickup pipe problem.  I've modified one of my two drain plugs to take a gauze cartridge from a generic in-line glass filter, which cost £6 on Ebay.  It's not as long as the original one so I've shortened the two retaining arms.  But it's all to no avail if I can't lengthen my too-short pickup pipe.

I had already bought some new 8mm ethanol-proof fuel hose ready for reinstallation of my Facet fuel pump and regulator.  I tried fitting that over the pickup pipe, but it was too narrow.  So I bought a length of 10mm fuel pipe to try and that is a good tight fit.  It just goes on to the pipe, and by rotating it and applying quite a bit of pressure I could get it to overlap about 30mm.   The problem then is that the pipe is too wide at the other end to fit inside the gauze filter.  I found that I could fit a short length of my old 8mm see through fuel hose into the end of the new 10mm hose by bevelling the edge with a Stanley knife and then sanding it.  It is a very tight fit, and needed a mallet to get it in about 25mm.

So the final step is to decide how long this two-part pipe extension needs to be to fit in the gauze filter when the drain plug is refitted. I'll drill some holes in the 8mm hose so that, in the unlikely event that it slips down, the fuel flow will not be blocked.  I can then reassemble everything with a thin layer of the Hylomar Blue fuel resistant sealer.  Finally, I need to see if there's a way to grip the extension while pushing it and rotating it in place inside the tank.   It may be possible with needle nose pliers.  I'll find out tomorrow. Worth a try.



* Screenshot 2020-11-05 at 16.13.44.png (702.53 KB, 907x512 - viewed 9 times.)
« Last Edit: 05 November, 2020, 07:00:17 PM by nthomas1 » Logged

Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 707



« Reply #643 on: 06 November, 2020, 05:58:27 PM »


I've been working on the fuel system today.  The mechanical pump was blanked off by the previous owner so my plan is to use a new inline filter, Facet pump and Sytec pressure regulator in that sequence. The Facet and regulator came with the car.  I had considered getting a Filter King but I think all I would gain would be ease of changing the filter cartridge, so I'll stay with the configuration that the car came with for the time being.

I've carried out a trial fit of the various components in the engine bay.  In the picture below you can see that the hose clips are not all in position or fastened.  I'm trying to work out the best position for each component, and am trying to avoid any tight radius bends in the new hoses.  I've fitted the Facet using a new pair of rubber mounting blocks.  The inline filter will sit below and the regulator above.  I've still got to determine the best length and routing for the feed from regulator to the carb assembly.  I guess it will have to drop quite low to avoid obstructing access to the the oil filter. 


* IMG_1193 copy.JPG (576.52 KB, 1272x1375 - viewed 12 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
Jaydub
Megaposter
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Posts: 276


« Reply #644 on: 06 November, 2020, 07:19:01 PM »

Hi Norm , it may be too late if you have already fitted the fuel tank filter, but I took some dimensions from my 1600HF fuel tank. I have attached a quick drawing. It`s not too scale but may help.

Regarding pushing the extension onto your existing short pick up pipe, I would use a piece of tubing or a deep socket and pass it over the 8.00mm plastic tube and push against the 10.0mm hose. That might work.

John


* Fuel Tank pick up.jpg (61.37 KB, 480x640 - viewed 87 times.)
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1600 HF. S2.
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