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Author Topic: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress  (Read 58702 times)
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SanRemo78
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Posts: 641



« Reply #570 on: 26 September, 2020, 09:03:27 AM »

You're right Norm - missed that little detail in the number plate picture! Hope it all goes on smoothly today.
Guy
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D5177_55A
Member
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Posts: 23


« Reply #571 on: 29 September, 2020, 04:31:48 PM »

Can you tell me where you got the Sponge Extrusion for the under-bonnet front seals from. Did it come from Omicron with the L-brackets? Iíve had a trawl of the web and canít seem to see anything in that profile. Think Iíll have a go at making my own. Carís looking good by the way!
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nthomas1
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Posts: 668



« Reply #572 on: 29 September, 2020, 09:21:49 PM »

Thanks Stephen.  Yes, the foam rubber seals and metal strips came from Omicron.  The strips curve to follow the bonnet's curvature.
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
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Posts: 668



« Reply #573 on: 01 October, 2020, 07:59:15 PM »


Does anybody have a Fulvia Coupe wiring diagram that shows a 5-pin solenoid (reference 32) for Main Beam? 

My car is a 1973 S2, and the diagram in the Owner's Manual (Edition 3) shows a 4-pin solenoid.  I've looked at S3 wiring diagrams and they show 4-pin as well.

I've got my electrics working except for Main Beam - where I get nothing when I move the lever down and forward.  My sidelights, indicators and Low Beam are all working.

I'm determined to fully understand the interaction between the earthing wires to the column stalk and the three solenoids: 30 (Low Beam), 31 (Outer/Sidelights) and 32 (Main Beam).  The interaction is quite complex and the relays are far from standard, being 3-pin, 7-pin and 4 or 5-pin respectively.

I have drawn out some diagrams for my own benefit showing the interaction per my Owner's Manual wiring diagram but when examining the solenoids in the car I discovered a couple of differences: Fuse 7 feeds 30 in the wiring diagram and 32 is 4-pin, whereas Fuse 7 does not feed 30 in my car, but feeds 32, and 32 is 5-pin.

These differences don't appear to have anything to do with my car being UK RHD as those differences are in the downstream wiring and headlamp configuration and should not affect the 30/31/32 solenoid cluster. And the UK driving lights (inner lamps) are controlled from a separate solenoid under the dash which (not surprisingly) does not show on the (Continental spec) wiring diagram.


* IMG_9371 copy.JPG (560.24 KB, 1417x1294 - viewed 10 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
Neil
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Posts: 972



« Reply #574 on: 01 October, 2020, 08:54:06 PM »

Norm, I found a Sport diagram with a 5 pin relay, I have sent via mail.
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Neil   
386

1973 Fulvia S2 1.3
nthomas1
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Posts: 668



« Reply #575 on: 01 October, 2020, 09:11:19 PM »


Thanks Neil - but the wiring is different, with 6 wires from it rather than my 5.  The extra wire is a red wire (that I don't have) to the Outer/Sidelight solenoid. I'll take a look at the rest of the Low/Side/Main lighting connections on it to see if it gives me any clues.   
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 668



« Reply #576 on: 01 October, 2020, 09:24:08 PM »

Neil - looking again at the Sport diagram it seems as though Lancia used a range of options for feeding power from Fuse 7 to the Side/Low/Main relay/solenoid cluster, with links between the solenoids passing on the current:
- Sport wiring diagram: Fuse 7 feeds Main Beam Solenoid only
- S2 wiring diagram: Fuse 7 feeds Sidelight Solenoid, and separately feeds Low Beam Solenoid
- My car: Fuse 7 feeds Sidelight Solenoid, and separately feeds Main Beam Solenoid
That extra sixth wire on the Sport diagram, compared to my car,  feeds the Fuse 7 power onwards to the Sidelight solenoid.

This all makes trying to understand the interactions between these 3 solenoids and the column stalks quite difficult!
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
peteracs
Administrator
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 715



« Reply #577 on: 02 October, 2020, 06:44:57 AM »

Hi

Interesting that Lancia put relays on all the Fulvia lights. My Beta Spider has a relay on the dipped beam, but for the full beam and side lights it just goes through the switch, which is why you get burned out switches and why I am in the process of installing relays on the side and full beam lights. Guess this was one of the cost cuttings that fiat made.

Peter
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Beta Spyder S2 pre F/L 1600
Saab 9-3 1.9Tid Cabrio
Jaydub
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Posts: 263


« Reply #578 on: 04 October, 2020, 11:18:49 AM »

Hi Norm,
I have pm`d you but in case anyone else is interested.........

Sport.      Fuse 7 feeds Main beam and side lamp solenoids (relays)
Series 2.  Fuse 7 feeds Main beam, Dip/ beam and Side lamps Solenoids. They are all connected.

The extra wire on the 5 pin relay is there because it`s the change over wire between Dip and Main beam . Power leaves the relay via Pins 4 or 5, depending on main or dip. Switching is done by the side lamp relay input to pin 2 on the main beam relay. My 1600 HF has this 5 pin relay just to add the list of options!

Hope you are understanding it all gradually.

John
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1600 HF. S2.
nthomas1
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Posts: 668



« Reply #579 on: 04 October, 2020, 03:26:04 PM »


Thanks John.  Yes, it's all much clearer now.  I fully understand the way the three solenoids interact with regard to side, low and main beam operation.  Understanding how a changeover 5-pin relay works was the missing piece in the puzzle.  I've diagrammed it all out and tested the logic with brown, grey and green wire activation from the column stalk and all checks out on paper.

The only piece I haven't quite got my mind around is the white and black wire from the flasher button on the column stalk.  I can see how it earths out and activates the yellow wire from solenoid 31(sidelights) to solenoid 32 (main beam) , without activating Fuse1.  But I can't see how the lights flash without the green wire earthing to close the pin 1 to pin 2 activating circuit on solenoid 32! 

Tomorrow I'll start to track why the main beams aren't coming on.  I now know which contacts to check out.

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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
Jaydub
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Posts: 263


« Reply #580 on: 04 October, 2020, 04:44:09 PM »

Norm,  Brown wire from the slider switch closes the side lamp solenoid (33 on yours). This then connects White/Black wire ,pin56, to EARTH pin 56a. White/Black takes the earth to the lighting stalk which in the down position connects the Grey wire to earth and then when pulled toward you ,connects the Green wire to earth. All this with the slider switch on, which earths the Brown wire. Green operates main beam solenoid on Pin 1. Grey operates dip beam solenoid on Pin 1. The press button earths the Grey wire to flash the head lamps. If your Main beam isn`t working check that the Green wire contact is closing when you pull the stalk toward you.

cheers
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1600 HF. S2.
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 668



« Reply #581 on: 09 October, 2020, 05:50:00 PM »

After a week of banging my head against a brick wall with the electrics I thought Iíd get back to some trim work.

The new rear reflectors arrived so I fitted them and then fitted the stainless steel trim around the rear panel and on the boot lid.  Thatís the rear end of the car finished except for the boot lock that wonít fit - so some more head scratching there.  Original rear lights, badges and number plate lights all cleaned up well, as did replacement, but used, bumpers and stainless trim.

I had installed the exterior door trim with window scrapers (furry weatherstrips) some time back, so decided to press on with the interior scrapers.  I had bought new door top trims expecting them (naively I guess) to be straightforward to fit.  Wrong! They came slightly oversize and needing trimming and thinning in a few places as you can see from the pictures.  After some nerve wracking work with a scalpel they were shaped and ready to fit.  

I attached the scrapers using the process that had worked well on the exterior ones: Truf-Flex bonding adhesive sparingly applied, clamped with bulldog clips while curing, then three small screws to each with the excess trimmed off with a Dremel.  After 24 hours curing I fitted them to the car, applying a sheet of thick plastic as water barrier first.  Finally, I fitted the small escutcheon plates that cover the leading edge of the door.

I had planned to carry on and fit the passenger side door card as that door is already attached to the car, but I discovered that the backing hardboard is slightly over-sized and too curved at the top to slot under the stainless trim strips for their entire length - so I will have to un-staple and peel back the covering and modify them.


* a - Rear Trim 800.JPG (774.77 KB, 1559x1090 - viewed 6 times.)

* b - Shaping 540.png (525.19 KB, 794x420 - viewed 133 times.)

* c - Trimming 340.JPG (331.79 KB, 1559x559 - viewed 5 times.)

* d - Scraper. 525JPG.JPG (513.51 KB, 1550x580 - viewed 6 times.)

* e - Trimming screws 380.JPG (368.89 KB, 1134x631 - viewed 5 times.)

* f - Curing 412.JPG (402.24 KB, 1706x314 - viewed 6 times.)

* g - Fitted 404.png (394.61 KB, 680x363 - viewed 136 times.)

* h - Fitted 495.JPG (483.09 KB, 1417x1063 - viewed 5 times.)
« Last Edit: 10 October, 2020, 08:18:48 AM by nthomas1 » Logged

Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nistri
Megaposter
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Posts: 329


« Reply #582 on: 10 October, 2020, 10:08:12 AM »

Looking at the picture of your tangle of wires near the fuse box it is clear that this Fulvia does not have the standard CEAM brown electromagnetic relay (on the right side of the spaghetti junction). The unit you have was fitted to late models and is known to be very dodgy. Although difficult, I suggest you to search for the CEAM unit even if used as it can be readily opened, cleaned and it never fails, Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

Ardea S2
Appia S2
Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
Fulvia Coupe 1.3 S
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 668



« Reply #583 on: 10 October, 2020, 11:08:56 AM »


Thanks Andrea, that's interesting.  I have a spare sidelight solenoid which I had already bench tested to keep as backup.  I'll fit it and see if it makes any difference.  Worth doing anyway given your comment about reliability.  I'm also thinking of replacing the fuse rack at the same time as the connectors on this spare one are in much better condition than the one that's on the car. 


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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nistri
Megaposter
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Posts: 329


« Reply #584 on: 10 October, 2020, 03:23:54 PM »

I don't wish to increase confusion about light wiring. However, fuseboxes respond very well to careful cleaning and polishing with small files.
On my S2 cars the connections on the CEAM relay are as follows (and they do work OK). From front to back starting from the LH side:
1= red and black leads
2=grey-black
56B = I cannot see it without taking out the unit
73 = red and red leads
49= white
56b = yellow
56a= black and black leads
56= white-black

These are the original connections.
Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

Ardea S2
Appia S2
Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
Fulvia Coupe 1.3 S
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