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Author Topic: Report on (slow) S2 Coupe rebuild progress  (Read 65037 times)
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Jaydub
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Posts: 274


« Reply #330 on: 24 April, 2020, 09:43:35 AM »

Hi Norm, 3 pin flasher units earth through the fixing bolt onto the chassis. `P` is used for a warning lamp, and as the warning lamps 44 & 49 are fed from connector blocks 37 & 42 and earthed through the black wire on connector block 37, it is not used.  On the models with Hazard Flashers, the same 3 pin flasher unit is used but instead of the Red wire ( 12 volt feed) it has a Yellow wire which is the 12 volt feed from the Hazard Switch. ( 46 on the other diagram).
The Ford unit looks like Hazard unit because it appears to be 98 watt which is used handle the current from 4 x 21 watt flasher bulbs + 2 x 6 watt repeater lamps totalling 96 watts. As you say though, it may just be replacing the faulty OEM unit.

Hope that helps.
John
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1600 HF. S2.
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 704



« Reply #331 on: 24 April, 2020, 06:53:50 PM »

Thanks John - that's a huge help, and good to be talking in terms of wiring diagram reference numbers that I can recognise. 

I traced the red wire from the flasher and on my car it goes directly to the Connection Block 42.  The wiring diagram for 64, however, shows the red wire leading to 53, which is another flasher (handbrake and brake fluid low level warning), and then to 42.  Any idea why the difference?
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
Jaydub
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Posts: 274


« Reply #332 on: 25 April, 2020, 09:48:32 AM »

Norm, the red wires are  12 volt feed  from the Ignition switch (55) , Blue/Black wire, to fuse No. 9 and through the fuse to terminal block 42, which supplies the Instruments and flasher 53 and 64. The order is not important as long as they are all connected and supplied with 12 volts.
  Try to think of the Red wire as a continuous wire from the Fuse box but supplying different components on the route. As a point of interest, when doing continuity checks to trace wire sources and destinations, every component has to disconnected or else you will get a false reading through a component connected to the same source, if that makes sense.

John
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1600 HF. S2.
nthomas1
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Posts: 704



« Reply #333 on: 25 April, 2020, 06:38:53 PM »


John - that's great.  With your help I think I'm getting there.

Now I understand the way the power flows from the ignition switch through the fuse, and to the flashers in series.  I've also traced the blue/black and blue wires from the direction indicators at the corners of the car via 37 and 42 (for the indicator warning lights) to junction block 59, and thence to the stalk on the steering column.

Am I right to assume that within the stylised steering column assembly symbol there's a link (not shown) from the white wire coming in from 64 to the blue and blue/black wires that are shown near the indicator stalk?

If my understanding above is correct that is the flasher sorted.  However, for 64 to also control hazard flashing wouldn't there need to be some linkage somewhere to a separate controlling switch on the dashboard? 
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
Jaydub
Megaposter
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Posts: 274


« Reply #334 on: 26 April, 2020, 01:41:01 PM »

Norm the White wire is connected to either of those two wires by the Flasher switch internal contacts.

To operate Hazards you need to refer to the other Coupe diagram, (46) Hazards Switch and (39) Hazard Flasher unit. So you need both of those plus extra cable to connect them all. Hand brake flasher (62) normally supplies the Haz/switch pin 58 and simultaneously normal Flasher unit (63). When Hazard switch operated the supply to its pin 56 comes from the Headlamp solenoid (37) which in turn supplies the Hazard Flasher unit (39) via pin 57 which then operates the W/Lamp on pin 30b of Haz/switch.

John
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1600 HF. S2.
nthomas1
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Posts: 704



« Reply #335 on: 27 April, 2020, 07:34:26 PM »

Thanks John.  For the moment, and to keep things simple, I'll stay with the basic flasher functionality.
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 704



« Reply #336 on: 27 April, 2020, 07:35:47 PM »


I could do with some help on connectors.

The first picture below shows connections for my left rear light cluster.  Iíve checked against the wiring diagram and all seems correct.   The right rear cluster, however, has been connected without the use of a junction block - see second picture.  Three of the connectors are crimped-on insulated, and the fourth is a bullet type connector.  I have a spare 4-way junction block (picture 3) so would like to re-do the connections to match the left side.   The junction block that I have has got correct Fulvia connectors in it, and Iíve figured out how to release the male spade connectors by pushing in the locking clip with a small screwdriver.  I canít see how to remove the female connectors though.  Is there some trick to this?

My next question is where to buy the correct type of connector.  I canít seem to find them on-line, and Iím not sure what spec to be looking for.  I bought some 6mm wide ones but they seem much lighter gauge - silver finish, and maybe 0.4mm thick rathe than the approximately 0.7mm of the original gold coloured connectors, and they donít have the locking fixture. See picture 5.  I assume that using the correct thickness is important.   Also, these are the type without integrated insulation covers so they canít be crimped with my crimping tool, (picture 4), which seems to be only suitable for insulation-on connectors. 

Should I forget the junction block approach and standardise on male to female connectors of the insulation-on variety?

Any pointers would be appreciated.


* Pictures 1 and 2.png (765.97 KB, 1134x540 - viewed 72 times.)

* Pictures 3 & 4.png (690.75 KB, 1134x413 - viewed 71 times.)

* Picture 5.JPG (688.85 KB, 2268x942 - viewed 71 times.)
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
SanRemo78
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 650



« Reply #337 on: 27 April, 2020, 08:43:20 PM »

Nooooo! Get back to the original connector blocks Norm!! It will allow you to disconnect them easily and reconnect without having to go back to the wiring diagram. Disconnecting the female connector from the block (picture 3) requires a jewellers screwdriver pushed into the slot in the mating face whilst holding the block between your thumb and forefinger and pulling on the cable gently. The preinsulated type connectors need binning. Total botch job!

You can get the connector blocks, male and female terminals from Vehicle Wiring Products. They'll also sell you a decent crimp tool!

https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk

Guy
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SanRemo78
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Posts: 650



« Reply #338 on: 27 April, 2020, 08:56:47 PM »

Decent crimp tool. Yell if you want to borrow one.
https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/c-1-home/c-51-crimp-tools/c-119-non-insulated-terminal-crimping-tools/p-269-ratchet-crimping-tool

Female terminals with locking tab
https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/p-429-female-blade-with-latch?search=female%20blade

Male terminal with locking tab
https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/p-430-male-blade-with-latch?search=male%20blade

Both suitable for the connector block you have.

https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/index.php?route=product/search&search=multi%20connectors if you need more!

Heatshrink to completely over the top insulating stuff!

https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/p-606-adhesive-lined-polyolefin-heat-shrink-sleeving?search=heat%20shrink&page=2

And solder just to make sure the connection is perfect!

https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk/p-941-multicore-solder?search=solder

Guy





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nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 704



« Reply #339 on: 27 April, 2020, 09:37:54 PM »


Brilliant - thanks Guy.  I've ordered a batch of the male and female terminals, some ring terminals and some extra blocks.  I'll take you up on the loan of the crimping tool if you're sure that's ok.  I'll call by this week. 
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Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
SanRemo78
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 650



« Reply #340 on: 27 April, 2020, 10:07:45 PM »

No worries Norm - I'll dig out a relay holder too! See you soon. I'm working from home this week so just give me a call anytime!

Guy
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nthomas1
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Posts: 704



« Reply #341 on: 01 May, 2020, 06:31:55 PM »

Iíve fitted the radiator.  In fact I fitted it twice.  Got it installed and connected up all the hoses and then realised Iíd not fitted the two M5 captive nuts that take two of the three screws that hold the fan.  Tried installing them with the radiator in situ but impossible! So out it came, captive nuts fitted, and back in again.  

I installed the two horns, and connected most of the mid-engine-bay wiring to the starter motor, alternator and various ancillaries.

Iíve tracked all the wiring down the passenger side of the engine bay, largely lighting related, and checked everything against the wiring diagram.  Mostly straightforward, but I need to understand the deviations from the wiring diagram caused by the car being RHD with UK headlamp configuration.

The driver side of the engine bay is more complicated, with a bunch of relays and other devices - see third picture to sort out.  Iíve worked out from the wiring diagram that the central black device is the voltage regulator, with all 3 wires going to the alternator.  Iíll need to trace the other wires to work out what the other devices are: some sort of relays/solenoids I assume, with more of what looks like non-standard additions, especially the one with the blade fuse!.

Lots of dodgy looking connections, but Iíve bought connectors and junction blocks from Wiring Products, the company recommended by John and Guy.  Theyíre service is impressive, with very fast delivery.  They made up a couple of correct length battery cables for me as well.

So, armed with the crimping tool kindly loaned by Guy, Iíll start making all the engine bay connections good tomorrow, and continue with the detective work.


* a - Radiator.JPG (913.9 KB, 2126x1317 - viewed 63 times.)

* b - Radiator.JPG (682.13 KB, 1701x1109 - viewed 64 times.)

* c - VR etc.JPG (778.83 KB, 1559x1236 - viewed 68 times.)

* d - Electrical Parts.JPG (727.57 KB, 1843x1163 - viewed 62 times.)
« Last Edit: 01 May, 2020, 08:35:14 PM by nthomas1 » Logged

Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
nistri
Megaposter
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Posts: 336


« Reply #342 on: 02 May, 2020, 06:46:32 AM »

The voltage regulator is an aftermarket item, difficult to say if it is an electronic type (probably yes). Advisable to carry a spare one when planning a long trip. Andrea
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Andrea Nistri

Ardea S2
Appia S2
Fulvia GTE
Fulvia Sport 1.3 S
Fulvia Montecarlo
Fulvia Coupe 1.3 S
nthomas1
Rebel Poster
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Posts: 704



« Reply #343 on: 02 May, 2020, 07:09:12 AM »

Thanks Andrea. I thought it was original as it's exactly the same as one on another owner's car - see photo.  Is that just a coincidence then?

What would be the symptoms of a voltage regulator failing, would the battery stop charging?  

Any idea what the other 3 devices are? From the TAV picture it looks like 2 of them may be solenoid switches for radiator fan and main beams and horns.


* image1.jpeg (65.15 KB, 476x302 - viewed 197 times.)
« Last Edit: 02 May, 2020, 07:36:45 AM by nthomas1 » Logged

Norm Thomas
Ormskirk, Lancashire

Own:
1973 Fulvia S2 Coupe
Various modern cars
Previous Lancias: S2 Coupe and S3 Coupe in late 1970s
lancialulu
Press Officer
Permanent resident
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Posts: 4038



« Reply #344 on: 02 May, 2020, 10:17:30 AM »

The battery may stop charging due to a number of things.

1. Alternator diode pack defective
2. Alternator brushes  worn
3. Alternator commutator dirty/worn
4. Regulator faulty
5. Fan belt loose!

Have you had your alternator checked over?

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Its not the winning but taking part! or is it taking apart?
1955 Aurelia B12
1967 Flavia Vignale iniezione
1967 Fulvia 1.3HFR
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 Fulvia 1600HF
1972 1600 Fulvia Sport
1979 2500 Gamma Coupe
1988 Delta 1.6GTi
1998 Zeta
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